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| Printable Version of Topic Click here to view this topic in its original format ExChristian.Net Open Forums > Sex and Christianity > Sexual Peak Posted by: michelle Feb 23 2004, 10:44 AM Okay so Im a 37 year old woman who's always heard the story that women reach their peak in their 30's, so I went looking to read if it was true or not. QUESTION: I have often heard that men reach sexual peak at 18 while women reach it at 35. Is it true? ANSWER from Dr. Sandor Gardos This is one of those sound bites that seems to have a life of its own. I have been hearing that for years, yet it is far from accurate. As far as I can make out, the origin of this oft-quoted statistic is a sudy that asked men & women of different ages how often they has orgasms. Because of societal messages, women often take longer to feel comfortable with sexuality or learn about their bodies. Many women dont learn how to have an orgasm until later in life. It really comes down to how you define "sexual peak". If it is measured by hormone levels, or ease of getting physically aroused, then BOTH men & women peak in their late teens to early 20's. If it is measured by sexual satisfaction, it comes later in life. Of course, there is a tremdous range in the age at which people feel that they are at their sexual peak. I think that reducing it to the ability to have orgasms easily is a poor definition. I have yet to meet a man or woman in their teens who can compare to an older man or woman in terms of sexual skills or sophistication. That was only one doctors opinion. I didnt mean to piss off any teens here. But what does anyone think about this sexual peak thing? Im wondering about the term this doctor used when he said because of SOCIETAL MESSAGES, woman often take longer... Could you also throw in there because of CHRISTIAN MESSAGES or what? On a side note, when I was a Christian it was during my years in AA. I had 2 different sponsors during that time and one of them had never had an orgasm in her life. Im not putting the woman down but I do find this to be mysterious. She grew up in the Catholic school system. She was not ugly and fianically independant and yet she couldnt find a husband which was very much her goal in life. The other sponsor was also raised in the Catholic school system, she was married & not at all fianacially independant, she attracted men like flys. Whats up with that? I guess its good to remember that both women were in contact with only Christian men. Anyway, any comments about this sexual peak thing? Posted by: Erik the Awful Feb 23 2004, 10:50 AM Maybe Christian men don't give good orgasms... Maybe most christians are so repressed that they fear pleasure. I suspect the doctors scientific observation regarding hormone levels is correct. But harmones are only one aspect of "sexual peak." There is an important mental aspect. Sometimes it takes us a while to figure out how to allow, give, and receive, pleasure... Just like really really good sex, that takes time... ...my $0.02 contribution... Posted by: michelle Feb 23 2004, 11:07 AM Well that clears that right the fuck up doesnt it. Thanks for giving me the laugh of the week. That doctor also has a section on what do to do if your partner goes Christian on ya. Posted by: Bruce Feb 23 2004, 11:24 AM Two statements: 1. Practice makes perfect 2. An woman over 30 can rock your world Posted by: 603269726 Feb 23 2004, 03:31 PM well... i know back when i wuz 18 i had an erectile disfunction... i couldn't keep it down.... my girlfriend at the time wasn't so much into sex as i wuz... now that she's 30 she iz alot like i was... (not that i'm complaning mind you) ;) Posted by: Gypsy Feb 23 2004, 05:06 PM I don't know if it's a combination of physical, mental, emotional and societal maturity or just plain ol' experience, but as a woman in my mid-30s, I can honestly say that, even though my body may not be as slender as it was when I was a teen, I definitely feel more comfortable in it, and I think that sex, at least for me, has greatly improved with age (or maybe my choice of partners is just improving! ) Posted by: Lanakila Feb 23 2004, 05:41 PM I think the learning about our bodies thing definetly must have something to do with it. Christians are repressed sexually for the most part, or at least they act like, and talk like they are. I suggested on a Christian board that waiting until you get married to have sex is probably not a good idea, and that the Bible is wrong on that. I was promply ignored. Posted by: michelle Feb 23 2004, 07:41 PM You were promptly ignored. Yep, they dismissed you because you were drawing attention to one of their problems. Bottom line? You choose to live, they