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Posted by: Messi Dec 9 2004, 12:44 PM

The Ten Commandments, Even the top ten don't agree ! Track this topic | Email this topic | Print this topic Posted: May 13 2003, 08:48 AM Bill Henness There are three lists of the 10 Commandments in the Bible. They all do not agree. Most everyone knows the most famous one found in Ex. 20:1-17. Another one that very closely agree with this one is found in Deut. 5:7-21. The third one, which is altogether different than the other two is found in Ex. 34:14-28. This one even says it is the ten commandments. 1. For thou shalt worship no other god; for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God;...(Ex. 34:14) 2. Thou shalt make thee no melted gods. (v.17) 3. The feast of unleavened bread shalt thou keep. Seven days thou shalt eat unleavened bread, as I commanded thee, in the time of the month Abib; for in the month Abib thou camest out from Egypt. (v.18) 4. All that openeth the womb is mine; and every firstling among thy cattle, whether ox or sheep, that is male. (v.19) 5. But the firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb; and if thou redeem him not, then shalt thou break his neck. All the first-born of thy sons thou shalt redeem. And none shall appear before me empty. (v.20) 6. Six days thou shalt work, but on the seventh day thou shalt rest: in plowing time and in harvest thou shalt rest. (v.21) 7. And thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, of the first fruits of wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year's end. (v.22) 8. Thrice in the year shall all your male children appear before the LORD GOD, the God of Israel. For I will cast out the nations before thee, and enlarge thy borders; neither shall any man desire thy land, when thou shalt go up to appear before the LORD thy God thrice in the year. (v.v.23,24) 9. Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leaven; neither shall the sacrifice of the feast of the Passover be left unto the morning. (v.25) 10. The first of the first fruits of thy land thou shalt bring unto the house of the LORD thy God. Thou shalt not boil a kid in his mother's milk. (v.26) And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words; for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel. And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments. (v.v.27,28) Unregistered Posted: May 17 2003, 08:35 AM Heimdall This just goes to show how errant the Christ Cult is, even the religion that it is loosly based on can't agree on simple things like the "Ten" (or is it 20+) Commandments ! - Heimdall Skeptic Group: Members Posts: 201 Member No.: 14 Joined: 12-December 02 Posted: May 23 2003, 04:42 PM The Patron Saint of Atheism I shall now impersonate a Christian. Ahem, "You poor, lost soul. Obviously Satan has muted your ability to realize truth! There were thousands of orders God gave man, very few of which you atheists abide by! But no matter, this is not my point. Moses brought only Ten of God's great orders, who is to say he didn't receive a few more later on? Or maybe he dropped a tablet or two on the way back down the mountain because of weight! The Bible is infallible! INFALLIBLE I TELL YOU!" I never was very good at impressions... -------------------- "It's a small world, but I wouldn't want to paint it." - Steven Wright Strong Minded Group: Members Posts: 151 Member No.: 103 Joined: 23-May 03 Posted: May 24 2003, 08:06 AM TruthWarrior QUOTE (The Patron Saint of Atheism @ May 23 2003, 08:42 PM) Or maybe he dropped a tablet or two on the way back down the mountain because of weight! That happened in Mel Brook's "History of the World Part 1". -------------------- "Yesterday we obeyed kings and bent our necks before emperors. But today we kneel only to truth, follow only beauty, and obey only love." -Kahlil Gibran Freethinker Group: Senior Members Posts: 926 Member No.: 93 Joined: 13-May 03 Posted: May 24 2003, 08:09 AM The Patron Saint of Atheism I never got to see that movie! I really wanted to though... -------------------- "It's a small world, but I wouldn't want to paint it." - Steven Wright Strong Minded Group: Members Posts: 151 Member No.: 103 Joined: 23-May 03 Posted: Jun 14 2003, 02:51 AM S.B.C I was reading, The Ten Commandments Even the top ten don't agree ! -Bill Henness After careful reading, I noticed another error. Please correct me if I'm badly mistaken. If you have your Bible, please read the whole chapter of Exodus 34 to get the context. Then ask yourself,"Who wrote the second tablets (2nd 10 Commandments)?" It says in Ex. 34:1 (KJV) "And the LORD said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou brakest." See? The Lord should be doing the writing;however, let's take a look at the next verses. In Ex 34:27 (KJV) "And the Lord said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel." Hey! Wait a minute.. Moses wrote it? It says the same thing in the next verse. Ex 34:28 (KJV) "And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments." Did you notice that there is no capital "H" in the word "he" which indicate it's God? The word"he" was Moses. Therefore it is Moses who wrote, "The Ten Commandments." Do you get it? I'm a Christian. Or should I say "I'm a bad Christian" for asking too much questions? It's funny how the Bible said in 1 Corith. 