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| Printable Version of Topic Click here to view this topic in its original format ExChristian.Net Open Forums > Science vs Religion > When Dr. Neil Speaks Posted by: Reach Mar 26 2004, 09:33 AM Dr. Neil, you are one of the reasons I stay here at Ex-Christian. You bring so much to this site with your gifts. I want to say thank you for that. As human beings we make choices all the time and we choose favorites. Now some people, with all of their *mental brilliance* <choke> will say, "It's not nice to pick favorites!" Hello? What's up with that? We pick favorites every day. Favorite books, favorite shows, favorite music, favorite bands, favorite songs, favorite foods, favorite chair, favorite people... In my handful of favorite people, I find you. You may do what you want with this thread or you may have it deleted if I've embarrassed you. I just had to say thank you, to you Dr. Neil, for putting up with all the garbage you put up with from people and for continuing to plug in here and share your gifts with us. I hope you never leave. I'm afraid that if you did... I might be thinking... you go, I go. Favorites are rare, not common. I have favorites. I make choices. I chose you. Much love, much respect, with gratitude, Reach Edit: I forgot to say that everybody listens, when you speak, because you have something to say, something worth hearing, and then to top it all off... we are often rolling on the floor with laughter when you've finished. I love you, friend. Posted by: =Veritas= Mar 26 2004, 09:46 AM Well said Reach! Cheers to you for bringing this up. I think you're probably a "favorite" among many people on this board (including me). You're right about Dr. Neil though. Although he and I haven't dialogued too much thus far, I would have to say he is very intellectually stimulating and fun to read. So, I'm right there with Reach - Thank you Dr. Neil! =Veritas= Posted by: Neil Mar 26 2004, 10:06 AM When Dr. Neil speaks, E. F. Hutton listens. Nah, I'm actually pretty modest about what I know. I can be wrong, and I have been wrong before. There's no problem in that. I'm not any great Bible scholar. Any of the ex-Christian guys here could run circles around me with their degree of knowledge. I know the basics of the stories and I know what doesn't work, for sure. I'm pretty good at pointing out the argumentative fallacies and playing the stump-the-opponent game (remember that guy who never answered my question about Chixilub?), so that kind of strategy works to my advantage often. Posted by: Reach Mar 26 2004, 10:17 AM It's not about being the best or knowing the most. It's about showing some humility, like you do, and being willing to say, "I don't know," sometimes. Or, "I was wrong." You do that well. You have earned some praise and it ought to be public. I'm honored to mention this. Humility? You wear it well. It's about doing what you do with style and class. Hats off to you, Dr. Neil! I signed up for next semester and I'm staying in your class. Posted by: davety227 Mar 26 2004, 11:53 AM I've noticed neil usually comes in and drops some knowledge us. I always feel a ttiny bit more informed after reading your posts, neil. Thanks! Posted by: Fweethawt Mar 26 2004, 11:54 AM Mr. Dr. Neil or whatever, If Reach went as far as to post a thread especially for you, you might want to listen up. She's got this really cool insight thing going on. I've read quite a few of your posts myself and I have to agree, they were great. Keep it up guy! Posted by: challenger1 Mar 26 2004, 12:16 PM I agree with you, Fweethawt. I'm new to the party (and many thanks for not bouncing me!) and I've liked reading Neil's posts very much, they're very informative and far more knowlegable than anything I could contribute. I hop all over this site and when I see any of Neil's posts I make certain to check them out. I imagine if he ever debated someone in a live forum he'd leave them far more informed than they'd ever think possible, and for them that could be something scary. I'm with you, reach. I also enjoy your posts very much. There are some terrific people on this site, and I'm glad that no matter what happens in the world, there are some folks approaching things from a rational, unpanicked perspective. I am also signed up for next semester, and the next, and the next. . .I'll be here as long as everyone else is. challenger Posted by: Fweethawt Mar 26 2004, 12:27 PM Challenger, QUOTE I imagine if he ever debated someone in a live forum he'd leave them far more informed than they'd ever think possible, and for them that could be something scary. If my memory serves me correctly, (in my very sleepy state at the moment) Neil has done this, and they were scared to a point that they tried to