Printable Version of Topic
Click here to view this topic in its original format
Open Forums for ExChristian.Net > Debating with Christians > The True cost of being a Christian?


Posted by: ericf Nov 16 2004, 04:34 PM
I recently posted this over at christianforums.com in response to yet another thread using Pascal's wager. I figured I would post it over here as well so we can see if we can figure out all the costs of actually being a Christian if atheists are right.

The True cost of being a Christian?

This is a thought that recently occured to me when coming across Pascal's wager. Assuming the atheist is right, Pascal assumes that the Christian loses nothing. We all know the basics here and that is not what I want to talk about. Most people will point out that one cost of being a Christian is up-to (and possibly greater than) 10% of one's lifetime income. I know some churches don't encourage the full 10% and other churches demand not only the 10% but also extended giving and pledges.

Okay, so we know (roughly) that this is some financial cost. But what are the real costs of being a Christian? I think they might run much deeper than even this monetary value might imply.

What if [some] atheists are right and homosexuality isn't a choice? What if a person who is gay can't choose to not be gay? I am not arguing whether it is environment or heredity, just that by the time the person realizes their preference it is too late to change it. What does this person have to lose by becoming a Christian? For one, they will never have the possibility to truly love the person they desire to be with. Their love will be a facade built around a faith which isn't true. I'm sure there is even more cost here but we can elaborate more later in the thread.

Keeping the same sexual tone, what about masturbation? Many Christians teach that this is a sin. If the atheist is right then it is just a natural desire and it harms no one. What do we have to lose if we believe? We lose many joyful experiences and the stress relief that accompanies them. We create a stress and a need to seek out a partner for sexual release when that might not be the best current action in our life. We might believe that all birth control is also wrong, and thus incur the cost of raising a child we might not have been ready for, thanks to our belief. And, all the while, we create guilt and stress because we are fighting this natural desire. Is this cost so minor that it should be discarded?

What about time? Let's say we are good Christians (but not fanatic about it) and attend church once a week for an hour. That's 52 hours a year. Or 3,640 hours in a 70 year lifespan. That amounts to over 200 days (assuming we only sleep 6 hours a night) of lost time. Time when we could have been doing something productive to make the world a better place. Or even time we could have spent masturbating. lmao_99.gif Does this lost time have a cost? Even if we were to spend that extra hour sleeping, it would provide health and emotional benefits.

What about the cost of bibles and study guides? Or the time spent reading them? What about those people who convert and become pastors instead of scientists and finding a cure for some disease? Can we find that cost?

So really.... what are the true costs of Christianity? We know it is greater than zero!

Posted by: LloydDobler Nov 16 2004, 04:43 PM
The true cost for me is two relationships with beautiful women that I hurt tremendously with my rejection of them personally, due to differences in religious belief. Also the dismantling and sometimes outright destroying of non romantic relationships with otherwise wonderful people.

Posted by: ericf Nov 16 2004, 04:47 PM
Yes the interpersonal relationship cost seems very high. How about the cost of crying yourself to sleep because you believe your children are going to a hell that doesn't even exist?

Or of alienating your children because they refuse to buy the same BS that you did?

Posted by: Slayer-2004 Nov 16 2004, 04:56 PM
link ?

Posted by: ericf Nov 16 2004, 05:01 PM
Here is the link over on Christianforums.com. You can post here or there if you want. But you bring up a good idea... some people might want to see what other people are posting.

http://www.christianforums.com/t1143298-the-true-cost-of-being-a-christian.html

Posted by: Lanakila Nov 16 2004, 08:46 PM
I am going to be seen as a whiner over there, and likely flamed as usual by a certain person. But I went ahead and posted this:
QUOTE
The biggest cost to me when I was a commited Christian would have to be sacrificing my own personal happiness to pretend to have an ideal marriage, because Christians aren't supposed to divorce. Secondly, it would be the damage I believe I did to my children by raising them to believe in Christian dogma, and in the fishbowl of the ministry. (they are recovering quite nicely now) Thirdly it would be the alienation of my non-born again family members. Fourthly I sacrificed my own life and career to be the perfect Christian wife and mother and to support my husband in his goals, and you can tell in the difference of our paychecks now.

Posted by: fortunehooks Nov 17 2004, 01:44 PM
lanakila, that is the way to represent yourself. if they ban you for that post,fuck them.

Posted by: sexkitten Nov 17 2004, 02:12 PM
QUOTE (ericf @ Nov 16 2004, 03:47 PM)
Yes the interpersonal relationship cost seems very high. How about the cost of crying yourself to sleep because you believe your children are going to a hell that doesn't even exist?

Or of alienating your children because they refuse to buy the same BS that you did?

Yeah, that's definitely a big one. Depriving yourself of relationships with adult children because they are "sinners."

Posted by: notblindedbytheblight Nov 17 2004, 02:29 PM
QUOTE (sexkitten @ Nov 17 2004, 01:12 PM)
QUOTE (ericf @ Nov 16 2004, 03:47 PM)
Yes the interpersonal relationship cost seems very high.  How about the cost of crying yourself to sleep because you believe your children are going to a hell that doesn't even exist?

