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| Printable Version of Topic Click here to view this topic in its original format ExChristian.Net Open Forums > Debating with Christians > X-what? Posted by: JimmyDtD May 30 2004, 12:56 PM I read something here recently, where I don't remember, and the writers identified themselves as ex-LDS and ex-Mormon, etc.. I was thinking that it would be good to have a field with that information that goes under the writer's avatar. It would really help in understanding where the writer is coming from. If I'm reading something from an ex-JW background writer, it will give me an insight into why he is writing what he is writing. Comments? Posted by: TexasFreethinker May 30 2004, 01:03 PM Not a bad idea Jimmy. TF (ex-Southern Baptist) Posted by: notblindedbytheblight May 30 2004, 01:05 PM Ex-brainwashed! No, really, ex-methodist. Posted by: chefranden May 30 2004, 01:05 PM So which sect are you, Jimmy? I'm Ex-Lutheran/Church of Church of Christ. And while you are at it offer a logical explanation for so many sects from a god that is always the same. Please, not the "man screws it up" explaination. God should have known that in advance and acted to compensate. Because he didn't, most Xians, probably including yourself, don't know that the Church of Christ is the true church and are bound for hell. A logical explaination of why god would not tell you this would be nice. Posted by: bob May 30 2004, 01:07 PM Good idea Jimmy. Perhaps a letter code; Independent Fundamental Baptist = IFB, or FUCKEDUP Posted by: Doug2 May 30 2004, 01:21 PM Ex-assembly of god (pentecostal nut), though I was big in the church unity thing and attended baptists churches to meet with people I knew. (Course I always believed it was my church that was reading the bible correctly) Posted by: JimmyDtD May 30 2004, 01:30 PM My pedigree: Born Catholic Raised United Methodist Saved first phase through Campus Crusade for Christ Saved Second phase through reading "The Late Great Planet Earth" After college attended Presbyterian Church Some independent charismatic churches Assemblies of God a little while Messianic Jewish group about 2 years Charismatic Baptist church 1 year or 2 Degree from liberal protestant seminary Word/Faith charismatic church about 17 yrs Evangelical Free church 2 years now Posted by: R.C. May 30 2004, 01:40 PM An appropriate label for xtians would be "Ex-thinkers". RC Posted by: bob May 30 2004, 01:56 PM QUOTE (R.C. @ May 30 2004, 01:40 PM) An appropriate label for xtians would be "Ex-thinkers". RC What does the bumper sticker say..."Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church". Posted by: bob May 30 2004, 01:57 PM QUOTE (JimmyDtD @ May 30 2004, 01:30 PM) My pedigree: Born Catholic Raised United Methodist Saved first phase through Campus Crusade for Christ Saved Second phase through reading "The Late Great Planet Earth" After college attended Presbyterian Church Some independent charismatic churches Assemblies of God a little while Messianic Jewish group about 2 years Charismatic Baptist church 1 year or 2 Degree from liberal protestant seminary Word/Faith charismatic church about 17 yrs Evangelical Free church 2 years now Jimmy, my goodness you have bounced around. Why? Posted by: spidermonkey May 30 2004, 02:04 PM Ex-Asshole of Gawd penteculter. Posted by: notblindedbytheblight May 30 2004, 02:05 PM QUOTE (spidermonkey @ May 30 2004, 02:04 PM) Don't you hate it when ex-christians say shit like "OMG U R JUST AS INTOL3RANT & CLOZED-MINDED AS FUNDIEZ!!!!!!!!!!111111111oneoneoneoneoneone" Because it sure bugs the shit out of me.... I love your signature! Posted by: TexasFreethinker May 30 2004, 02:06 PM QUOTE (R.C. @ May 30 2004, 04:40 PM) An appropriate label for xtians would be "Ex-thinkers". RC Or more hopefully, "pre-thinkers". Posted by: Shadfox May 30 2004, 02:08 PM Ex-Pentacostal. Then, Ex-NeoPagan, although there's no real horror story to go along with that second part like there was for Christianity. Posted by: phoenix May 30 2004, 02:41 PM ex-roman catholic Posted by: Lokmer May 30 2004, 02:41 PM In order (as far as church denomintations): Non-denom evangelical Plymoth Bretheren Presbyterian (EPC) Doctrinal development: Neo-con Evangelical Mainline Protestant Orthodox (i.e. Nicene creed) Neo-Orthodox Jesus Radical Agnostic atheist Mythicist with shades of monistic panentheism Posted by: PriorWorrier May 30 2004, 04:12 PM QUOTE (JimmyDtD @ May 30 2004, 01:30 PM) My pedigree: ... Saved first phase through Campus Crusade for Christ ... Saved Second phase through reading "The