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Open Forums for ExChristian.Net > Sex and Christianity > Stripping, Career Day, and 8th graders


Posted by: sexkitten Jan 14 2005, 12:44 PM
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=8&u=/ap/20050114/ap_on_fe_st/students_stripping

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SAN FRANCISCO - The principal of a Palo Alto middle school may not invite a popular speaker back to an annual career day after he told girls they could earn a good living as strippers.

Management consultant William Fried told eighth-graders at Jane Lathrop Stanford Middle School on Tuesday that stripping and exotic dancing can pay $250,000 or more per year, depending on their bust size.

"It's sick, but it's true," Fried said in an interview later. "The truth of the matter is you can earn a tremendous amount of money as an exotic dancer, if that's your desire."

Fried has given a popular 55-minute presentation, "The Secret of a Happy Life," at the school's career day the past three years. He counsels students to experiment with a variety of interests until they discover something they love and excel in.

But school principal Joseph Di Salvo said Fried may not be back next year.

The principal said Fried's comments to the class came after some of them asked him to expand on why he included "exotic dancing" on his list of 140 potential careers.

Fried spent about a minute answering questions, defining strippers and exotic dancers synonymously. According to Jason Garcia, 14, he told students: "For every 2 inches up there, you should get another $50,000 on your salary."

"A couple of students egged him and he took it hook, line and sinker," said Di Salvo, who also said the students took advantage of a substitute teacher overseeing the session.

"It's totally inappropriate," Di Salvo said. "It's not OK by me. I would want my presenters to kind of understand that they are coming into a career day for eighth-graders."

That stripping advice wasn't the only thing that riled parents. Di Salvo said one mother said she was outraged when her son announced that he was forgoing college for a field he loves: fishing.

"He really focused on finding what you really love to do," said Mariah Cannon, 13.

Fried, 64, said he does not think he offended any of the students: "Eighth-grade kids are not dumb," he said. "They are pretty worldly."


What are your thoughts on this article? How do you view stripping and exotic dancing as professions? Would you do it yourself? How would you feel about your adult children doing it? Or an adult telling your child that there is good money in it? Would your thoughts on it have been different when you were a Christian?

Discuss.

Posted by: Lokmer Jan 14 2005, 01:18 PM
Well, from what I can see there are about four different issues here:
1) Stripping
2) Stripping as a career
3) Carreer days in general
4) Career days for 8th graders

On stripping in general, I'm of the opinion that it's a practice that everyone should be well versed in, for a number of reasons: it increases body awareness and comfort with one's own sexuality, it attunes one to ones own sexual cues so that one can use them or turn them down as needed (which reduces the likelyhood of becoming a victim of one's own subconscious sexual signals), it is an excellent part of play between couples. Furthermore, stripping is about the tease, and the sexual tease is a lost art in our culture outside of advertising - and I consider that a great loss. Without the tease, sex becomes far more mundane than it would be otherwise - instant gratification and perfunctory sexuality is the dark side of liberated sexual thinking. When sex becomes just about the plumbing, it really isn't all that interesting.

On stripping as a career, my inner feminists are arguing wit each other. Wendytwitch.gif On the one hand, I have personally known and known of women who enjoy dancing and stripping and do it because it really is what they love. I also have known women (and more of them) who have done it for quick money or in sleazy places and find it quite degrading. The issues involved are delicate, adult, and thorny enough that it's as far beyond the comprehension of an 8th grader as is the moral implications of being an infantryman or a navy seal (of course, I haven't seen those careers protested loudly).

On career days in general...I must confess that I don't really get it. I find the aptitude tests they administer to be thought-provoking in their questions, but not so much in their scores. If we were in a school system where people were tracked into different high schools based on aptitude and life ambition (as is done in Germany) then we'd be on to something. But, as it stands, we have a social and educational system designed around the very simple proposition of prolonging adolescence beyond all previous limits. Nobody graduates from high school prepared to enter the work force unless they have also been preparing themselves outside of high school. In most cities in this country (excepting the few with strong vocational ed programs) people graduate prepared to go to school (CC or University).

Career days for eigth graders seem even less relevant. Most careers in this world - and the choice between them - require social and moral tradeoffs. If you want to be a clothing designer, you're entering a business that trades in prostitution on one side and slave labor on the other. Entering music or film, you'll be dealing with orgnaized crime. Entering education, you're in for a political career in which the next generation are the pawns in the political game. Entering manufacturing, you may be offered a job in a munitions factory - ditto for the physical and computational sciences. This is not to say that these careers are without merit - far from it - but people who want to participate in such businesses at any more than a novice level will be dealing with complex moral, ethical, and financial tradeoffs. Eighth graders should be made aware of the wonderous variety of potential carreers in our world, of course. They should be encouraged to explore. They should also be learning the art of ethics and decision-making (which they aren't). But "carreer days" have always seemed to me to be a gimicky cutesy way for educators to spend one or two days a year talking about things that should be part of normal classroom discourse.

