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Posted by: luck mermaid Feb 16 2005, 09:55 PM
As someone who is sort of christian in my own way, I wondered if I would be moved to tears or if it would give me some direction in life.

I'm relieved to say that I'm halfway through it and the acting is cheesy, the music score melodramatic, the accented Aramaic and Greek obviously not the actors' native tongues or even something they seemed that comfortable with, but with beautiful cinematography.

I thought it was very dangerous to portray Jewish children as demons, I thought Jesus sucked for killing an innocent woman snake. I'm about halfway through it, I don't know how he and his mother can have a relationship when he's just a jackass to her, and in that one scene where he's all obsessed with the table and it's LIKE OURS!!! WOW!!! and Mary's like 'it'll never catch on" and i'ts FUNNY AND AMAZING! CAUSE JESUS WAS FORTELLING THE FUTURE TWO THOUSAND YEARS AGO!!! ABOUT OUR TABLES!!!

I actually thought he was hot. I think he and Mary looked hot together in that scene and they seemed more like lovers then mother and son.

I don't feel deeply saddened when I see him being whipped with the cat o' nine tails. I kept thinking - how many people have endured more than you have, as black slaves, as any kind of slave , as a child molested, as someone displaced who doesn't know where they come from like you do, etc.

I was interested in the Devil and her/his baby in the crowds. I thought it interesting that in this movie of everyone white with brown wavy hair and occasionally 'lightly toasted' skin, that the Devil was blue -eyed and pale, with no eyebrows to boot lol.

I was really put off by everyone being white in particular the Jews and Jesus. Sure, I'll spend 25 million dollars to do this 'right' including languages, but the people just sort of have to be white despite the fact that it's ridiculous. You know, it'll help them believe. assfucks.

I think jim Caviezel is a) a whore for taking the part and GONZ9729CustomImage1539775.gif someone I'd like to fuck.

Posted by: JP1283 Feb 16 2005, 11:20 PM
QUOTE (luck mermaid @ Feb 17 2005, 12:55 AM)
I think jim Caviezel is a) a whore for taking the part and GONZ9729CustomImage1539775.gif someone I'd like to fuck.

I'll second the latter!!!!

Posted by: Merlinfmct87 Feb 17 2005, 12:14 AM
Or the victims of the Inquisition.

And JP... only *you* could make me laugh as hard as I did at that statement. Keep it up wicked.gif.

Merlin

Posted by: Lartsa Cleargleam Feb 17 2005, 03:49 AM
I actually thought it was pretty good when I saw it. Caviezel the Weasel is a great actor, also.

QUOTE
I don't feel deeply saddened when I see him being whipped with the cat o' nine tails. I kept thinking - how many people have endured more than you have, as black slaves, as any kind of slave , as a child molested, as someone displaced who doesn't know where they come from like you do, etc.


You may as well look at any kind of slave and say, "I don't feel deeply saddened when I see you being whipped because how many people have endured more than you have, like a small girl being raped by her father for the third time and then beaten afterward."

See how it doesn't really work? There's always someone who has gone through more shit. Seeing anyone suffer at all is what's supposed to be hard. The idea is that an innocent person is suffering an abnormal amount for a stupid reason. Desensitization at work, I guess. Not that the Passion didn't help with that, but hey, what can you do.

But yes: I thought the acting was great (particularly Pilate and John), the cinematography beautiful, and the score beautiful also (yeah, maybe a little melodramatic in context, but still beautiful; especially the piece that was playing when they were raising the cross).

QUOTE
I thought it was very dangerous to portray Jewish children as demons...


Why? The anti-Semitic thing? If so, it isn't like they were trying to imply that all Jewish children are demons. *laughs*

Anyway, if you were joking, I couldn't really tell.

Mel Gibson definitely knows how to make movies, though. I just wish he didn't have such an obsession with torture.

(Off-hand):

Braveheart - main character tortured to death
Conspiracy Theory - main character tortured by government agents
Payback - main character tortured by crime syndicate heads
Passion - yeah.

There are probably more that I can't think of.

But yes. Passion was a good flick.

Posted by: Diogenes Feb 17 2005, 06:19 AM
QUOTE (Lartsa Cleargleam @ Feb 17 2005, 11:49 AM)
Mel Gibson definitely knows how to make movies, though. I just wish he didn't have such an obsession with torture.