14:33, For God is not, the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. The more I read, the more confusing it gets. It could be that Moses in 40 days decided to make copies of what God wrote.. Any explanation? Unregistered Posted: Jul 2 2003, 04:10 PM Bill H. I think you are right on. One place says Yahweh wrote them, the other place says Moses did. Believers will probably say, "both are correct." Unregistered Posted: Jul 3 2003, 08:36 AM mandylibra1979 how utterly stupid the BuyBull is . . . Skeptics Annotated Bible cleary points that out! ~mandy ::imagine:: :::the truth will set you free::: -------------------- "The nature of god (if god exists) is unknowable so get the fuck over it." -mandylibra1979 "Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity." Humanist Group: Validating Posts: 1835 Member No.: 88 Joined: 1-May 03 Posted: Jul 3 2003, 12:56 PM malisamb Do people not read the damn bible? I mean come on. It only takes a semi intelligent person to realize that the bible is contradicting and like mandy said UTTERLY STUPID. I know when I was a xtian and I read the bible I just skimmed over verses pretending like I read it so I could say I read it. I guess maybe I answered my own question. mb -------------------- god is an atheist. satan is not. Skeptic Group: Members Posts: 305 Member No.: 91 Joined: 11-May 03 Posted: Jul 6 2003, 08:18 AM I Broke Free QUOTE (S.B.C @ Jun 14 2003, 05:51 AM) It says in Ex. 34:1 (KJV) "And the LORD said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou brakest." If god was supposed to write in the second set of tablets the same thing he wrote in first set of tablets, than why do the two sets of 10 commandments disagree? Did god forget what he wrote the first time? -------------------- Don't forget what happened to the man who suddenly got everything he always wanted: He lived happily ever after ---Willy Wonka Humanist Group: Paying Member Posts: 1806 Member No.: 94 Joined: 13-May 03 Posted: Jul 6 2003, 04:21 PM God must have been off his meds that day. He was still figuring out things in the early bible. Maybe he was still groggy and grumpy from sleeping on the seventh day of creation, or as some believe, still "resting". Group: Posts: Member No.: Joined: -- Posted: Jul 18 2003, 07:03 AM moorezw The last one from Exodus 34 is my favorite. It commands that "thou shalt not boil a kid in his mother's milk." This 'boils' down to a kosher food prohibition about mixing meat and cheese. Therefore, I refer to this one as the "No cheeseburgers" commandment, and whenever I encounter a Mad Fish who's foaming at the mouth over the Ten Commandments being taken down from a school, I always ask if they mind the school cafeteria serving cheesebugers. Rationalist Group: Moderators Posts: 1355 Member No.: 172 Joined: 17-July 03 Posted: Jul 18 2003, 08:09 AM .:WebMaster:. Now that is funny !!!! -------------------- "When I do good, I feel good; when I do bad, I feel bad. That's my religion." Administrator of ExChristian.Net Group: Admin Posts: 2601 Member No.: 2 Joined: 6-December 02 Posted: Dec 21 2003, 12:39 AM Matthew QUOTE If god was supposed to write in the second set of tablets the same thing he wrote in first set of tablets, than why do the two sets of 10 commandments disagree? Did god forget what he wrote the first time? Cut the Big Sky Daddy some slack IBF! LoL. If he can regret setting Saul up as king over Israel, then surely he can regret some of the commandments he wrote and change them around while he still had time. Okay..so..people are going to use the Lord's name in vain anyways, Yahweh thinks..oh but boiling a kid in it's mother's milk..that's just plain sick! Matthew -------------------- Fix reason firmly upon her seat. Bring to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness, even the existence of a God, for if there is one, he must pay greater homage to reason than that of blind-folded fear" - Thomas Jefferson. Humanist Group: Senior Members Posts: 1559 Member No.: 143 Joined: 22-June 03 Posted: Dec 21 2003, 12:56 PM Redshift At work we're currently desiging this educational video game for Jewish children. It's given me an interesting insight into their beliefs. There are, in fact, 613 commandments! -------------------- . . . carpe that old diem! - it's the only game in town.