Late Great Planet ... Just wondering how many more phases of salvation it'll take? Was the first one good enough, and you're just polishing things up a little? I haven't even reached the first one yet. Posted by: PriorWorrier May 30 2004, 04:14 PM QUOTE (Lokmer @ May 30 2004, 02:41 PM) Mythicist with shades of monistic panentheism ?!? Could you please put that in plain English? Posted by: mandylibra1979 May 30 2004, 05:54 PM When I was a Christian I never agreed with the whole denominations concept. In fact, that was one of the first issues that really made me start to question everything. At the time though I never voiced these questions because I was young and I knew that no one would understand my train of thought. I grew up in the predominantly southern backwoods Baptist cult also known as the "true fundyism sect". I attended many other churches including Holiness and Pentecostal churches. I was "saved" in a Baptist church. I was baptized in both a Baptist church and a Pentecostal church. Anyhow, now I am Agnostic. Being Agnostic is easy. Hey, at least I am not a fucking hypocrite. Posted by: TruthWarrior May 30 2004, 06:49 PM Youth groups in: Assembly of God / & other Pentecostals then in the Catholic Church, then the Methodist Church After I finally grew out of youth groups I got baptized into the Church of Christ church. So I think I covered all the basic mutations of christianity. Posted by: Madame M May 30 2004, 07:00 PM QUOTE (JimmyDtD @ May 30 2004, 04:30 PM) My pedigree: Born Catholic Raised United Methodist Saved first phase through Campus Crusade for Christ Saved Second phase through reading "The Late Great Planet Earth" After college attended Presbyterian Church Some independent charismatic churches Assemblies of God a little while Messianic Jewish group about 2 years Charismatic Baptist church 1 year or 2 Degree from liberal protestant seminary Word/Faith charismatic church about 17 yrs Evangelical Free church 2 years now Jimmy, You're pretty up there in age then. I thought for sure you were mid-20's. Anyway, we have a similar pedigree with the exception that you are still "in". Raised non-denominational, kind of baptist with a charismatic twist later on. As an adult I've attended regularly Charismatic (various non-denominational persuasions), Charismatic/Apostolic, Messianic Jewish, Word/Faith and Weslyan. Posted by: chefranden May 30 2004, 07:01 PM QUOTE (TruthWarrior @ May 30 2004, 08:49 PM) Youth groups in: Assembly of God / & other Pentecostals then in the Catholic Church, then the Methodist Church After I finally grew out of youth groups I got baptized into the Church of Christ church. So I think I covered all the basic mutations of christianity. Well, at least you are an apostate of the True Church, the Church of Christ. Posted by: chefranden May 30 2004, 07:07 PM Poor, Jimmy, it is obvious from his record that he is not saved, no matter what he thinks about the shroud. He has never been a member of the TrueChurch™, such a waste of devotion. ----- few there are that find it. Posted by: Madame M May 30 2004, 07:07 PM QUOTE (chefranden @ May 30 2004, 10:01 PM) QUOTE (TruthWarrior @ May 30 2004, 08:49 PM) Youth groups in: Assembly of God / & other Pentecostals then in the Catholic Church, then the Methodist Church After I finally grew out of youth groups I got baptized into the Church of Christ church. So I think I covered all the basic mutations of christianity. Well, at least you are an apostate of the True Church, the Church of Christ. Are you both talking about the Boston Movement church of christ cult that doesn't own buildings. I got caught up wiht them for a couple months. I had to leave because they were way too controlling. Very shepherding, pyramid church scheme. The singles all lived in "lodges', rental houses with more than the legal occupancy (like 4 to a room) and shared everything in common. It was weird! They believed they were the one true church. At the time they had only been around like 30 years, so I am assuming they are up to 40-45 now. So I said to them, "Why would Jesus wait almost 2000 years after his death to establish the 'true church'" Dirty looks, horrified stares and accusations of blasphemy followed. The last thing they said to me was, "Get back here! You're rebellious and God will send you to hell!" Posted by: chefranden May 30 2004, 07:28 PM QUOTE (Madame M @ May 30 2004, 09:07 PM) QUOTE (chefranden @ May 30 2004, 10:01 PM) QUOTE (TruthWarrior @ May 30 2004, 08:49 PM) Youth groups in: Assembly of God / & other Pentecostals then in the Catholic Church, then the Methodist