(Off-hand):

Braveheart - main character tortured to death
Conspiracy Theory - main character tortured by government agents
Payback - main character tortured by crime syndicate heads
Passion - yeah.

There are probably more that I can't think of.

Right, like:

What Women Want - audience tortured by lame movie

Posted by: Madame M Feb 17 2005, 07:07 AM
QUOTE (Lartsa Cleargleam @ Feb 17 2005, 06:49 AM)


Braveheart - main character tortured to death
Conspiracy Theory - main character tortured by government agents
Payback - main character tortured by crime syndicate heads
Passion - yeah.

Man Without a Face- man tortured (persecuted by surrounding townspeople) and forced to live in seclusion due to facial disfigurement.

Papparazzi- man and his family tortured by overzealous and greedy papparazzi.

Signs- man already tortured by death of wife, is now tortured by alien invasion.

The Patriot- man tortured in war

Forever Young- man tortured by time machine

Chicken Run (he did a voice)- chicken tortured by impending death and potentially being made into a pot pie

Lethal Weapons- man tortured by various criminals

Mad Max movies- man tortured in post-apolyptic society by the powers that be


Clearly the man has a persecution complex, which is probably in part due to his identifying with the most famous persecuted person in history.

I never have gotten around to watching The Passion. OK, it's not that I haven't gotten around to it, it is that I have willfully decided against it.




Posted by: Shadfox Feb 17 2005, 07:08 AM
QUOTE
Braveheart - main character tortured to death
Conspiracy Theory - main character tortured by government agents
Payback - main character tortured by crime syndicate heads
Passion - yeah.


I've noticed that, too. Even in the lethal weapon movies there were scenes of him being tortured.

Would it be too far out in the field to suggest he has a martyr/messiah complex?

Posted by: Madame M Feb 17 2005, 07:13 AM
(LM)
[QUOTE]that the Devil was blue -eyed and pale, with no eyebrows to boot lol.[/qutoe]

Obviously albinos are of the devil. LOL!

[quote]I was really put off by everyone being white in particular the Jews and Jesus. Sure, I'll spend 25 million dollars to do this 'right' including languages, but the people just sort of have to be white despite the fact that it's ridiculous. You know, it'll help them believe. assfucks.[/quote]

Well, he is Catholic. They portray Jesus as a caucasian anorexic. Which is kind of weird because nobody that skinny could have taken a beating and carried a cross, as well as been a carpenter. Nobody that white could have been of middle eastern descent. So by their own artistic portrayal, they debunk their own biblical account. By their portrayal, he was neither middle eastern nor did he do any kind of manual labor.

Posted by: I Broke Free Feb 17 2005, 08:12 AM
QUOTE (JP1283 @ Feb 17 2005, 02:20 AM)
QUOTE (luck mermaid @ Feb 17 2005, 12:55 AM)
I think jim Caviezel is a) a whore for taking the part and GONZ9729CustomImage1539775.gif someone I'd like to fuck.

I'll second the latter!!!!

I'm next!

I fell in lust with Jim Caviezel in the movie "Frequency" he did with Dennis Quaid.

woohoo.gif LeslieLook.gif woohoo.gif LeslieLook.gif

Posted by: Merlinfmct87 Feb 17 2005, 09:40 AM
QUOTE (Madame M @ Feb 17 2005, 03:07 PM)
I never have gotten around to watching The Passion. OK, it's not that I haven't gotten around to it, it is that I have willfully decided against it.

Same here. I watched RotK in the theateres(again) in protest FrogsToadBigGrin.gif.

Merlin

Posted by: anony~mouse Feb 17 2005, 10:27 AM
If it makes any of you feel better, every actor who's played Jesus has had some kind of horrible, deadly, highly improbable accident. Except Willem Dafoe, of course. Hmm...

By the way, did any of you guys see the South Park episode where the kids meet Mel Gibson and find out that he's bat-shit insane? "You can torture me all you want, but you'll never get your 18 dollars!" (Ties himself to a table.) "There are some whips in the closet. Go ahead! Do your worst!" "Oh... don't squeeze my nipples any harder! They're so tender!" lmao_99.gif

Posted by: Yoshi Feb 17 2005, 11:21 AM
I always thought the table part was supposed to be humor

Posted by: SilentLoner Feb 17 2005, 12:50 PM
QUOTE (Madame M @ Feb 17 2005, 10:13 AM)
Which is kind of weird because nobody that skinny could have taken a beating and carried a cross, as well as been a carpenter.

ive heard that argument before. i actually watched a documentary that involved that topic. they said it was almost physically impossible for anyone to carry an entire cross like that. either he carried only a piece of the cross or the whole part of the story is made up.