Posted by: Messi Dec 9 2004, 12:47 PM

The Ten Commandments, Even the top ten don't agree ! Track this topic | Email this topic | Print this topic Posted: Dec 21 2003, 01:27 PM chefranden Out which the xtians choose only 10, 1 of which they deliberately violate every week: Remember the Sabbath day and keep it Holy. This being among the first in importance if not first out of the 613. -------------------- Profit can never be satisfied, and stealing food from dying children to give to the wealthy is institutionalized within the captalist system. (David Edwards) Human Being Group: Senior Members Posts: 2223 Member No.: 306 Joined: 3-October 03 Posted: Dec 23 2003, 04:48 PM michelle Thanks Bill, I needed that. Rationalist Group: Senior Members Posts: 1402 Member No.: 413 Joined: 20-November 03 Posted: Dec 30 2003, 10:00 AM No Name The Ten Commandments are becoming America's lucky charm bracelet. Fundamentalists are saying that America is turning away from God, and he will send his retribultion on our land. If they can just post the ten commandments in enough places (schools, courtrooms, public squares) then maybe America can ward off the wrath of God. Unregistered Posted: Jan 18 2004, 05:35 PM Emperor Norton II QUOTE If they can just post the ten commandments in enough places (schools, courtrooms, public squares) then maybe America can ward off the wrath of God. Like crosses to vampires, eh? I'm curious what difference posting them makes- since we godless non-believers seem more inclined to read the Bible than the wonderful christians who are undeserving of God's wrath... -------------------- "Your words are fire giants besieging the Asgard of my mind."- Black Mage "Video games are like sex- they're fun with one, but for the complete experience, you need at least two." -Me Freethinker Group: Senior Members Posts: 915 Member No.: 309 Joined: 6-October 03 Posted: Feb 8 2004, 10:50 PM SpaceFalcon2001 Let's run through those they don't keep. I am the lord your god, that's right. Not JESUS. No Idols, but acc. to the catholic church, neither mary nor jesus statues count. Worship away. Don't take the lords name in vain, but "god" isn't really his name any more than lord. Keep the sabbath. Friday evening - Saturday evening to you! Honor Father and mother, I'll give you that one. Murder, this too. Adultery, why not? Steal, but usually from yourselves. Lie. Hey, can't help yourself there now can you? Envy/Jealousy/Coveting. Just admit it, all the time. So ASSuming they are normal enough, they keep about 4 out of 10, a 40% fail, but hey, Jesus threw out all this stuff anyway. -------------------- B''H BS"D IY"H I'm the Kabbalistic Chassidic Conservadox™ Jewish guy! Messiahtruth.org Moshiach.com Vist Totse: http://www.totse.com/bin/bbs/Ultimate.cgi 26,000 members and counting! Human Being Group: Senior Members Posts: 2477 Member No.: 499 Joined: 3-January 04 Posted: Feb 13 2004, 01:59 AM Tommy Wow, the non-believers on this forum certainly are giving themselves a nice pat on the back. I dont get it. I dont debate the existence of God with my Christian friends, its just a given. So why do you all get together to reassure each other that you arent making the mistake of a lifetime? Shouldnt you be past this? 90% of the posts in this forum are from non-christians. Who are they arguing with except their own thoughts? Maybe hearing other non-christians saying what you want to believe lets you sleep better at night. I dont know, this place is just a big support group for people who dont have the discipline to trust that what they believe is true, and get on with life, but instead resort to petty insults and nickle arguments to reinforce the point that there can not possibly be anything bigger than themselves. Unregistered Posted: Feb 13 2004, 03:47 AM Redshift QUOTE (Tommy @ Feb 13 2004, 11:59 AM) Wow, the non-believers on this forum certainly are giving themselves a nice pat on the back. I dont get it. I dont debate the existence of God with my Christian friends, its just a given. So why do you all get together to reassure each other that you arent making the mistake of a lifetime? Shouldnt you be past this? 90% of the posts in this forum are from non-christians. Who are they arguing with except their own thoughts? Maybe hearing other non-christians saying what you want to believe lets you sleep better at night. I dont know, this place is just a big support group for people who dont have the discipline to trust that what they believe is true, and get on with life, but instead resort to petty insults and nickle arguments to reinforce the point that there can not possibly be anything bigger than themselves. Tommy the Presumptuous - You are right. You don't get it. -------------------- . . . carpe that old diem! - it's the only game in town. Freethinker Group: Senior Members Posts: 939 Member No.: 212 Joined: 9-August 03 Posted: Feb 13 2004, 03:50 PM .:WebMaster:. Tommy, You have posted the same identical post twice now. Do it again and you will be banned. Here is my answer to your redundant words: Ummm, unless I've missed something, the purpose of this site is to encourage ex-christians. Please notice the heading on every page. It is Christians who think the purpose in life is to argue with everyone who do not believe in their religion. And you sonny boy are about as rude as they come. Blather on, it confirms every reason I left Christianity - or especially