Church After I finally grew out of youth groups I got baptized into the Church of Christ church. So I think I covered all the basic mutations of christianity. Well, at least you are an apostate of the True Church, the Church of Christ. Are you both talking about the Boston Movement church of christ cult that doesn't own buildings. I got caught up wiht them for a couple months. I had to leave because they were way too controlling. Very shepherding, pyramid church scheme. The singles all lived in "lodges', rental houses with more than the legal occupancy (like 4 to a room) and shared everything in common. It was weird! They believed they were the one true church. At the time they had only been around like 30 years, so I am assuming they are up to 40-45 now. So I said to them, "Why would Jesus wait almost 2000 years after his death to establish the 'true church'" Dirty looks, horrified stares and accusations of blasphemy followed. The last thing they said to me was, "Get back here! You're rebellious and God will send you to hell!" No, Madame. I don't think so. Well it could be there are a lot of weird permentations of the TrueChruch™ Church of Christ. Jim Jones being an example. Started in the 1830's and known as the Cambelites as followers of Thomas Cambell an apostate Presbyterian, that saw the light of the TrueChurch™ as nondenominational restoration of the primitive and pristine New Testament church of the apostles. So they started the non-denomination denomination. As a result each congregation is a denomination unto itself. There is no governing body only cooperation, sort of, for seminaries and missions. Many congregations are house churches. Many will not hire a trained minister. Ministers are not called pastors, that title is reserved for the elders, and they are not called Rev. for only god is reverend. Some churches have no instruments, and sing badly. Some use only one cup for communion, euuuuuu. Some do not have sunday schools. They are divided in to 2 basic camps. 1. What is not forbidden by scripture is allowed. or 2. What is not allowed by scripture is forbidden. I was in camp #1. Salvation is by immersion in the name of Jesus, and no other way. Communion is to be celebrated every Sunday, and is taken to those that had a good excuse for not coming to worship. Posted by: Madame M May 30 2004, 07:44 PM Chef, the Boston Movement was a split off from the Church of Christ churches you see around. They actually call themselves the International Church of Christ and was started by a guy named Kip McKean. They emphasise discipleship- making disciples of men/witnessing and then discipling (ie: brainwashing) new converts in a strict heiracrchy (shepherding, pyramid) structure. The believe in unquestioning submission to those above you. They believe that the only way to salvation is immersion baptism into their church. if you are baptised in any other church, you are not saved. In the one I was involved in, San Diego, we were split up in house groups. Those house groups were in like some kind of sub group, for us it was the college age group, that met in a park and once a month or every couple months, all the area house groups rented out a big building and came together. The thing I did that made me leave, was I refused to write down every sin I had ever comitted on paper for my discipler to keep. When I refused to do it, they told me I was too hard hearted and rebellious to get saved that night and required more "studying". That is when I said I found out later that they use the sin list as a form of spiritual blackmail to keep their converts in line. Here is some information on them: http://www.carm.org/list/bcc.htm http://www.spiritwatch.org/icoc.htm This is a site for those who have left the ICOC: http://www.reveal.org/ Posted by: TruthWarrior May 30 2004, 08:42 PM Mine also wasn't the Boston Movement church. I researched it all before I joined to make sure it wasn't. QUOTE Ministers are not called pastors, that title is reserved for the elders, and they are not called Rev. for only god is reverend. Some churches have no instruments, and sing badly. Some use only one cup for communion, euuuuuu. Some do not have sunday schools. I went to the http://www.licoc.org/. They call the minister an evangelist. They believe worship with music instruments is against the bible. The new testament didn't mention using instruments, only singing, so we just sung a-cappela. Our church was big and had a worship director so we actually sung very good. The men would sing some parts and the women would sing others, and it was all in