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Open Forums for ExChristian.Net > General Christian Theological Issues > What would bring you back? II

Posted by: ericf Oct 4 2004, 01:18 PM

This thread could not be lost so I'm bringing it over here. Feel free to respond all over again with new and updated comments. Or just repost your old comments. Or forget about saying anything at all and just read.

Originally posted by pitchu

QUOTE

Lately I've been wondering what it would takefor someone to reconvert. (It's been so long, for me, that I can hardly recall any time of, or reason for, reconsidering.)

The "atheist in the foxhole" argument implies that there's some kind of victorious "I told you so!" to be gained by believers from an unbeliever's making a metaphysical, epistemological and spiritual choice at a time when he no longer has control of his bladder or bowels. This isn't what I'm asking about.

Just -- what, if anything -- ever enters your mind as potentially legitimate grounds for your returning to xianity?

Posted by: ericf Oct 4 2004, 01:19 PM

And here it is, one of my first posts when I found this board. I don't think I would change a thing I said.

QUOTE (ericf @ Feb 17 2004, 01:33 AM)

Hmm, I didn't read this whole thread so sorry when I repeat others.

1) That whole hell thing was a joke right? No one goes to hell... at worst everyone who doesn't believe ceases to exist. At best, your beliefs dictate afterlife -- reincarnate if that is your bag, heaven if that is, nothing if you prefer. Heck, if he is God why not?

2) Is God over his hangups about sex? If not is it worth it? Heck, if I can't be happy with my body and the body of my lover (at all times of the month) it isn't going to cut it for me.

3) Heaven, I don't want it! Sorry God, but I would choose reincarnation or nothingness before eternity. Please respect that buddy. If I believe I don't want to spend eternity in any place doing anything. Even if those things are varied or pleasurable. Eternity is too long for me to get bored in the middle. And no thanks on the lobotomy to make me forget that I am bored.

4) Make it clear to the world that all chemicals are drugs. ALL of them. So stop outlawing some and permitting others. Let people do what they want and love those who need help. I think Jesus started talking about this whole love and acceptance thing... God would have to enforce it.

5) While we're at it, world peace. Let's stop killing each other God. Oh, can you make sure we all have enough to eat while you're at it?

6) Although the above would lead to this let's clear it up... no more fundies. People who can't respect another's world view should be sent to the void ASAP.

7) Tithe what you want. Not this whole 10% thing. Give as you have to projects as you want. This goes along with number 8.

8) No more churches. Sorry God. If I am going to worship you I don't need others to help me do it right. Especially if they are going to dictate how to do it. All organized religion should be banned.

9) What the heck, I want to be thin... not real thin just in shape. I have these 20 pounds that need to go for my health... that alone would be helpful. Heck use the calories to feed some of those starving kids. 70,000 calories or more should help a few of them get on their feet.

10) AIDS and other diseases... got to go. Sure the cold and minor stuff we'll handle but things that kill -- sorry not acceptable.

11) If all the above was done, I might accept God again. Sorry but I can't promise anything. My life was ruined by the church and God for long after I stopped believing so I hesistate to start again.

I would rather walk with my head high, and truth in my heart, right down into hell... than lie to myself and sneak into heaven with my tail between my legs.

If my count is correct this was the 13th thing I posted. Note, I'm leaving any errors that were in the original. I would hate to change the past.

Posted by: Zoe Grace Oct 4 2004, 01:23 PM

a lobotomy.

Posted by: nivek Oct 4 2004, 02:48 PM

Burial urn and a surviving kid or partner with one hellova sense of humor..

n

Posted by: sexkitten Oct 4 2004, 03:40 PM

Communion crackers and grape juice being replaced with caviar on toast points and champagne.

Posted by: Freespirit Oct 4 2004, 04:14 PM

I agree that this was a great thread! I can't think of anything that would bring me back.

Posted by: jjacksonRIAB Oct 4 2004, 04:57 PM

The Truth ™ would lead me there. But then this path I am on must be spaghetti, because it seems to be going the other direction.

Posted by: astos Oct 4 2004, 05:07 PM

If god himself would come and tell me that I wouldnt have to spend eternity with fundies when I die.

Posted by: Asimov Oct 4 2004, 05:13 PM

QUOTE

If god himself would come and tell me that I wouldnt have to spend eternity with fundies when I die.