in your case, creatin-anity. -------------------- "When I do good, I feel good; when I do bad, I feel bad. That's my religion." Administrator of ExChristian.Net Group: Admin Posts: 2601 Member No.: 2 Joined: 6-December 02 Posted: Feb 24 2004, 08:49 AM Skankboy QUOTE I dont know, this place is just a big support group for people who dont have the discipline to trust that what they believe is true, and get on with life, but instead resort to petty insults and nickle arguments to reinforce the point that there can not possibly be anything bigger than themselves. Oh Crap! He's right, I've been living a lie this whole time. He's right I KNOW it's all real and I'm just desparate for others to help me in my denial... Petty insults and nickel arguments? Only when morons come in here and try the same old tired crap over and over again... Back to the 10 Commandments: SF, I've always loved the fact that xtians just decided to change the Sabbath to fit their own needs. Way to remember it and keep it holy eh? -------------------- "I want to get to know you... in a biblical sense." - Pietasters Infidel Group: Paying Member Posts: 537 Member No.: 603 Joined: 13-February 04 Posted: Feb 24 2004, 10:51 AM Caddius QUOTE (Tommy @ Feb 13 2004, 03:59 AM) I dont get it. I dont debate the existence of God with my Christian friends, its just a given. That is the whole point. Christians DON'T discuss such things. To questions God existence is big no no, and would actually tests ones faith. Christians need their weekly support group to keep in the up and up and make sure they are in right with Gawd and other Christians. Christians who do not attend these weekly support groups (or more) are looked down upon by the high council of Christendom. Why, those that don't attend are not being fed the might word of Gawd, and my very well starve to death in the decelet world of atheism and satans rule over all the vast evils that interlock it. Or maybe they will finally see that its all a bunch of bunk. -------------------- "People are idiots, therefore Gawd Exists." "The best defense against logic is ignorance." Thinker Group: Paying Member Posts: 52 Member No.: 283 Joined: 17-September 03 Posted: Feb 24 2004, 01:49 PM Erik the Awful I dunno Caddius; my ex-pastor has made it clear he'd love for me to show up at a bible study with my questions. When I tell him Christians don't want to hear my questions, he agrees, but says Christians NEED to hear my questions. He says that unchallenged faith is week. Don't get me wrong. Mostly I agree with you. Its just that sometimes you meet someone who calls them selves a christian who is a fairly decent human being. -------------------- Byte my Most Significant Naughty Bit! Sig TM'd and CR'd. World Rights Reserved. Skeptic Group: Members Posts: 245 Member No.: 551 Joined: 28-January 04 Posted: Feb 24 2004, 03:31 PM SpaceFalcon2001 QUOTE (S.B.C @ Jun 14 2003, 05:51 AM) It says in Ex. 34:1 (KJV) "And the LORD said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou brakest." See? The Lord should be doing the writing;however, let's take a look at the next verses. In Ex 34:27 (KJV) "And the Lord said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel." Hey! Wait a minute.. Moses wrote it? It says the same thing in the next verse. Ex 34:28 (KJV) "And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments." Did you notice that there is no capital "H" in the word "he" which indicate it's God? The word"he" was Moses. Therefore it is Moses who wrote, "The Ten Commandments." Do you get it? I'm a Christian. Or should I say "I'm a bad Christian" for asking too much questions? It's funny how the Bible said in 1 Corith. 14:33, For God is not, the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. The more I read, the more confusing it gets. It could be that Moses in 40 days decided to make copies of what God wrote.. Any explanation? I think it should be apparent that just because god says he will do something doesn't mean he will. A king can say I will write this down as law, and have his scribe do it, dictating all the way. actually: Ex 34:28 (KJV) "And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments." is really Ex 34:28 (JPS) "And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he ate no bread and drank no water, and he wrote upon the tablets the terms of the covenant, the Ten Commandments." Notice in the second one that there is no . indicating a new sentance. This shows that moses took forty days and forty nights to inscribe it. Notice that the second one is the original text, not the butchered KJV. -------------------- B''H BS"D IY"H I'm the Kabbalistic Chassidic Conservadox™ Jewish guy! Messiahtruth.org Moshiach.com Vist Totse: http://www.totse.com/bin/bbs/Ultimate.cgi 26,000 members and counting! Human Being Group: Senior Members Posts: 2477 Member No.: 499 Joined: 3-January 04 Posted: Mar 19 2004, 10:47 AM rydinearth QUOTE (Tommy @ Feb 13 2004, 01:59 AM) Wow, the non-believers on this forum certainly are giving themselves a nice pat on the back. I dont get it. I dont debate the existence of God with my Christian friends, its just a given. So why do you all get together to reassure each other that you arent making the mistake of a lifetime? Shouldnt you be past this? 90% of the posts in this forum are from non-christians. Who are they arguing with except their own thoughts? Maybe hearing other non-christians