good harmony. It was one of the things I found good about the church. I thought the churches who used musical instruments just made people hide behind the music and never really take part. Though I don't know how well acappella would play out in small churches. We had multiple cups for communion. Little plastic cups with grape juice we would all drink at once. I remember taking my friend their and he was too scared to participate. It does seem very Jim Jonesy (I though he was from the Methodist church?!). Anyway http://web.archive.org/web/20021211064001/www.geocities.com/athens/delphi/8997/ had a church of christ theme to it, with links to all there bible studies. They write very good studies (so I thought), they're very much into the bible. But this makes them very paranoid and strict. I read some churches think other churches who don't follow the one cup thing are going to hell. Of course the non-instrumental churches think the intrumental worshipers go to hell too, and other wacky things. So Chef, maybe you really weren't in the TrueChurch™! I was the only TrueChristian™! Muahahaha! QUOTE They are divided in to 2 basic camps. 1. What is not forbidden by scripture is allowed. or 2. What is not allowed by scripture is forbidden. I was in camp #1. Wow that's confusing. I think I was in the #2 camp. Which only proves I was in the TrueChurch™! Posted by: TruthWarrior May 30 2004, 09:01 PM QUOTE (Madame M @ May 30 2004, 11:44 PM) The thing I did that made me leave, was I refused to write down every sin I had ever comitted on paper for my discipler to keep. When I refused to do it, they told me I was too hard hearted and rebellious to get saved that night and required more "studying". That is when I said I found out later that they use the sin list as a form of spiritual blackmail to keep their converts in line. Wow! I read that they keep of list of people's sins but I never really believed it. That's some crazy stuff! What got me booted from the church was my studying into theistic evolution. The Churches of Christ are very fundy and just plain http://www.bible.ca/tracks/ (as if it weren't dumb enough already). So when I mentioned it to the preacher he said he would set me up with a mentor to help me learn the truth. I thought that was a bit too culty and said no and left it all. This left me in a void. The Churches of Christ showed me that the all churches are unbiblical in some way or another. Now I found the last TrueChurch™, the Church of Christ, to be unbiblical itself! So that's when I started to really question all this man made wackiness that is Christianity. Posted by: R.C. May 30 2004, 09:05 PM I still say that the Christadelphain denomination is by far the most biblically accurate. Of course they're still full of shit by virtue of their xtianity, just not as full of shit. RC Posted by: Lokmer May 30 2004, 10:01 PM QUOTE (PriorWorrier @ May 30 2004, 05:14 PM) QUOTE (Lokmer @ May 30 2004, 02:41 PM) Mythicist with shades of monistic panentheism ?!? Could you please put that in plain English? Mythicist = I am now fairly certian that the whole thing is a myth in the grand tradition of other myths. In the stories of the Bible - like with all other myths - are truths that express the human condition, some are very specific to the time they were written, and some are more universal. I am comfortable enjoying and appreciating it without committing (what I consider to be) the category error of taking them as God's Truth ™. Panentheist = one who sees God as a non-quantifiable transcendence which embues the universe and is also greater than the universe. Some panentheists are deists (Paine), some are Christians (Tillich), some are atheists (Campbell). I'm largely agnostic on the questions of "is there a God" and "what is God", but I find the panentheist model to be the only plausible one, and I prefer to believe there is something tying everything together, whether that something is conscious or not. Monist = there are actually two types of monists. One belives that "all is God," which I find to be a fairly meaningless statement. The other believes that human experience and religion is an attempt to understand a real ultimate truth, and that all religion and myth is a refraction of that truth. I'm not a dogmatic monist, but I find that human culture and religion and myth is far more similar than one would believe from a western perspective. It could be something that arises from common brain structure and common environment (i.e. Earth), it could be a pointer toward something greater (God), or it could be a mixture of the