Posted by: Pseudonym Feb 18 2005, 03:33 AM
I hate Gibson. The man's movies are always attempts to re-write history from a Hollywood perspective, and never take into account the historical facts of the situation. Braveheart is a case in point. Nowhere in Scottish history, nowhere is there record of Scots living in hobbit holes and painting themselves blue. Now this festering pile of barely repressed sado-masochistic gratuity with a thin, white, european Jesus (hot as he may be, and I hasten to add that he so is) getting whipped, flayed, hammered, nailed and practically subjected to every torment under the sun bar multiple anal rape. What scares me most about this movie were the clips shown on (lots of very sceptical) British news broadcasts of people spewing out from the American opening night weeping and making such ridiculous statements as (and I quote):

"It's one thing reading it in the bible...but seeing it up there on screen is just something else."

IT'S NOT A FUCKING DOCUMENTARY PEOPLE!

Posted by: MrSpooky Feb 18 2005, 06:53 AM
Somehow, I can imagine people masturbating to this film.

Posted by: Yoshi Feb 18 2005, 04:21 PM
QUOTE (SilentLoner @ Feb 17 2005, 12:50 PM)
QUOTE (Madame M @ Feb 17 2005, 10:13 AM)
Which is kind of weird because nobody that skinny could have taken a beating and carried a cross, as well as been a carpenter.

ive heard that argument before. i actually watched a documentary that involved that topic. they said it was almost physically impossible for anyone to carry an entire cross like that. either he carried only a piece of the cross or the whole part of the story is made up.

Catholic tradition dictates that he was assisted... and we don't know exactly how heavy the cross was, or it's dimensions (assuming it happened)

Posted by: Shadfox Feb 18 2005, 08:12 PM
It's a bit off topic, but I was just browsing Anne Rice's http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/AB4F6UHL20U95/102-0266980-6589761?%5Fencoding=UTF8&display=public&page=2 section and to my surprise she seems to be quite fond of Christian theology studies. She left this review for The Passion:

QUOTE
Gibson created something of enduring magnificence. He did it with intense focus, and total commitment. The refusal of much of the intelligensia to engage in responsible dialogue about this film revealed immense hypocracy and cynicism. The violence is not a legitimate issue. Prime Time television with it crime show obsessions centered on killing children is so much more truly violent as to make public discussions of the cruelty in the Passion of the Christ ridiculous. The Passion achieves a near impossible goal: the accurate dipiction of a first century execution and an embracing vision of the moment that changed the history of the western world, as remembered by those who insist upon that event's unchanging religious significance. Whatever your beliefs, or lack of beliefs, it's worth your respect and attention. It's absurd to think children will be harmed by this movie when network television spews lurid stories of kidnapping, maiming, rape, and murder into our homes every night. The film has set a new and very high standard for religious films and identified a huge audience that hungers for spiritual content in media.


Bleh. Wendyshrug.gif

Posted by: luck mermaid Feb 18 2005, 11:03 PM
QUOTE
You may as well look at any kind of slave and say, "I don't feel deeply saddened when I see you being whipped because how many people have endured more than you have, like a small girl being raped by her father for the third time and then beaten afterward."

See how it doesn't really work? There's always someone who has gone through more shit. Seeing anyone suffer at all is what's supposed to be hard. The idea is that an innocent person is suffering an abnormal amount for a stupid reason. Desensitization at work, I guess. Not that the Passion didn't help with that, but hey, what can you do.


I didn't mean it that away. I meant that Jesus is supposedly 'the one who takes all the punishment' and that is not true. People are still punished, and punished way worse than he was, if you can believe that. Whether it be emotional, spiritual, mental or physical punishment in question, prophets, activists, crippled, 'regular' people, etc have been punished more.

And I find it offensive that some white guy with a bad Aramaic accent would think that flailing around on a cross with his wrists chained to the wall while detractors look him up and down lasciviously taking inthe flowing of blood and moans of pain.

Maybe he needs a survivors' group it will help him to get over his false sense of specialness and give it up for something real.