saying what you want to believe lets you sleep better at night. I dont know, this place is just a big support group for people who dont have the discipline to trust that what they believe is true, and get on with life, but instead resort to petty insults and nickle arguments to reinforce the point that there can not possibly be anything bigger than themselves. There is a grain of truth to what this person is saying. Anyone who has been brainwashed for as long as some of us have, needs a support group like this to help in our de-programming. Christianity is just like any other form of brainwashing. The groundless fears and guilt do not simply vanish overnight. For the first time in our lives, we're allowing ourselves a true diversity of opinion, and it will take a great deal of exposure to this kind of rational thinking for some of us to become totally free. The other side of this argument is that Christians feel compelled to do the same thing; ie gather with others of like chosen belief in order to shore up their own faith. Without it, most of them wouldn't be able to hang on to their religion for more than a week. -------------------- "Imagine there's no Heaven... It's easy, if you try... No HELL below us... Above us....only sky." - John Lennon Doubter Group: Members Posts: 16 Member No.: 719 Joined: 16-March 04 Posted: Mar 27 2004, 07:39 AM Madame M QUOTE (malisamb @ Jul 3 2003, 03:56 PM) I know when I was a xtian and I read the bible I just skimmed over verses pretending like I read it so I could say I read it. After you get through the fun myths- creation, ark, Abraham family, exodus..etc, you get into the mind numbing laws and wars. I usually started vegging at this point. Veg through Numbers, Deuteronomy and Leviticus. LOL! -------------------- Returned to the Lord June 23, 2004 I cried out to God seeking only His decision... I'd created my own prison. My Own Prison, Creed (paraphrased) re-convert Group: Apologist Posts: 901 Member No.: 752 Joined: 24-March 04 Posted: Mar 27 2004, 07:42 AM Madame M QUOTE (chefranden @ Dec 21 2003, 04:27 PM) Out which the xtians choose only 10, 1 of which they deliberately violate every week: Remember the Sabbath day and keep it Holy. This being among the first in importance if not first out of the 613. No, don't worry. They conveniently go right back to the law when it comes to tithing. The way some churches cling to tithing and preach it evey week, you would think it was the 1st, 2nd and 3rd commandment- with the 4th being "obey yoru pastor in all things". QUOTE If they can just post the ten commandments in enough places (schools, courtrooms, public squares) then maybe America can ward off the wrath of God. Some of them want the wrath to come, so that Jesus can come back and whisk them into the clouds, and they can sit in heaven with smiles watching the rest of humanity get thrown into an eternal fire pit for the sin of disagreeing with their doctrine. QUOTE Honor Father and mother, I'll give you that one. But Jesus said he came to turn family member against family member, let the dead bury the dead and whomever leaves their family for his sake is a disciple. Many sects fo christianity encourage people to cut off non-believers, even if they are family. This post has been edited by Madame M on Mar 27 2004, 07:47 AM -------------------- Returned to the Lord June 23, 2004 I cried out to God seeking only His decision... I'd created my own prison. My Own Prison, Creed (paraphrased) re-convert Group: Apologist Posts: 901 Member No.: 752 Joined: 24-March 04

Posted by: Messi Dec 9 2004, 12:49 PM

The Ten Commandments, Even the top ten don't agree ! Track this topic | Email this topic | Print this topic Posted: Mar 27 2004, 07:53 AM Madame M QUOTE (Tommy @ Feb 13 2004, 04:59 AM) Wow, the non-believers on this forum certainly are giving themselves a nice pat on the back. I dont get it. I dont debate the existence of God with my Christian friends, its just a given. So why do you all get together to reassure each other that you arent making the mistake of a lifetime? Shouldnt you be past this? 90% of the posts in this forum are from non-christians. Who are they arguing with except their own thoughts? Maybe hearing other non-christians saying what you want to believe lets you sleep better at night. I dont know, this place is just a big support group for people who dont have the discipline to trust that what they believe is true, and get on with life, but instead resort to petty insults and nickle arguments to reinforce the point that there can not possibly be anything bigger than themselves. QUOTE this place is just a big support group for people who dont have the discipline to trust that what they believe is true, and get on with life, but instead resort to petty insults and nickle arguments to reinforce the point that there can not possibly be anything bigger than themselves. Christianity is just a big support group for people who don't have the disciple to trust what they belive is true, and get on with life, but instead resort to petty manipulations and judgement of non-christian to reinforce the point that there is possibly something bigger than themselves. yea, pot- I, kettle, call you black right back. Why do Christians congregate together, to reinforce their doctrinal views and their faith that there is a God. I heard it my whole life in church- encourage each other to keep the faith, don't allow