YES!! seeing blueeyeliner burning in Hell.....

I would never convert. God is too much of a fuckin hypocrite and war-loving asshole for me to want to worship him.

Posted by: The_Ill_Nar_Nar Oct 4 2004, 06:00 PM

When I become God, then I will return to the faith.

The Ill Nar Nar

Posted by: Zoe Grace Oct 4 2004, 07:08 PM

QUOTE (The_Ill_Nar_Nar @ Oct 4 2004, 06:00 PM)

When I become God, then I will return to the faith.

The Ill Nar Nar

what does your name mean?

Posted by: BlueGiant Oct 4 2004, 10:47 PM

I don't think I ever posted on this the first time around. Lessee, well, if the fundies are right about their god and that the Bible is an accurate description, then I'm sorry, I will never work for a monster like that, hell, I'd be leading a charge against something like that (if you're going to hell anyway, may as well go in style.)

In all seriousness, I probably couldn't be brought back to the version of xtianity I used to belong to, gods are too big for their little system. If I ever id'ed as a xtian again, it would probably be a pantheistic version of the religion, a la deChardin. 'Course, I wouldn't be a "TRUE BELIEVER™" then, would I.

Well, there is one thing I just thought of that they could do...they could drop all of the bullshit according to Paul, that'd be a start.

Posted by: Tocis Oct 5 2004, 01:37 AM

Let's see... irrefutable proof for christianity being the one true faith (as compared to the mountain of pseudo-evidence produced by apologetic and cretinist morons), and some damn good explanations for the crap in the babble. That would at least start me thinking.

Posted by: spidermonkey Oct 5 2004, 03:28 AM

When pigs fly.

Posted by: The_Ill_Nar_Nar Oct 5 2004, 05:58 AM

QUOTE

what does your name mean?

Why must it mean something. Nah its just a random collection of nonsensical words.... I assume.... Or does it have some deeper meaning to someone?

The Ill Nar Nar

Posted by: spamandham Oct 5 2004, 06:43 AM

One of my big fears is that if I someday get Alzheimer's, I may revert back to my days as a believer due to brain malfunction. I'm inclined to kill myself if I start going down that road, before it's too late.

Posted by: Reach Oct 5 2004, 08:19 AM

What would bring me back to Christianity? My answer holds.

QUOTE (Reach @ Aug 26 2004, 03:54 PM)

Nothing. Absolutely nothing.

Having said that, in a thread called, Keeping Up Appearances, Shadfox asked, "Are you a happy atheist?" I replied to him, thusly, on August 7, 2004.

Shadfox,

Ever since I was a little girl, I had this thing for a simple object: the anchor. I always seemed to understand its symbolism; it stands for... hope. Hope. An ocean of hope or even just one square foot from the depths of it, somewhere out there, as the sailor or the fisherman anchors in for a rest, no matter what the present, external conditions might be, as long as I have hope, next to air, water and nutrition, I've got the most critical thing I need. Hope.

I live in hope. My anchor holds, no matter the hellish rage of the storm. There are seasons of uncertainty, lostness and lack of direction where confusion and chaos might even run rampant as unchained forces through our minds. There is no compass sometimes and the rudder might be lost as well. The mast may break and the sails be torn. Repairs or replacements are called for. There is little, if any, happiness in these seasons but, much as I would have liked to design it to be otherwise, I don't make happiness my residence. I live in hope and that anchor holds.

Any sailor worth his salt knows he must pull up his anchor sometimes, store it on his own deck and move on, perchance to anchor down in different waters on another day. I've had to replace an anchor or two in my lifetime, but it is rarely lost when stored upon my own vessel.

There are bright places on my horizons. Some are behind me but I can see more in my future. I believe they will be there when I arrive. I live in hope. Either way, I'll meet whatever comes as I sail on, whether the seas are balmy or raging. Our friend Loren often tells me... "Reach, we have time." Sometimes, that's enough hope for the moment, to believe, that one has time.

Your current season will come to a close, Shadfox. When the happiness is slim, may the hope be full. Like Loren, I believe, you have time. We live in hope; that's the anchor and the anchor holds.

With my love and arms around you,
Reach

======================================================

We read too much; we learned too much; we did too much thinking to ever want to go back.

Posted by: Mo Biggsley Oct 5 2004, 10:24 AM

Free drugs could bring me back.