two. Exploring that mystery is fascinating for me. -Lokmer Posted by: Stargazer May 30 2004, 10:54 PM I'm ex-Anglican (Church of England), hopefully soon to be ex-atheist due to my intention to take up Wicca as soon as I leave home. I'm forbidden from practicing it at home, despite the fact that I'm nearly 20, as my parents are fundie Christians and they barely tolerate my atheism now. I'm going to learn all I can about Wicca though, I don't particularly wish to be completely in the dark about it. Posted by: ian May 30 2004, 11:01 PM baptized in United Church of Canada (Anglican) stopped going to church when I was 7 for no other reason than I thought it was boring,meaningless and I didn`t like getting up early on Sunday mornings. became agnostic in teens became atheistic when I hit 30 Posted by: Casey May 30 2004, 11:38 PM Lapsed Catholic. Tried AOG and Pentecostals a couple times but never felt anything remotely like what one is supposed to feel. That's possibly because I learned to read at the age of four and therefore got into the habit of questioning things, which made trouble for me because Catholic schools in my time didn't like children who questioned ANYTHING. It's also possible that I never felt anything because most emotions had been burnt out of me and I'd suppressed others as a mental survival mechanism. QUOTE Born Catholic Raised United Methodist Saved first phase through Campus Crusade for Christ Saved Second phase through reading "The Late Great Planet Earth" After college attended Presbyterian Church Some independent charismatic churches Assemblies of God a little while Messianic Jewish group about 2 years Charismatic Baptist church 1 year or 2 Degree from liberal protestant seminary Word/Faith charismatic church about 17 yrs Evangelical Free church 2 years now (Jimmy) You've been round the traps, me ol' China! Pardon me mixing metaphors, but you must've smelt so much powder by now that I wonder you still believe in the same old rot. Casey Posted by: Madame M May 31 2004, 08:57 AM QUOTE (Lokmer @ May 31 2004, 01:01 AM) QUOTE (PriorWorrier @ May 30 2004, 05:14 PM) QUOTE (Lokmer @ May 30 2004, 02:41 PM) Mythicist with shades of monistic panentheism ?!? Could you please put that in plain English? Mythicist = I am now fairly certian that the whole thing is a myth in the grand tradition of other myths. In the stories of the Bible - like with all other myths - are truths that express the human condition, some are very specific to the time they were written, and some are more universal. I am comfortable enjoying and appreciating it without committing (what I consider to be) the category error of taking them as God's Truth ™. Panentheist = one who sees God as a non-quantifiable transcendence which embues the universe and is also greater than the universe. Some panentheists are deists (Paine), some are Christians (Tillich), some are atheists (Campbell). I'm largely agnostic on the questions of "is there a God" and "what is God", but I find the panentheist model to be the only plausible one, and I prefer to believe there is something tying everything together, whether that something is conscious or not. Monist = there are actually two types of monists. One belives that "all is God," which I find to be a fairly meaningless statement. The other believes that human experience and religion is an attempt to understand a real ultimate truth, and that all religion and myth is a refraction of that truth. I'm not a dogmatic monist, but I find that human culture and religion and myth is far more similar than one would believe from a western perspective. It could be something that arises from common brain structure and common environment (i.e. Earth), it could be a pointer toward something greater (God), or it could be a mixture of the two. Exploring that mystery is fascinating for me. -Lokmer Lokmer, Very interesting. I think the same way about religions. I think that is why people in all religions have experiences with "god". I haven't been out of xtianity long enough to explore much of anything except what was necessary to leave. But your descriptiton of monists panentheist seems to be where I am heading. For lack of better description, I have been self-describing as an Agnostic with Deist leanings. Posted by: Tocis May 31 2004, 12:25 PM QUOTE (JimmyDtD @ May 30 2004, 12:56 PM) I was thinking that it would be good to have a field with that information that goes under the writer's avatar. Okay, I'll bite. Ex-German protestant for me. Posted by: JimmyDtD May 31 2004, 08:06 PM Madame M, I'm 52, although sometimes I act like a