anyone to steal your faith..etc. This is the EX-CHRISTIANS forum. Whom did you think was going to be posting here? -------------------- Returned to the Lord June 23, 2004 I cried out to God seeking only His decision... I'd created my own prison. My Own Prison, Creed (paraphrased) re-convert Group: Apologist Posts: 901 Member No.: 752 Joined: 24-March 04 Posted: Mar 27 2004, 11:02 PM dharmadarwin QUOTE yea, pot- I, kettle, call you black right back. Why do Christians congregate together, to reinforce their doctrinal views and their faith that there is a God. I heard it my whole life in church- encourage each other to keep the faith, don't allow anyone to steal your faith..etc. -Madame M That is the plain ol' truth right there! I can say that it must be hard to keep up with the Jones's in church. The followers actually get a bit testy when one does a better job at being a follower to God. Do they say to each other....I can out worship you. No you can't,... yes I can.... What else could they have to disagree about. They are all washed of any common sense, about the obvious flaws in the big babbling book. They just open it up, and they are told what to think, feel, do, say, how/when to eat, when to rest, etc.... How does one actually think they are making any decision for themselves. It is so obvious to me, but then again, I am not a follower. -------------------- We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make our world. ~The Buddha Thinker Group: Members Posts: 67 Member No.: 722 Joined: 16-March 04 Posted: Mar 28 2004, 12:39 PM formerfundie QUOTE (dharmadarwin @ Mar 27 2004, 11:02 PM) That is the plain ol' truth right there! I can say that it must be hard to keep up with the Jones's in church. The followers actually get a bit testy when one does a better job at being a follower to God. Do they say to each other....I can out worship you. No you can't,... yes I can.... What else could they have to disagree about. They are all washed of any common sense, about the obvious flaws in the big babbling book. They just open it up, and they are told what to think, feel, do, say, how/when to eat, when to rest, etc.... How does one actually think they are making any decision for themselves. It is so obvious to me, but then again, I am not a follower. Dang Dharma - this is so true - it is EXACTLY how it was WHERE I was - fortunately a "knight in shining armor" rescued me out of the bunk - but when you are IN it - you never ever are able to SEE it, are you? -------------------- "If reason is released from its bondage, faith is its first - and only - victim." George Smith "The way to see by Faith is to shut the Eye of Reason." - Benjamin Franklin Rationalist Group: Paying Member Posts: 1043 Member No.: 604 Joined: 13-February 04 Posted: Mar 30 2004, 06:47 PM dharmadarwin formerfundie I spent so much time, oblivious to their behaviors. I think it had to do with my age, and the narrow view I had of the world. I sat watching the same 3 xtians talk about people behind their backs, like they were trash. These girls always showed up late for service, & always left early. They wore designer clothes, and drove nice new Mercedes, and Hondas. They were my friends at one point. They were also, the ministers daughters. Hmmm. His wife, was the same way. MATERIALISTIC I started noticing, how a lot of people in church, were so worldly with possessions. They cared more about their appearance, more so than spending time with their own children. They always managed to do something kind at Christmas though. As if to make up for doing nothing all year. I changed churches, but still the same people, and the same behavior. I did not get it at all. Upon reading Dyanetics, in college, I was perplexed with the whole life issue, and my mind became my friend. It has been going ever since. I read like a fanatic, and I love this forum. Suddenly, I am JOHNNY # 5, need more input, need more input. lol...I survived by way of opening my eyes, and my mind. I guess I should thank them, for being such bad examples. -------------------- We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make our world. ~The Buddha Thinker Group: Members Posts: 67 Member No.: 722 Joined: 16-March 04 Posted: Mar 31 2004, 12:43 AM formerfundie QUOTE (dharmadarwin @ Mar 30 2004, 06:47 PM) formerfundie I spent so much time, oblivious to their behaviors. I think it had to do with my age, and the narrow view I had of the world. I read like a fanatic, and I love this forum. Suddenly, I am JOHNNY # 5, need more input, need more input. lol...I survived by way of opening my eyes, and my mind. I wasn't oblivious to their behaviors - I made too many allowances - you are taught no one is perfect and we have to have "forebearance" and "longsuffering" and all that stuff. I found out real fast about the double standards - THEY didn't seem to have to have longsuffering and forebearance for anyone else. And you are right, all churches are exactly the same, different format, but the same. People are people. Much like yourself I'm a bookhound - and READ, READ, READ, READ, READ. I love reading your posts - you're smart and they make sense. Your presentations are well formulated. I always felt so stupid as a christian - well - duh? I like it here because of all the neat people and I appreciate how intelligent they are and like reading what they have to say. They're insightful, quick-witted, and just downright