As for anti-semitic, I said dangerous and I wasn't kidding. I think that Jews who are non-Christian are portrayed as evil bastards and children as demons was not something I was down with. I don't expect different from a race (homo sapiens sapiens) hell bent on fear and difference to do any different but I don't really need demonized children of a culture. They weren't 'demon kids' in the movie they were 'demon kids of the jewish culture', the whole movie was portrayed as a mixture of cultures we were looking in on. But we can agree to disagree.


Posted by: Lartsa Cleargleam Feb 19 2005, 01:16 AM
QUOTE
I didn't mean it that away. I meant that Jesus is supposedly 'the one who takes all the punishment' and that is not true. People are still punished, and punished way worse than he was, if you can believe that. Whether it be emotional, spiritual, mental or physical punishment in question, prophets, activists, crippled, 'regular' people, etc have been punished more.


Ah, when you put it like that...heh. Yeah I feel the same. Anne Frank probably died for our sins a little more than Jesus did.

QUOTE
As for anti-semitic, I said dangerous and I wasn't kidding. I think that Jews who are non-Christian are portrayed as evil bastards and children as demons was not something I was down with. I don't expect different from a race (homo sapiens sapiens) hell bent on fear and difference to do any different but I don't really need demonized children of a culture. They weren't 'demon kids' in the movie they were 'demon kids of the jewish culture', the whole movie was portrayed as a mixture of cultures we were looking in on. But we can agree to disagree.


I can agree with agreeing to disagree. The non-Christian Jews that they portray in the movie may as well be right out of the Bible. The idea wasn't to say that Jews are evil and this or that (they're God's chosen freaking people for christsakes, *rolls eyes at the people that believe this stuff*), it was to show that even Christ's own people turned against him. That way, even they would need his forgiveness and wouldn't be able to get into heaven on their royal blood merits. That's how I always saw it, anyway.

Also, if anyone is calling out for the release (and then subsequent extreme death) of a crazy man who merely claimed to be god over a crazy man who killed a bunch of people, then those people clearly have some issues. For example: they are evil, misguided bastards. Gibson took all of that shit right out of the Bible.

Blame the New Testament for being anti-semitic. I don't get the uproar about the film.

Also: they really couldn't have been anything other than 'demon kids of the Jewish culture' because those were really the only kids around.

Good points though.

Posted by: Lokmer Feb 21 2005, 05:58 PM
QUOTE (Shadfox @ Feb 18 2005, 08:12 PM)
It's a bit off topic, but I was just browsing Anne Rice's http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/AB4F6UHL20U95/102-0266980-6589761?%5Fencoding=UTF8&display=public&page=2 section and to my surprise she seems to be quite fond of Christian theology studies.  She left this review for The Passion:

QUOTE
Gibson created something of enduring magnificence. He did it with intense focus, and total commitment. The refusal of much of the intelligensia to engage in responsible dialogue about this film revealed immense hypocracy and cynicism. The violence is not a legitimate issue. Prime Time television with it crime show obsessions centered on killing children is so much more truly violent as to make public discussions of the cruelty in the Passion of the Christ ridiculous. The Passion achieves a near impossible goal: the accurate dipiction of a first century execution and an embracing vision of the moment that changed the history of the western world, as remembered by those who insist upon that event's unchanging religious significance. Whatever your beliefs, or lack of beliefs, it's worth your respect and attention. It's absurd to think children will be harmed by this movie when network television spews lurid stories of kidnapping, maiming, rape, and murder into our homes every night. The film has set a new and very high standard for religious films and identified a huge audience that hungers for spiritual content in media.


Bleh. Wendyshrug.gif

"Bleh" it may be, Shad, but there is a lot to what she says.

The problem with "The Passion," or even the gospel story, isn't that it's violent. Our world is violent - a fact that most of us can afford to ignore because it doesn't effect us directly. And she's correct that despite the brutality in the movie, it is simply a drop in an ocean of storytelling that goes back to the dawn of human history. Life is grotesque, painful, and always ends in death. Every ancient religion, including pre-exhillic Judaism, practiced human sacrifice and the sacred kingship at one point or another. It's central to the idea of sympathetic magic - for one thing to live, another must die.

And, indeed, our stories are, to this day, full of the macabre - even children's faerie stories are exceedingly grim, particularly when read in the un-disneyfied version.