keep him hushed outside of the boards using personal messages. Is this correct Neil? On another note Challenger, you're going to have to get with me on that "bouncing" thing. Bumbles bounce, I'm not a bumble. Posted by: challenger1 Mar 26 2004, 01:02 PM Hi Fweethawt, The "bouncing," I refer to is when someone is ejected (for example, eighty-sixed, or voted off the island, or what happens on American Idol when Simon gets through thinning the herd) from a party, concert, or other function. If you've seen "Roadhouse," with Patrick Swayze that'll illustrate my point better, plus it's a good Saturday-night popcorn flick. I think I'll look through some of the older posts for more Neilisms. If he's scaring them he must be doing something right. Sleepy? Where are you? I'm located in California, where if you don't like the weather, give it a few minutes. . .it'll change. Challenger Posted by: Reach Mar 26 2004, 01:29 PM Challenger, I'll see you in class then, every semester. If you would like to read The Doctor's posts, I'll include the link here. Lots of times, that's how I catch up with his posts. You don't have to run all over the forum. As long as you are logged in, you can read all or any of any member's posts by clicking on their name, which takes you to their profile. When you get there, on the left you'll see the member's name in large font. Directly under the name is a link which says, "Find all posts by this member." This is an outstanding feature and I hope you'll enjoy this benefit of membership. Dr. Neil Speaks Roadhouse was a fun movie. I think I even bought the soundtrack. Life is good and this is bouncing too. Posted by: TalkingDonkey Mar 26 2004, 02:27 PM I like Neil in proportion to how much I hate Kent Hovind and Duane Gish. Posted by: Neil Mar 26 2004, 03:19 PM QUOTE (challenger1 @ Mar 26 2004, 02:16 PM) I imagine if he ever debated someone in a live forum he'd leave them far more informed than they'd ever think possible, and for them that could be something scary. Live debates are generally useless, especially when they're in front of a crowd. The whole premise of such a debate is based on the flawed logic that the truth can be determined in approximately two hours by audience approval. The problem with live debates is that the audience will generally see weakness in the person in the debate who doesn't have "all of the answers". For example, an evolutionist, by default, is bound by honesty to admit that there are things that are unknown, and morons like Hovind take advantage of this. I'll give the devil his due... Hovind would probably crush me in a debate, although it's not because he's more intelligent. It's because he's too fast and he's developed his schtick for far too long for a schmuck like me to pound any holes in it. It would be fun, though, to at least try to give him some of his own medicine. Like, for example, put on a counter slide show, but not like that canned comedy act he puts on. I'm talking about a real slide show. There are some interesting geology facts that are seldom thrown at creationists. I'm sure he'd be caught with his pants down if I showed the audience what stratigraphy of the Grand Canyon actually looks like. I would take routes lesser traveled, such as showing them all the neat stuff that lie between the layers rather than just what's in them. Stuff like mud cracks and rain depressions and animal tracks... the stuff that makes the flood extremely hard to believe. And then I'd really lay into Hovind with articles from his own site, because no one ever goes after the Hovind site, and that's definately a weakness. I could show the audience that some of the stuff that he supports are actually known hoaxes. I would be sure to blow up a huge picture of that stupid wax monster he has on his "dinosaurs alive" page, just to really rub it in. I could take advantage of Hovind's ignorance of biology. I'd make sure to illustrate the differences between evolution biology and cosmology, and rail into him every single time he gets those two fields mixed up. I'd trap him with the horse/donkey chromosome number difference, and the second he proclaims that the donkey is a genetically inferior horse, I'd point out that the zebra has nine fewer pairs than the donkey, and is not inferior. I probably couldn't "beat him" in a debate, and he'd probably still get the audience on his side, but I bet I could put a dent in his ego and his arguments, especially if I just rail on his website. Attack! Attack! Attack!!! Posted by: challenger1 Mar 26 2004, 03:35 PM Hi Reach, Thanks for the info, I can stay current on the good doctor's postings. I just went over there real quick, and read that you just had a birthday. How does it feel to be twenty-nine? Challenger Posted by: Lokmer Mar 26 2004, 05:13 