hilarious at times and I need that. I've learned a lot and made much progress integrating back into being HUMAN spending time here. Many have welcomed me, encouraged me, and made this a safe place to go through a very complicated and perhaps painful transitioning, so I'm with you on "I love this forum." -------------------- "If reason is released from its bondage, faith is its first - and only - victim." George Smith "The way to see by Faith is to shut the Eye of Reason." - Benjamin Franklin Rationalist Group: Paying Member Posts: 1043 Member No.: 604 Joined: 13-February 04 Posted: Mar 31 2004, 12:48 AM formerfundie L Ron Hubbard's Dianetics? Or is it something else? I noticed you spelled it differently. Dyanetics Anyway, if it's L Ron's, I've perused through it myself - don't agree with it, but definitely gave it a go. FF -------------------- "If reason is released from its bondage, faith is its first - and only - victim." George Smith "The way to see by Faith is to shut the Eye of Reason." - Benjamin Franklin Rationalist Group: Paying Member Posts: 1043 Member No.: 604 Joined: 13-February 04 Posted: Apr 1 2004, 01:34 PM Baby Eater The Church of Scientology is a dangerous sect. It is one of the most written about. I made a research for school about them a couple of weeks ago. -------------------- ARGUMENT FROM NOT-BELIEVING (1) The New Testament says people like you would question us. (2) You question us. (3) Therefore the Bible is true. (4) Therefore, God exists. Freethinker Group: Senior Members Posts: 892 Member No.: 398 Joined: 15-November 03 Posted: Apr 1 2004, 04:57 PM formerfundie QUOTE (Baby Eater @ Apr 1 2004, 01:34 PM) The Church of Scientology is a dangerous sect. It is one of the most written about. I made a research for school about them a couple of weeks ago. Yup, Baby Eater - that's right. But, I was definitely a "been there, done that" ya know. Luckily, I didn't get in too deep and it was pretty easy for me to get out. I'm working on posting my whole very sorry, sad, long saga one day, I just don't know that I'm quite ready to do that, 'cause when you do you know it's invasion of the fundies, right? I want to at least be semi-prepared for perhaps some unfavorable responses - and maybe not just from the fundies, although most of the people on these boards are cool and smart enough hopefully to understand how stuff can happen to people. But, yeah, Scientology is definitely bad news. Since you did the paper on it, I'm sure you're aware of their political agenda, right? Not much different from the right wing agenda these days, either, if ya ask me. It's all about power and control, my friend, power and control. Take care. FF -------------------- "If reason is released from its bondage, faith is its first - and only - victim." George Smith "The way to see by Faith is to shut the Eye of Reason." - Benjamin Franklin Rationalist Group: Paying Member Posts: 1043 Member No.: 604 Joined: 13-February 04 Posted: Apr 1 2004, 07:40 PM gecko QUOTE (SpaceFalcon2001 @ Feb 24 2004, 04:31 PM) Any explanation? I think it should be apparent that just because god says he will do something doesn't mean he will. A king can say I will write this down as law, and have his scribe do it, dictating all the way.[/quote} I take it your point SF is that you do not believe the Bible is God's breathed.... i.e. -- a verbatum record of what God spoke?? Just curious about your comment here.... QUOTE actually: Ex 34:28 (KJV) "And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments." is really Ex 34:28 (JPS) "And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he ate no bread and drank no water, and he wrote upon the tablets the terms of the covenant, the Ten Commandments." Notice in the second one that there is no . indicating a new sentance. This shows that moses took forty days and forty nights to inscribe it. Notice that the second one is the original text, not the butchered KJV. Okay, help me out here.... I have had a few glasses of God given wine from those wonderful grapes of our Earth after all, but..... where the heck is this "no. ((period)). These look the same. Show me how blind I am at the moment...LOL!! I am serious...tee hee......... This post has been edited by gecko on Apr 1 2004, 07:41 PM Strong Minded Group: Members Posts: 127 Member No.: 191 Joined: 28-July 03 Posted: Apr 1 2004, 07:56 PM PriorWorrier QUOTE (Madame M @ Mar 27 2004, 07:53 AM) yea, pot- I, kettle, call you black right back. Love it! -------------------- Taking shelter from those prayer warriors. That's wOrrier with an "O", see? Please don't mistake me for a warrior. I'm a pacifist! "Don't feel like Satan, but I am to them." ~Neil Young Infidel Group: Senior Members Posts: 589 Member No.: 396 Joined: 15-November 03 Posted: Apr 2 2004, 11:28 PM SpaceFalcon2001 QUOTE (gecko @ Apr 1 2004, 10:40 PM) I take it your point SF is that you do not believe the Bible is God's breathed.... i.e. -- a verbatum record of what God spoke?? Just curious about your comment here.... ============= Okay, help me out here.... I have had a few glasses of God given wine from those wonderful grapes of our Earth after all, but..... where the heck is this "no. ((period)). These look the same. Show me how blind I am at the moment...LOL!! I am serious...tee hee......... The Torah is definatly God delivered, but being that the emphisis is on the law derrived of the Torah, and that the literal