choose to be dead. Assholes. Who needs em? I mean really, who needs them. I am never getting married again. Once in awhile my boyfreind gets on his marriage kick but the answer is still no. Well, marriage would make it better he says. How is marriage gonna make it better? Honestly where do men get these ideas from? Maybe thats how they feel theyve REALLY made the committment or something I dont friggin know. What is this "making it official" bull-shit about? I have no clue. Do they think they dont got the girl until marriage? Its not like Im going anywhere. What is this "making it official" bull shit about? He hasnt been looking at the site lately so I can say these things. Not that I havent said these things to him anyway. Our local newspaper had an article called Bride Phobia. Apparently, I am not at all alone on this issue. More & more women are choosing not to marry. I could see it if I had money or something but Im broke. Posted by: michelle Feb 23 2004, 07:48 PM I love being broke. I get my clothes from the second hand shop but thats only so my kids can have brand name sneakers & stuff. I never feel like a martyer. A woman never looked so sexy in second hand clothes. Im thinking of that song by Prince called Raspberry Beret. Posted by: Lanakila Feb 23 2004, 08:18 PM I shop for second hand clothes too, or walmart brand. I am probably never going to get married again either. Of course I am still married, and in the process of a divorce. But I just don't see the need, except of course for the tax breaks that I am about to lose. Posted by: michelle Feb 23 2004, 08:58 PM Oh yeah the tax breaks. My ex use to be able to claim 3 people now he can only claim the kids not me too. He had a fit when I told him to take my name off his car insurance policies because the price went up. What the fuck, I cant have a car too? I guess he expected me to stay on foot. Im longing for the day he has another relationship because without a partner people tend to be mean & selfish. He did have a woman who was a single mom for awhile but it didnt work out. Theres alot more female single parents than there are male ones, you would think he has alot to pick from. I probably should stop talking about his personal life because come to think of it, it actually is none of my business and who knows what he does. He doesnt get into my personal life, I should stay out of his. Boy ya learn somethin new everyday Posted by: Reach Feb 23 2004, 09:15 PM Michelle said... QUOTE Okay so Im a 37 year old woman who's always heard the story that women reach their peak in their 30's, so I went looking to read if it was true or not. QUESTION: I have often heard that men reach sexual peak at 18 while women reach it at 35. Is it true? Back on topic... I believe what happens with women is that they are suddenly thrust into a demand for more quantity, having (hopefully) already figured out the details in relation to quality. That's how it has been for me AND every woman I have ever known who has hit this age bracket, somewhere around 30 to 35. The good news is that this peak of heightened sexual desire lasts for several years. Posted by: Matthew Feb 23 2004, 09:19 PM I heard several times and believed it up to this minute that men reach their sexual peak in their late teens and early 20's while women reach it in their 30's. In my early 20's this was a source of frustration for me because I thought that no Christian girl would dare even give me the time of day until her biological clock started ticking and she wanted to settle down. Personally, this apparent mismatch between sexual clocks was always a thorny issue for me. I mean, really, how could Yahweh be so short-sighted for programming something so stupid? This was a question that really vexed me for a while. Wouldn't the more intelligent option be to synchronize the biological clocks and so men and women simultaneously reach their sexual peaks? I also began to view this as sexist on Yahweh's part. I thought that if a Christian guy wants to get married and to relieve his sexual peak in the process and the Christian girl wasn't interested, then the guy was essentially out of luck. However, when the girl's biological clock starts bonging, then it's serious business and the Christian girl expects a husband to come along and for guys to be interested and to drop everything for the girl and support her. A girl simply couldn't be bothered if her clock wasn't chiming. Matthew Posted by: ericf Feb 23 2004, 09:19 PM What we need is a way to get all the early 20s men together with the mid 30s women. I hope that my current level of desire doesn't change. I am pretty darn happy with it but if it is going to go down why the heck am I wasting the best years of my life