The problem with "The Passion" lies in none of these things - for if it lies in its content alone then we truly are hypocrites who applaud films like "Saving Private Ryan" and "The Matrix" and all manner of other violent entertainments, both artistic and (blegh) commercial.

The problem is that people take it seriously as life, rather than as art. Historically, it has far more problems than the ethnicity of the actors, but even that isn't enough to make it distasteful.

No, the thing that makes it morally distasteful is that it turns human sacrifice into a good thing, in and of itself. It's selling human sacrifice to an audience that largely doesn't understand the context (even the Christian audience) and can't tell the differences between the artistic flourishes and the original story or even the likely history of such executions.

She is also right that people in the broader culture are demanding more depth in their entertainments. And who can blame them? 20 years of MTV and 50 years of sitcoms will do that to a culture. The problem comes in confusing religious propaganda with genuine spirituality, and "The Passion" seems to fall somewhere in between - credally programatic and deliberately manipulative, and yet posessing a degree of the genuine self-effacement that Gibson is so good at communicating. But, more to the point, "The Passion" tells a piece of a powerful myth, but without any serious reflection on the themes it brings to the fore, and it tells only the piece of the myth that elicits a visceral reaction without providing a lot of context. This makes it an effective mirror for thoughtful people - particularly thoughtful Christians, but leaves it in the realm of a combination Chick Tract/snuff porn film for the rest of the audience (i.e. Christians who are used to a programatic response to a familar story).

Of course, there is also the interesting matter of Anne Rice talking down the popular "spewing lurid stories of kidnapping, maiming, rape, and murder" when she herself is an accomplished B&D porn, vampire porn, and snuff porn author, but then again she likely sees the written word and the broadcast image in qualitatively different categories (an intellectual distinction which I think is artificial). But she IS correct in pointing out that fretting about "what the children" are watching is something sligtly beyond ludicrous. Preoccupation with offensive content misses the point of storytelling - in fact, it subverts the cultural value of story by reducing it to a laundry list of things people might find objectionable. And the refusal of freethinkers to thoughfully engage the film DOES smack of hypocricy and cynicism, when films with far more objectionable content ("Kids," "Happiness," "Crash," "Saving Private Ryan," etc.) have won immense critical acclaim in recent years for their courage and unflinching engagement of dark and unpleasant topics - as well they should have! Shielding ourselves from our own unpleasantness only creates dishonesty and taboos - one of the roles of story in culture is to bring ourselves face to face with that which we would rather avoid. Likewise, the Crucifixion is a dark and unpleasant topic; because of its enduring cultural significance, the inherent brutality of the method of execution, and it thus shows up the heart of darkess in the human spirit.

-Lokmer

Posted by: Valgeir Feb 21 2005, 06:18 PM
That movie was BORING. My friend downloaded it and we watched it (I promised a Christian ex-girlfriend that I would see it, a long time ago) and it almost put me to sleep. We jumped ahead to the crucifixion, and even that was boring. They actually made nailing a guy to a plank of wood boring. That movie plain sucked. And to think my ex had cried during the movie. I laughed at its sucking.

Posted by: luck mermaid Feb 21 2005, 10:09 PM
QUOTE
The problem with "The Passion," or even the gospel story, isn't that it's violent. Our world is violent - a fact that most of us can afford to ignore because it doesn't effect us directly. And she's correct that despite the brutality in the movie, it is simply a drop in an ocean of storytelling that goes back to the dawn of human history. Life is grotesque, painful, and always ends in death. Every ancient religion, including pre-exhillic Judaism, practiced human sacrifice and the sacred kingship at one point or another. It's central to the idea of sympathetic magic - for one thing to live, another must die.



I was talking to someone at work and she said she 'identified' with Jesus. And I thought that makes so much sense. Part of what drew me to get a good feeling about Jesus, despite my being creeped out by it's controlling religiousness and the all male pretext and asexuality as divine, I identify.

I wasn't getting so much of that in the limited amount of Paganism I was exposed to in my past. Pain is such a strong bond, almost every person's life in the entire world who is old enough or physiologically developed enough brain-wise to be able to regret does regret. We say 'this sucks' 'if onlly' ' I hurt'. We seek the absence of pain and hurting on every level. Pain is part of my story and I didn't feel I got that from Pagan gods. Firstly many of the Gods are silly in some way or other - I am beginning to understand a couple of points of view of why some of them are important, but the silliness and other things I don't get I might never get not being a part of the culture that brought them into the world, or only get after a time.