PM I second (or 15th) the motion! And I must add, Neil, that it's a great thing to have here someone who's area of special expertise is origins and science. While they're an interest of mine, I have my hands full with myth and history and don't have the ability to thwack fundys on science And, since I ducked out of the Creation/Evolution debate in 9th grade, having pretty well discovered where the evidence lay, I have not kept up on creationist shennanigans. So I mightily enjoy the catch-up education I get reading your posts! Keep the faith (well, you know what I mean)! -Lokmer Posted by: Fweethawt Mar 26 2004, 08:56 PM QUOTE (challenger1 @ Mar 26 2004, 04:02 PM) Hi Fweethawt, The "bouncing," I refer to is when someone is ejected (for example, eighty-sixed, or voted off the island, or what happens on American Idol when Simon gets through thinning the herd) from a party, concert, or other function. If you've seen "Roadhouse," with Patrick Swayze that'll illustrate my point better, plus it's a good Saturday-night popcorn flick. I think I'll look through some of the older posts for more Neilisms. If he's scaring them he must be doing something right. Sleepy? Where are you? I'm located in California, where if you don't like the weather, give it a few minutes. . .it'll change. Challenger I knew what you meant about the bouncing, Challenger. I was just testing your sense of humour. I sometimes have one of those. (or so I've been told) Ah, Roadhouse! That blonde in that movie had a really nice,,,, a really nice head of hair, I tell ya. I live in Ohio. But the main reason that I was tired when I posted my reply to you is because I had been up for over 24 hours, that's all. (i'm still flying on about an hours w/o sleep even now) I'll see you around. Posted by: pitchu Mar 26 2004, 09:07 PM Neil, I think you did just beat Hovind in a debate -- and playing both parts, yet! Count me in as another most appreciative fan of what you bring to us. Posted by: Neil Mar 27 2004, 12:40 AM You really have to see Hovind in action enough times to realize that the guy can seriously pull shit out of ass. I saw him in a debate with Dr. William Moore a biologist at Wayne State University in Detroit. Dr. Moore was careless enough to dare Hovind to name on college science teacher that lost his job for being a Christian, a Hovind pulled a name right out of thin air. That is the kind of shit that freaks me out, is that he can do that. The only two people I've really heard put Hovind on the ropes have been Massimo Pigliucci and Farrell Till, who are both brilliant men. I don't know if Dan Barker or Doug Krueger have debated him, but I'd be interested to hear it. To get Hovind, you really have to nail him with arguments that he hasn't heard before. He's got answers (albeit, not correct ones) to vestigal organs and stuff of that nature, so for people who think they're going to stump Hovind or any of his Hovindites with that shit... don't do that, unless you like wasting the whole debate time arguing in circles. That's another Hovind tactic: Make the evolutionist waste time by putting them on the defense. As Baby Eater demonstrated in another topic, the best way to go after Hovind is to attack his own material. He spends so much time studying new arguments for evolution and finding absurd rebuttals to them, that he spends practically no time quality-controlling his own theories. His website is a treasure trove of unbelievably absurd theories, most of them begging to be torn apart, and I'm particularly shocked that more people don't just rail him about that in open debates. But I know that if I spent a good amount of time learning what he thinks is true and then finding the real facts and rubbing them in his face, I can probably put a pretty good dent in his ego, and hopefully keep him on the defense long enough to show people how much of a liar he is. But, as I said, the man can pull shit out of his ass like you wouldn't believe. Posted by: Baby Eater Mar 27 2004, 11:46 PM QUOTE I would be sure to blow up a huge picture of that stupid wax monster he has on his "dinosaurs alive" page, just to really rub it in. Posted by: challenger1 Mar 28 2004, 12:49 AM Hi Fweethawt, Yeah, the blonde in Roadhouse was one. . .busy lady. As for my sense of humor, people who know me (regrettably) have learned that when I'm pulling something I can do it with an absolutely straight face. Even The Boss can't tell if I'm kidding or not. I love a good gag as long no one gets hurt or offended, I won't go that far. April 1st is coming up, but I usually leave that day for the amatuers. Pleasant dreams! Challenger Posted by: Fweethawt Mar 29 2004, 02:30 AM QUOTE (Neil @ Mar 27 2004, 03:40 AM) But I know that if I spent a good amount of time learning what he thinks is true