I'd definately need a strong painkiller in order to sit through the long services on those uncomfortable benches they call pews.

Magic mushrooms definately make church services more fun. Everyone would think they were gaining more insight from the ceiling than the pastor though. Also, the batrooms would smell horrible if an entire congregation were shrooming at the same time, but it'd still be fun.

Posted by: Slayer-2004 Oct 5 2004, 02:13 PM

there are 3 requirements to bring me back , all of them must occur :

1 ) Undeniable , unrefuttable , and completely scientifically acceptable evidence that shows there is no way christianity could be false . All of the bogus science that has been pulled out of biased christian scientists arses are lame , and pretty much all of them have been completely debunked . Hell , most of em have been shown to come from a lack of knowledge of even the most basic science , and often prey on those who are too scientifically illeterate to know the differance .

2 ) The Xian god himself must come down here to me in real life - and then logically explain how he can make a universe where those of us who dont believe in the correct version of him go to hell , and be justified in doing so both ethnically and reasonably . So far the christian explanation such as "You send yourself to hell" are infinitly retarded and circular at best .

3 ) The bible must be proven innerant . There are some apologetic explanations for the bible that do make sense - but many of them such as those for luke 14:26 , and of course the faith vs works major contradiction along with the gospel problems must be reffuted . The bible must be shown to be logically sound . So far the christians say we are unable to see the bible's genious works because we have blinded ourselves , I know this because I used to tell people that . As far as I have learned , it is the christians who are sticking their heads in the sand and refusing to listen to reason .

Posted by: Zoe Grace Oct 5 2004, 09:22 PM

QUOTE (The_Ill_Nar_Nar @ Oct 5 2004, 05:58 AM)

QUOTE

what does your name mean?

Why must it mean something. Nah its just a random collection of nonsensical words.... I assume.... Or does it have some deeper meaning to someone?

The Ill Nar Nar

lol no it doesn't have to mean anything. I just think it's cute and I was wondering if there was a story behind it or something.

Posted by: Boxxed Oct 6 2004, 06:34 AM

I suppose a Good Old Time Rapture hour would do it for me.

I'd be first in the reconverting line--if such a thing were allowed. By then, God may decide to harden everyone's heart that they choose to believe a lie rather than their own eyes and the Babble.

I haven't yet had the pain of a terrible death or suffering in the family. That could tip me over either way. Not anxious to find the answer to that one.

Posted by: The_Ill_Nar_Nar Oct 6 2004, 06:42 AM

QUOTE

lol no it doesn't have to mean anything. I just think it's cute and I was wondering if there was a story behind it or something.

Sorry I get asked this a lot. There is a story behind it...

Mitch, Jono and I were playing Balderdash. If your unfamiliar with the game, you have to invent a meaning to go with an obsqure word, and fool others into thinking your definition is right. Any way, Jono gave us some weird word, lets say it was "Slartibartfast." Anyway we set off on making our definitions and then Jono read them out. The third meaning though was "Jono is The Ill Nar Nar." We then learned that Jono had made up the strange word, and assigned a nonsensical meaning to it. We then stopped playing with him.

The Ill Nar Nar

Posted by: spamandham Oct 6 2004, 10:06 AM

OK, I've given it more thought and have decided that in reality I can be bribed. I would reconvert for around $10 million.

Posted by: notblindedbytheblight Oct 6 2004, 10:20 AM

QUOTE (spamandham @ Oct 6 2004, 10:06 AM)

OK, I've given it more thought and have decided that in reality I can be bribed. I would reconvert for around $10 million.

You left out the word 'pretend'.

Posted by: Zoe Grace Oct 6 2004, 09:04 PM

QUOTE (The_Ill_Nar_Nar @ Oct 6 2004, 06:42 AM)

QUOTE

lol no it doesn't have to mean anything. I just think it's cute and I was wondering if there was a story behind it or something.

rofl hehe I would be really good at that game. I can bullshit my way through almost anything. half the time when I pull stuff out of my ass even I believe its true lol.

Posted by: Bruce Oct 7 2004, 10:54 AM

Nothing could ever make me follow or believe Christianity!