kid. Yes, I'm still in. God help me to finish well. Posted by: JimmyDtD May 31 2004, 08:18 PM QUOTE (JimmyDtD @ May 30 2004, 01:30 PM) My pedigree: ... Saved first phase through Campus Crusade for Christ ... Saved Second phase through reading "The Late Great Planet ... Just wondering how many more phases of salvation it'll take? Was the first one good enough, and you're just polishing things up a little? I haven't even reached the first one yet. Prior Warrior, The first phase was sincere, but didn't result in much of a life change. My second phase was a more serious level of committment to what we call the "lordship" of Christ. Posted by: JimmyDtD May 31 2004, 08:36 PM " Jimmy, my goodness you have bounced around. Why?" Bob, (and Casey, basically same answer) There are quite a few years there, as Madame M picked up on. I've lived in a bunch of different places, had a divorce in the middle there, and made some dumb moves like going to the seminary. I have had experiences in all the places that I can count as profitable in some way. Posted by: Fweethawt May 31 2004, 08:47 PM QUOTE (Madame M @ May 31 2004, 12:57 PM) QUOTE (Lokmer @ May 31 2004, 01:01 AM) QUOTE (PriorWorrier @ May 30 2004, 05:14 PM) QUOTE (Lokmer @ May 30 2004, 02:41 PM) Mythicist with shades of monistic panentheism ?!? Could you please put that in plain English? Mythicist = I am now fairly certian that the whole thing is a myth in the grand tradition of other myths. In the stories of the Bible - like with all other myths - are truths that express the human condition, some are very specific to the time they were written, and some are more universal. I am comfortable enjoying and appreciating it without committing (what I consider to be) the category error of taking them as God's Truth ™. Panentheist = one who sees God as a non-quantifiable transcendence which embues the universe and is also greater than the universe. Some panentheists are deists (Paine), some are Christians (Tillich), some are atheists (Campbell). I'm largely agnostic on the questions of "is there a God" and "what is God", but I find the panentheist model to be the only plausible one, and I prefer to believe there is something tying everything together, whether that something is conscious or not. Monist = there are actually two types of monists. One belives that "all is God," which I find to be a fairly meaningless statement. The other believes that human experience and religion is an attempt to understand a real ultimate truth, and that all religion and myth is a refraction of that truth. I'm not a dogmatic monist, but I find that human culture and religion and myth is far more similar than one would believe from a western perspective. It could be something that arises from common brain structure and common environment (i.e. Earth), it could be a pointer toward something greater (God), or it could be a mixture of the two. Exploring that mystery is fascinating for me. -Lokmer Lokmer, Very interesting. I think the same way about religions. I think that is why people in all religions have experiences with "god". I haven't been out of xtianity long enough to explore much of anything except what was necessary to leave. But your descriptiton of monists panentheist seems to be where I am heading. For lack of better description, I have been self-describing as an Agnostic with Deist leanings. Lokmer, I almost did it again! That is, until I noticed that you caught the question already. Once again, you have, without knowing, helped me get a better perspective on my own thought processes. You didn't take the words out of my mouth. You just took the thoughts out of my head and helped me put them in a better order. Once I thought of myself as an atheist. Then, through circumstances beyond my control, I've come to almost the same conclusion that Madame M has. (Agnostic w/ Deistic leanings.) Thanks Lok! Posted by: Lokmer Jun 1 2004, 12:03 AM I feel like I've just gotten two big hugs from really quality people. It's good to be understood - thanks, guys -Lokmer Posted by: Fweethawt Jun 1 2004, 12:19 AM QUOTE (Lokmer @ Jun 1 2004, 04:03 AM) I feel like I've just gotten two big hugs from really quality people. It's good to be understood - thanks, guys -Lokmer No, actually that was just one big hug from me! Sometimes people mistake my singular hugs as being hugs coming from multiple people. But that's 'cause I'm just so darn good at it! TOOT! TOOT! (That's the sound of me blowing my own horn) Powered by Invision Power Board (http://www.invisionboard.com) © Invision Power Services (http://www.invisionpower.com) |