and then finding the real facts and rubbing them in his face, I can probably put a pretty good dent in his ego, and hopefully keep him on the defense long enough to show people how much of a liar he is. I smell an interesting new hobby coming on here. (for you, not me. This isn't my cup of tea.) Go for it! Posted by: FireBramAra Mar 29 2004, 02:52 AM And there was me thinking this discussion would be pertaining to Dr Neil T Anderson. I met him once .... won't forget that in a hurry. Posted by: BillJ Apr 7 2004, 11:17 PM When Dr. Neil Speaks everybody listens...except for the mindless fundies! Hopefully you stay on this forum for a while Neil. It is nice to have someone with a scientific understanding to put the fundies in their place, and it especially makes the truth be known. The spectators read our posts and form opinions, and when the fundies get refuted over and over again, the spectators start to use their logic and realize that the Bible is not what it claims to be. Down with creationists! Posted by: Loren Apr 14 2004, 02:34 PM Dr. Neil, I'm on board with all the others who feel that you are a highly valued member of this community! I love reading your posts! Always well thought out (the most important part), and well researched. Also, I just love your acerbic wit! I must tell you that Reach showed me your site and I was blown away by how much younger you are than I had thought. You have post-grad wit. (Drunk Duck! Gotta love it!) For any who haven't seen the site, or Neil's amazing art yet, here it is: http://czarlandcomics.keenspace.com/about/ Posted by: Neil Apr 14 2004, 02:52 PM lol... That reminds me. I've gotta update that page quite a bit. That bio is quite old. The picture on that page is the only picture of me currently on the internet. That's actually not really my "art site". It's a mirror site that I haven't set up properly yet for my comic, which is http://www.drunkduck.com/Dasien/. I may have a gallery site eventually for just art, because I do have some stuff that I haven't been able to put in the internet yet, but I need to go to like Kinko's or something to get it scanned. Posted by: Reach Apr 24 2004, 10:35 AM When Dr. Neil draws... Excuse me please. (I figure I'm allowed to interrupt since I started this thread.) I have a question for you, Dr. Neil; actually it's a proposition. Ok. I have to be brave here. >>gathering my courage<< Recently there has been some redesigning of avatars, specifically for the game, http://www.vanallens.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=3468, and I got to thinking about that. By any chance do you ever do any commission work? I was wondering if you might design an avatar for Reach. We can talk privately about this, to be sure, but I thought, to be above board, I'd just mention it here first... Is this a possiblilty? Would you consider it? >>Keeping my fingers crossed... oops, can't do that. It's superstitious. Ok. Fingers uncrossed. Impatiently waiting.<< You know my number. Love your work, Neil. Posted by: Neil Apr 24 2004, 01:31 PM Just give me some idea of what you want and let me know in a PM, and we'll go from there. Posted by: Reach May 7 2004, 09:39 PM I thought I'd take the liberty of posting this here... in case anyone has any advice for Neil. Neil's post of May 7, 2004 at his http://www.livejournal.com/users/czarland/59260.html?mode=reply Current mood: gloomy Bad News I bet you're wondering where I've been. Well, I've got some bad news. My computer finally screwed itself beyond my ability to fix it. As a result, the comic is in haitus until I can get this resolved. When I try to start Windows 98, all I get is a message that says "msgsrv32 has caused a general protection fault in module USER.EXE". I have no idea what this means, and I've just about had enough with my computer breaking itself every few months. I'm going to start saving up for a new one. It may be several weeks before I return. Thank you, everyone, for reading. I really appreciate it. Dasien will return with a vengeance! In the meantime, if ANYONE has any knowledge of how to fix whatever problem I'm having, as described above, please do not hesitate to e-mail me. ========================================================================== Reach's note to herself: Cancel the MIA report. Dr. Neil, I feel for you. I had to replace a computer this week as well. I hope you know that you are missed when you are away. Posted by: Neil May 9 2004, 11:58 AM There's also a follow-up post http://www.livejournal.com/users/czarland/59634.html?mode=reply. Just think of this as an extended leave. Everything's under control. The weather's nice. Maybe I just need some fresh air while my money accumulates and I can buy a new computer. See you guys in June or July!!! Posted by: Reach May 