story is seen as the fools translation, the events in particular don't matter, but have much deeper spiritual significance to the world and it's existance. The Torah's hidden meaning is the key to the way of the universe. Anyway: I was just debating the argument that made it out to be contradictory that God said he was going to write the law and then had Moses put it down, which in reality is as irrelavent as a king doing the same. ========= Just punctuation gecko. QUOTE he ate no bread and drank no water, and he wrote... means that he ate and spent the time writing. QUOTE he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote where that sentance structure suggests a stopping from the point where he eats during the 40 days and then he wrote them, insinuating that he just dawdles for 40 days. -------------------- B''H BS"D IY"H I'm the Kabbalistic Chassidic Conservadox™ Jewish guy! Messiahtruth.org Moshiach.com Vist Totse: http://www.totse.com/bin/bbs/Ultimate.cgi 26,000 members and counting! Human Being Group: Senior Members Posts: 2477 Member No.: 499 Joined: 3-January 04 Posted: Apr 3 2004, 05:26 PM dharmadarwin formerfundie - Yes, I misspelled Dianetics. Why some spellings elude me, I will never know. I think I may have partied just 1 to many times, in my younger years. No, I did not get into the sect. I guess it just highlighted how reactive our minds are. I will say, it had something, that made me question what I WAS. Thankfully, I started my mind back up, to open myself up, to other possibilities. SpaceFalcon, QUOTE he ate no bread and drank no water, and he wrote... QUOTE means that he ate and spent the time writing. I am confused. Why is the word NO, in the first sentence, if he in fact DID eat, and drink. Wouldn't it just say he ate and drank, and then wrote. I see you have given a different meaning by extracting out the word NO. I would think he did not eat or drink, from how it reads. Correct me if I am wrong, but I was looking at the thread in relation to those quotes, and was wondering if YOU were saying what it means? I am just curious. -------------------- We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make our world. ~The Buddha Thinker Group: Members Posts: 67 Member No.: 722 Joined: 16-March 04 Posted: Apr 3 2004, 10:48 PM SpaceFalcon2001 QUOTE (dharmadarwin @ Apr 3 2004, 08:26 PM) I am confused. Why is the word NO, in the first sentence, if he in fact DID eat, and drink. Wouldn't it just say he ate and drank, and then wrote. I see you have given a different meaning by extracting out the word NO. I would think he did not eat or drink, from how it reads. Correct me if I am wrong, but I was looking at the thread in relation to those quotes, and was wondering if YOU were saying what it means? I am just curious. When I said 'no .' that was meaning 'no PERIOD' as in the grammatical seperation of sentances. Nothing to do with the word 'no' in the quote. My point was: Are the following the same: I eat. I drink. I eat, and I drink. No, and that's my point. The period seperates the acts. So the former signifies and eating then a drinking, where the latter signifies eating and drinking together. The same line of thought can be applied to the excerpts I posted earlier. That's all. -------------------- B''H BS"D IY"H I'm the Kabbalistic Chassidic Conservadox™ Jewish guy! Messiahtruth.org Moshiach.com Vist Totse: http://www.totse.com/bin/bbs/Ultimate.cgi 26,000 members and counting! Human Being Group: Senior Members Posts: 2477 Member No.: 499 Joined: 3-January 04 Posted: Apr 16 2004, 06:30 PM dharmadarwin I gotcha! I was thinking in circles. I try not to do that. After chasing 4 chillens' and then reading a few threads, my brain gets a little exhausted. FYI - I get a catalog from a company called ONE SPIRIT, and it contained some books on Kabbalah. It is a very good book club, the prices are better than most on-line, or in stores. I thought I would pass it along. They are on-line if you would like to check it out. Take care, and thanks for the clarification. -------------------- We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make our world. ~The Buddha Thinker Group: Members Posts: 67 Member No.: 722 Joined: 16-March 04 Posted: Apr 18 2004, 07:44 PM Baby Eater QUOTE Ex 34:28 (KJV) "And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments." I too would start hallucinating after 40 days. -------------------- ARGUMENT FROM NOT-BELIEVING (1) The New Testament says people like you would question us. (2) You question us. (3) Therefore the Bible is true. (4) Therefore, God exists. Freethinker Group: Senior Members Posts: 892 Member No.: 398 Joined: 15-November 03

Posted by: Messi Dec 9 2004, 12:50 PM

The Ten Commandments, Even the top ten don't agree ! Track this topic | Email this topic | Print this topic Posted: Apr 18 2004, 08:49 PM SpaceFalcon2001 QUOTE (Baby Eater @ Apr 18 2004, 11:44 PM) I too would start hallucinating after 40 days. If you drop the Torah you can't eat for 40 days (just days), but now just giving to Tzidakka (charity) is acceptable. Although if you were in that situation I would say you could live off of God's energy or something. -------------------- B''H BS"D IY"H I'm the Kabbalistic Chassidic Conservadox™ Jewish guy! Messiahtruth.org Moshiach.com Vist Totse: http://www.totse.com/bin/bbs/Ultimate.cgi 26,000 members and counting!

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