Or of alienating your children because they refuse to buy the same BS that you did?

Yeah, that's definitely a big one. Depriving yourself of relationships with adult children because they are "sinners."

But that was prophesized...you know where it says to love god first and hate your family? Wow, prophesy fulfilled.

One doesn't have to be a prophet to predict that putting god above one's family is going to cause heartache.

Posted by: Lokmer Nov 17 2004, 03:11 PM
QUOTE (ericf @ Nov 16 2004, 03:47 PM)
Yes the interpersonal relationship cost seems very high.  How about the cost of crying yourself to sleep because you believe your children are going to a hell that doesn't even exist?

Or of alienating your children because they refuse to buy the same BS that you did?

The flip side is the interpersonal cost of deconverting.

One year along, and it's still climbing.


Fucking cult.

-Lokmer

Posted by: Zoe Grace Nov 17 2004, 04:35 PM
QUOTE (ericf @ Nov 16 2004, 03:47 PM)
Yes the interpersonal relationship cost seems very high. How about the cost of crying yourself to sleep because you believe your children are going to a hell that doesn't even exist?

Or of alienating your children because they refuse to buy the same BS that you did?

This is a cost my mother is dealing with now.

Posted by: Zoe Grace Nov 17 2004, 04:46 PM
QUOTE (Lokmer @ Nov 17 2004, 02:11 PM)
QUOTE (ericf @ Nov 16 2004, 03:47 PM)
Yes the interpersonal relationship cost seems very high.  How about the cost of crying yourself to sleep because you believe your children are going to a hell that doesn't even exist?

Or of alienating your children because they refuse to buy the same BS that you did?

The flip side is the interpersonal cost of deconverting.

One year along, and it's still climbing.


Fucking cult.

-Lokmer

Yes there is a cost of deconverting, as far as relationships go. But as far as I'm concerned its a small price to pay for freedom and honesty.

Posted by: Zoe Grace Nov 17 2004, 04:49 PM
QUOTE (Zoe Grace @ Nov 17 2004, 03:46 PM)
QUOTE (Lokmer @ Nov 17 2004, 02:11 PM)
QUOTE (ericf @ Nov 16 2004, 03:47 PM)
Yes the interpersonal relationship cost seems very high.  How about the cost of crying yourself to sleep because you believe your children are going to a hell that doesn't even exist?

Or of alienating your children because they refuse to buy the same BS that you did?

The flip side is the interpersonal cost of deconverting.

One year along, and it's still climbing.


Fucking cult.

-Lokmer

Yes there is a cost of deconverting, as far as relationships go. But as far as I'm concerned its a small price to pay for freedom and honesty.

and that was really the point of eric's post. Its not that certain groups have "no costs" it's that all groups have costs.

The fundamentalists who try to use apologetics to bring us around to their faith often use pascal's wager. But pascal's wager is dishonest. They shove the true costs of being a christian (if they are wrong) under the carpet because they don't feel that the cost is high and they believe they are right.

But the cost is high to some people, specifically those who believe christianity is crap. It's dishonest for them to say...if i'm right I've gained everything, if I'm wrong, i've lost nothing.

They don't dwell on the "if I'm wrong" part long enough to understand what that really implies. The cost is incredibly high. But some people need to live in a delusion to get by in this world. I fully admit I need the possibility of reincarnation or an afterlife to soften the blow of death. I actually think these things could be logically possible. However if they aren't, they aren't. I'm not going to be dogmatic about it. THe cost is too great.

Posted by: ericf Nov 17 2004, 04:57 PM
Yeah, the point was to examine what the costs were and could be. If you look at that thread... (on the other site not here) lanakila is the ONLY person who actually answered the question. The rest wanted to argue my original points. KatieHmm.gif

Posted by: spidermonkey Nov 17 2004, 05:09 PM
Let's see....

For all of my bitching about my "friends" leaving me when I was deconverting, xtianity cost me a LOT in interpersonal relationships. Not only did I end up making friends with a bunch of shallow asshats who eventually ditched me over my lack of faith, I alienated people who otherwise would have been cool with me, because of my stupid-ass faith.

It also cost me over $2,000 in wages during one summer - I could have worked, but I sat on my ass getting closer to jeebus and praying Wendyloser.gif Let's not even mention the numerous offerings and tithes I made.

Not to mention all of the time, energy, and emotions that I put into xtianity when I should have been investing into friends, school, and my future career. I spent so much time sucking jeebus's dick that I neglected personal growth.

I also squelched any and all "sinful" lustful thoughts, especially those about women.

EDIT:~~~~~~~~~

I'd also like to add that a lot of costs associated with deconversion that I have experienced should be included in the costs of being xtian. If I would have never been xtian I never would have gone through 90% of that bullshit in the first place!

Powered by Invision Power Board (http://www.invisionboard.com)
© Invision Power Services (http://www.invisionpower.com)