9 2004, 12:16 PM QUOTE (Neil @ May 9 2004, 02:58 PM) There's also a follow-up post http://www.livejournal.com/users/czarland/59634.html?mode=reply. Just think of this as an extended leave. Everything's under control. The weather's nice. Maybe I just need some fresh air while my money accumulates and I can buy a new computer. See you guys in June or July!!! Neil~ Thanks for the update, my friend! Hope the time goes by .....zip..... fast for you and for us. Where is that rusty old offering plate anyway? Or basket? Somebody get that thing passed around, ok? All the best and hurry back! I'm not shy about saying I miss you, Neil. All the best ~Reach P.S. I'm completely finished with taking people for granted. Understood? Posted by: Loren May 9 2004, 12:28 PM QUOTE (Neil @ May 9 2004, 11:58 AM) There's also a follow-up post http://www.livejournal.com/users/czarland/59634.html?mode=reply. Just think of this as an extended leave. Everything's under control. The weather's nice. Maybe I just need some fresh air while my money accumulates and I can buy a new computer. See you guys in June or July!!! June or July?!? Aaargh!! Hurry back, Neil! I miss reading your posts. I'm also looking forward to seeing more Neil avatars around the board. Posted by: challenger1 May 9 2004, 10:05 PM You'll be missed, but recharge your not inconsiderable batteries, and enjoy your down time. Challenger Posted by: Reach May 29 2004, 06:14 AM QUOTE (Loren @ May 9 2004, 03:28 PM) QUOTE (Neil @ May 9 2004, 11:58 AM) There's also a follow-up post http://www.livejournal.com/users/czarland/59634.html?mode=reply. Just think of this as an extended leave. Everything's under control. The weather's nice. Maybe I just need some fresh air while my money accumulates and I can buy a new computer. See you guys in June or July!!! June or July?!? Aaargh!! Hurry back, Neil! I miss reading your posts. I'm also looking forward to seeing more Neil avatars around the board. Two days until June... ...and you said June or July... I miss you, Neil... Posted by: Reach Jun 10 2004, 10:16 AM The way Creation Science™ is taught... ... begin with a dead duck Dr. Neil, I hope you'll be able to check your email soon and be back with us. Warmest regards from your assistant, Reach Posted by: jjacksonRIAB Jul 22 2004, 04:27 PM Neil, Honestly, every time I read something you wrote, I want to go back to college and work on a degree in Chemistry, Biology, or Mathematics. In an argument over just about anything out there you'd fairly well expose me as the dummy I am. Glad to have you around. Posted by: Neil Jul 22 2004, 05:32 PM I'm just a cartoonist schmuck who does a lot of reading. I learn from you guys, too, so don't think that this is all one-way. Thank you, everyone. Posted by: challenger1 Jul 24 2004, 10:09 AM Sorry this is so late. . .I'll keep it short and simple. Welcome back! Challenger Posted by: Reach Aug 5 2004, 01:12 PM Neil, Congratulations on ONE YEAR at EX-C! Yeah, I'm a day late but wanted to say it anyway. Really glad you're back! Reach Posted by: Neil Aug 5 2004, 05:46 PM It's been a year already? Krikee! Posted by: Loren Aug 5 2004, 06:02 PM Neil, whether or not you ever know exactly how, you've been instrumental in a major change in my life. A very good one! Thank you. Posted by: challenger1 Aug 5 2004, 10:16 PM Neil, for some reason you make me think of Harlan Ellison! Posted by: Reach Sep 15 2004, 10:38 PM QUOTE (challenger1 @ Aug 5 2004, 11:16 PM) Neil, for some reason you make me think of Harlan Ellison! How did I miss this? That's one heck of a compliment. I agree. Here's an obituary he wrote. http://harlanellison.com/iwrite/julie.htm This thread is also special to me, because this is pretty much the spot where Challenger and I met. Posted by: challenger1 Sep 15 2004, 10:53 PM QUOTE (Reach @ Sep 15 2004, 10:38 PM) QUOTE (challenger1 @ Aug 5 2004, 11:16 PM) Neil, for some reason you make me think of Harlan Ellison! How did I miss this? That's one heck of a compliment. I agree. Here's an obituary he wrote. http://harlanellison.com/iwrite/julie.htm This thread is also special to me, because this is pretty much the spot where Challenger and I met. Hey everybody, If you get a chance click on the link in Reach's post, it'll tell you very eloquently about the passing of a great man, an editor. . .who brought adventure and heroics into four-color life for so many years to so many people. I was sorry to hear of his passing earlier this year. And if you'd grown up on his comics, you'd join me in sorrow. Thank you Reach, for remembering this for me. And for remembering me, as well. This thread will alays be very special to me as well. Challenger Powered by Invision Power Board (http://www.invisionboard.com) © Invision Power Services (http://www.invisionpower.com) |