Posted by: Khan Noonien Singh Oct 9 2004, 06:18 PM

Posted by: AugustWart Oct 10 2004, 01:06 AM

I could never be what I was. But I would be a technical "Christian" if Jesus showed up in my life and we became friends. Then I could say for certain that I had "a relationship with Jesus Christ." Hell, I'd even flaunt it... Of course I'd have to double check with Him about the "calling down of consuming fire" thing every time we passed by a street preacher or a conservative church.

Posted by: Mo Biggsley Oct 15 2004, 04:30 PM

This was my answer on the old board. It's strange, but I think my posts have lost their bite. I apparently am not anywhere near as sarcastic as I used to be.

QUOTE

All the freaking time. I REALLY miss going to church all the time. And the smell of old lady perfume? Why did I ever leave? Sometimes I lie awake at night thinking "Apart from always felling guilty for things I either didn't do or things that weren't wrong in the first place, and feeling like it was my responsibility to congregate with and try to fit in with people I had absolutely nothing in common with, and following a belief system riddled with holes, and being told that if something in their teachings or scriptures didn't make sense that it was a great mystery that humans were not meant to explain, and going to church 3 times a week, man I was having a great time as a Christian! Why did I ever leave?"

Then, something deep inside me tells me that I need my ass kicked for even thinking that. I say "You always make things seem so clear when you speak to me. Thank you, Satan!"

Posted by: Zoe Grace Oct 15 2004, 05:34 PM

QUOTE (Mo Biggsley @ Oct 15 2004, 04:30 PM)

This was my answer on the old board. It's strange, but I think my posts have lost their bite. I apparently am not anywhere near as sarcastic as I used to be.

QUOTE

I think it's just a sign that you are getting past it...it's a good sign.

Posted by: erik the awful Oct 15 2004, 05:54 PM

A List of things that might make me reconvert:
1. Time in Marital Pressures. 'mLady's a Christian.
2. An encounter with God where is explains why everything is sooo fucked up. You know EVERYTHING, the world, the bible, the Christians, need I go on?
3. Not much. Its their hell. They can burn in it.

I like my sarcasm. I wish I could find my old post on this topic. It had bite.

Posted by: Mo Biggsley Oct 15 2004, 07:20 PM

QUOTE

I think it's just a sign that you are getting past it...it's a good sign.

No dammit! I want my sarcasm back! Who took it from me? WHO?!!!

Give it back!

Posted by: Reach Oct 15 2004, 07:42 PM

I simply can't resist reposting Loren's original response on the old board.

QUOTE (Loren @ Feb 26 2004, 12:46 PM)

What would bring me back?

Money. Pay me, motherfuckers.

And it would have to be such a staggeringly huge sum that I would then be in a position to start my own country, and topple Robertson's empire, just for fun.

And our WebMaster had this to say.

QUOTE (.:WebMaster:. @ Nov 15 2003, 03:48 AM)

For me it would take an act of god...

sorry - couldn't resist..

Posted by: Ian Oct 15 2004, 08:45 PM

I've changed my answer :

2 things to bring me back (or into the fold since I can`t say I was xtian the first time around )

1. cheap booze

2. scantily clad promiscuous women .

know of any churches that offer this ?

If ya do , pm me

Ian

Posted by: Fyrefly Oct 16 2004, 10:57 PM

Reposting my original answer:

QUOTE

Like many others have already said, there is absolutely nothing that could entice me back to Christianity. I got out when I did (four years ago now - yeah, it'd be about that long) because I had finally realised what it was doing to me.

In the middle of Year 9, I became suicidal. I'd been asking my parents since Year 8 to get me the hell out of that school - I transferred to a Christian private school at the beginning of the 1996 school year. My parents believed it would be better than the public school system, but it was actually the most disastrous decision that they ever made when it came to my education. Did they listen to me? Nope. And in my mind, I saw killing myself as the only option I had. Until I discovered atheism at the beginning of Year 10, that is. And it all fell into place. I felt the way I did because I no longer believed. It made complete sense. I never did manage to fit in at that school, despite the fact that I was there for seven painful years. But for the remaining three years, I actually had an explanation for it.

I don't wish to inflict that sort of torture on myself ever again. I'm still healing, and who knows how long that process will take. I just want to put 1990 to 2002 behind me - yes, that entire period of time - and move on. Just let me take a nice little pot-shot at my old school first though. A strongly-worded email could work nicely...