Many of the Gods and Goddesses are mature, healthy. I'm not mature or healthy. I struggle, I want something better. Also I was always (paranoidly) afraid of offending the Gods and making them angry and hurt me. While most Christians are afraid of the same thing, I didn't think about the hell part. I thought about the idea of a God who would die for me, who would never turn me away, who would always forgive me when I fucked up, who would love me no matter what good or harm I did.

The point of views in the story are important. Mel (lol) focused a lot on Mary (Goddess into subdued woman's) story. The story isn't just about what Jesus was going through it was about what his mother was going through, what so many women go through raising their sons and then having to send them off to get killed or die. This was not so much about Mother-daughters but Mother-child love in generic sense was there.

There's a story somewhere in this great book I have of children and adults' Goddess Stories, and one of the stories is the Jesus myth retold about how this plant that gives milk raises her fish son and her fish son dies and then she gives birth to him again. I can understand that symbolically and I think people who carried the story and Gods understand it better than me. But Jesus' story doesn't deal in plant metaphors - well actually yes it does. But it shows some very real stuff going on. Stuff we all go through, stuff we identify with.

I am very angry and frantic worried about the pollution, the torture of animals and poeple, and the draining of peoples' lives that I depend on so I can have lots of stuff. Part of me doens't want to be a part of that bullshit anymore and I'm taking my own steps, inconsequential on a large scale but at the very least I can try not being involved in torture and slavery of legal and 'wage' kinds. Jesus was in a sense about what so many people are about - people who stand and say this bullshit isn't right. I don't want to shit on women, I don't want to shit on anyone. I want to look at others and stop separating myself from them and to live with others who don't separate from me and we can all see that we're a like. To live where laws are important but we are also flexible and using laws not because they're laws but because they're best for us to use at the time.

Jesus' story is every non-violent activist's story, Mary's story is every mother's story who loves her children. Maggie Dalen's story is (despite being massacred partially by patriarchy) the story of women and men who whored out, who had everyone tell them, 'you're shit' and who got a hand up to stop hurting themselves and letting others hurt them. Every person with scars no one wants to see who refuses to hide them.

I forget who told me , but an acquaintance once told me that Christianity in part became popular in the first century or few of Pagan societies because they offered equality to rich and poor, man and woman, etc... That's something pagan communities can lack just like everyone else, even when they are Matriarchal (although I much prefer today's Matriarchal societies to any Patriarchy past r present).


Point? No point.


This movie still sucked rotten eggs.

Also Lok I was annoyed at the way you discussed me 'her'. I feel often and in this thread like you're using my post as a 'hold man' uses a sheep's or 'womans' post in order to 'validate' it or use it to prove your idea. I felt that post was disrespectful and 'talking down' to me in nature. Just letting you in that I did not appreciate it whether intended or not.

Posted by: Lokmer Feb 22 2005, 01:44 AM
QUOTE (luck mermaid @ Feb 21 2005, 10:09 PM)
Also Lok I was annoyed at the way you discussed me 'her'. I feel often and in this thread like you're using my post as a 'hold man' uses a sheep's or 'womans' post in order to 'validate' it or use it to prove your idea. I felt that post was disrespectful and 'talking down' to me in nature. Just letting you in that I did not appreciate it whether intended or not.

Fortunately, I was not talking about you. I was referring to Anne Rice, whose review of "The Passion" Shadfox quoted and I quoted in return. You were not a subject of my reply at all.

So, no reason for offense! LeslieLook.gif

Have a better one
-Lokmer

Posted by: luck mermaid Feb 22 2005, 10:00 AM
Cool Cool thanks for clarifying that. FrogsToadBigGrin.gif

Posted by: LloydDobler Feb 22 2005, 11:19 AM
QUOTE (anony~mouse @ Feb 17 2005, 11:27 AM)
If it makes any of you feel better, every actor who's played Jesus has had some kind of horrible, deadly, highly improbable accident. Except Willem Dafoe, of course. Hmm...

Don't forget....

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0106453/

Posted by: Pseudonym Feb 23 2005, 04:16 AM
I identified Satan. He/she/it was hot.

woohoo.gif

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