I know that this is not much in the way of solid answers, but it's the best I could come up with on short notice LeslieLook.gif

-Lokmer

Posted by: The Acid Washed Messiah Jan 14 2005, 03:41 PM
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What are your thoughts on this article?
It wasn't very well written. It's obvious that the writer sides with the parents and administration rather than the speaker.

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How do you view stripping and exotic dancing as professions?
I view them as very short professions... maybe 10 years long; and that's only if the woman is in excellent shape, has a dedicated manager and no children. I don't attach any moral or ethical considerations to stripping or dancing at all. I'm not wired that way.

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Would you do it yourself?
Fuck yeah! If anyone is willing to pay a fat, hairy, Latino man $250K a year to get naked, I'm your guy!

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How would you feel about your adult children doing it?
My SO and I don't plan to breed, so that's moot.

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Or an adult telling your child that there is good money in it?
It's better than lying to them about there being a magical sky fairy watching them all the time. At least the earning potential of exotic dancers can be observed with my senses.

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Would your thoughts on it have been different when you were a Christian?
Actually, no. I've always thought Jesus heartily approved of the working gals. I showed my approval of them when I was a Christian too... one crumpled dollar bill at a time.

Posted by: woodsmoke Jan 14 2005, 04:14 PM
My brain's not working well enough to give this any kind of deep profound thought, so I'll just comment on the part of the article that really caught me.

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Di Salvo said one mother said she was outraged when her son announced that he was forgoing college for a field he loves: fishing.


And what, may I ask, is wrong with this?

If the kid doesn't want to go to college, then damn it, he shouldn't have to! It's his life! Better he spend it broke, happy, and long than miserable and potentially shorter.

Posted by: Biggles7268 Jan 14 2005, 10:26 PM
QUOTE (woodsmoke @ Jan 14 2005, 04:14 PM)
My brain's not working well enough to give this any kind of deep profound thought, so I'll just comment on the part of the article that really caught me.

QUOTE
Di Salvo said one mother said she was outraged when her son announced that he was forgoing college for a field he loves: fishing.


And what, may I ask, is wrong with this?

If the kid doesn't want to go to college, then damn it, he shouldn't have to! It's his life! Better he spend it broke, happy, and long than miserable and potentially shorter.

why does he have to forgo college to study fishing? If he loves to fish so much a career in the DNR or BLM would probably pay off.

As far as exotic dancing as a career.... a friend of mine has a sister who is a very highly paid dancer in New York. A couple years ago she bought her dad a brand spanking new sports car so yes there is a lot of money to be had. I can't comment on how happy she is in that life though, I've only met her in person once. Happiness in your chosen profession is more important than money.



I'm not to sure on it's appropriateness as a discussion topic for 8th graders unless your willing to touch on the darker side of the industry though. When talking about careers in school the kids should be made aware of the negatives as well as the positives in any profession.

Posted by: ~Dhampir:~ Jan 15 2005, 01:38 PM
That was the greatest thing I'd seen on the news in a while. At first I thought It was a typo, or a joke, but it was on there twice, with two different descriptions. And the guy was talking about it on stage! The best part, so far, they've only recieved one complaint about it.

Posted by: Cerise Jan 15 2005, 03:16 PM
QUOTE (woodsmoke @ Jan 14 2005, 04:14 PM)
If the kid doesn't want to go to college, then damn it, he shouldn't have to! It's his life! Better he spend it broke, happy, and long than miserable and potentially shorter.

I don't know how happy I would be broke. Actually, I don't think I'd be very happy at all broke, and my life would probably be shorter due to the starvation and not having a home or job thing that often comes along with being broke.

You are right, college isn't for everyone, and people that don't want to be there shouldn't go. But post-high-school education broadens your options until you find out what you really want to do. If you can make a living fishing and being happy, then go for it. However, the kind of living I want, I can't do it with fish. It depends on what you want out of life.

Some people just want to dick around and sit on the couch for the rest of their lives. Have a few of them in my tutoring placement, and they are going no where fast. I hate to see them, as they remind of my uncle, full of potential, dropped out and spent the rest of his life on welfare living in his mother's house with his brothers, bumming off the only one there that can actually hold down a job.

It's not a bright future.

As for stripping, I don't think it's a stable career choice, but it would probably work as a temporary thing until you figure out something long term. And if you have the body for it. Personally, my feet would ache after so many hours in stilettos.

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