Posted by: LadyAttis Oct 16 2004, 11:02 PM

Mine would be:

1. All fundies buggered on their own feces and it was God that did it.

2. Obviously evidence a of God, probably tea for two ya know.

3. If after God proving itself accepted me as a transgendered bi weirdo person. ^__^

-- Bridget

Posted by: spidermonkey Oct 17 2004, 06:56 AM

It would take some serious drastic shit to get me to return to xtianity of any stripe. Perhaps if I won the lottery and got struck by lightning on the same day...

But I can honestly say that there is no way in hell that I would ever return to the Assholes of Ghod cult that I ran from. No way in hell.

Posted by: Cerise Oct 17 2004, 07:19 PM

I would come back if....

a triple scoop ice cream sundae with sticky caramel sauce appeared in front of me out of thin air in three seconds.

1.....

2.....

3.....

................................hm. Guess God don't want me back.

Posted by: Reach Oct 18 2004, 02:17 AM

QUOTE (erik the awful @ Oct 15 2004, 06:54 PM)

I like my sarcasm. I wish I could find my old post on this topic. It had bite.

Erik, is this the one you mean? Your posts start on http://www.vanallens.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=1439&st=60

QUOTE (edasher @ Jan 23 2004, 05:02 PM)

at the risk of repeating everything already covered in this thread...

I could go back to beliving in God if the following were to occur:
1. I'd have to be convinced that God exists.
2. I'd have to be convinced that God is near the original God that I first worshiped, specifically: all powerful, all knowing, all loving, all merciful, creator of EVERYTHING, etc etc.
3. The idea of an everlasting hell would have to go away.
4. God would have to present and practice a HIGHER level of justice that one I can imagine.
5. xtians would have to feel the pain they've brought to the world, particularly the xtians that have interfeared with other's search for the truth. Put them fuckers in an eternal pressure cooker. (Vengance is mine... :wicked:)...(mmm... maybe too much...)

I suppose a psychotic break might do it too, but I don't know... I'd prefer to avoid that possibility...

Am I adding anything new here?

Posted by: sexkitten Oct 18 2004, 02:38 AM

QUOTE (Cerise @ Oct 17 2004, 07:19 PM)

a triple scoop ice cream sundae with sticky caramel sauce

I like the way you think.

Posted by: Anomalie Nov 15 2004, 06:12 PM

If there was some sort of explaination as to why christianitys is such a confusing mishmash and a reason why God seems to come up with soo many bad ideas. Think of this:

God in the garden trusts all of mankind with the earth and they screw up really hard. Fair enough. Then he takes himself and sacrifices himself on a cross and dies... you know the rest. Then he decides to entrust the his plan to the hands of who? The same people who screwed up the first time. Only now they are addicted to sin??? What a bad idea.

He writes a book on it. Good idea (would have been better to wait to wait till some form of incorruptable data transimission was avaliable). However he writes it in a set of languages that are culturally and era specific so that their meanings are hard to decipher in this day and age??? Bad idea. The meaning of this book is also highly dependant on how the reader interprets the book. VERY BAD IDEA. Now people can start wars etc over what they think this book should mean.

God makes himself invisible then punishes people for not believing. Bad Idea. Why not be visible??? I have not yet met one person who does not believe in trees or the sky.

I would not say I will NEVER return because I could be wrong about a lot of things but I am going to do my best to keep away until I can make a real informed well read decision about it.

Posted by: noendinsight Nov 30 2004, 03:43 PM

Nothing could bring me back. I left because I couldn't worship a God who was anti-women. In relationships the man is supposed to lead, especially in marriage. The final decision is his. That didn't sit well with me. I realized I could never be married to someone like that. Christian men are very sexist. I never bought the theology of "different roles in the church for men and women," that was just not good enough of an answer to me.

Another reason why I refuse to go back is because of the christian culture. I never fit in. I'm the type of chick who likes watching Sex and the City, Queer Eye for the Straight Guy, among other things. I like to think, I enjoy theology and philosophy. I like to ask questions and to learn. I could never follow a God if I couldn't question him, after all that's how I'd relate to God by asking questions, thinking,learning and growing. Most Christians are pretty cookie-cutter and I'm not like that.

Nothing could bring me back. Deconverting was very painful but a necessary process. Now that I'm free I like doing the things I want without feeling guilty, I'm no longer trying to please a deity who is very hard to please. Who is rarely satisfied. I feel free from that pressure.