single!? Posted by: Matthew Feb 23 2004, 09:32 PM QUOTE What we need is a way to get all the early 20s men together with the mid 30s women Interesting idea. I am not opposed to attempting to satisfy a woman in her 30's. Matthew Posted by: Gypsy Feb 24 2004, 02:59 AM I think that the MEN want to get married because they don't want to "lose" us to any other influences, be it a job across the country, another partner, or our own wanderlust. I am currently in my third marriage. After my first marriage ended, I vowed I would never get married again, and indeed, my second husband proposed four times before I finally agreed to marry him (turns out I reallyshould have kept telling him NO.) I had always told my current husband that marriage is NOT one of my goals, and indeed it never was, but he managed to convince me that our kids would feel more secure in our relationship if we were married, and he seemed to think we would get more respect from others by being married. I didn't agree (nor did I care about the respect others might or might not choose to give us) but out of respect for how much it meant to HIM, I agreed. I would have stayed with him and loved him forever, anyhow, even without that piece of paper, but since that piece of paper meant so much to him and I love him and want us to remain happy together, I agreed to marry him. Posted by: ericf Feb 24 2004, 05:27 AM QUOTE Interesting idea. I am not opposed to attempting to satisfy a woman in her 30's. It will be a tough job keeping up with their libidos; but it will be the toughest job you'll ever love. Posted by: michelle Feb 24 2004, 07:02 AM I am seriously against marriage for myself. If getting married should become so important to my boyfreind, lets say if he got to the point where it was either I marry him or he leave? Pack your bags & dont let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. I feel the same about ever having another child, I wont do it. All of these things were discussed prior to moving in together, dont go back on your word now. I realize that people do change their minds though and thats fine but I cant & wont give these things to a man so if they become that important, see ya around, have a nice life. And if & when these things do become that important you really should let the person go otherwise youll get blamed for the shit later on. I dont want anybody sacrificing anything for me thats for sure. He says he cant have kids but that has never been backed up by a doctor, he just assumes it from the fact that it never happened during 10 yrs of no birth control with 2 women. Somehow everybodys HIV negative. Man were we ever lucky. Posted by: Lanakila Feb 24 2004, 10:44 AM QUOTE (Matthew @ Feb 24 2004, 12:32 AM) QUOTE What we need is a way to get all the early 20s men together with the mid 30s women Interesting idea. I am not opposed to attempting to satisfy a woman in her 30's. Matthew Some of us are insatiable. Being single is going to suck in many ways, and this is just one of them. Shit, I better get used to my right hand huh? Posted by: michelle Feb 24 2004, 11:00 AM Posted by: Starflier Feb 25 2004, 03:12 AM Sexual peak???? Hell I haven't even reached mine yet I don't think. Let's see, I started pushing my own buttons & having a great old orgasmic time of it at around...oh....age 8 or 9 or so, quite by accident at first. Then getting used to my boyfriend's body way later on in my late teens & early 20s was interesting but never as good for me tho I loved him with a passion. I guess I got spoiled by my own naturalness. And that from a strict good little Catholic girl. But as they say, How ya gonna keep em down on the farm, after they've seen Pareee? Well, guilt & all, I kept on doing it & peaking onward anyway. However it did get way better & better with or without men into my 20s, 30s, 40, 50s, 60s. And well,.... I'm kind of back to being a virgin now & taking things into my own hands the past 15 or so years due to my late husband's long term illnesses. That likely won't last long though now that I'm a widow, single & free again.It's kinda scarey thinking of getting it on with an elder man now though. Gee, I might kill the guy if my own "self" activity lately is any indication of the heights my sexual peak has reached. I know an older woman who had two old guys have heart attacks & die in her bed. Could I handle that? Not sure. But now that I'm thinking of dating again I've really got to consider the mens' ages & fragility, you know? I mean my sick late husband couldn't handle me anymore, what're the chances another guy his age could? Maybe a younger man? Posted by: Lanakila Feb 25 2004, 07:55 AM Maybe thats the ticket. Maybe not in there 20's though, hehe. Posted by: ericf Feb 25 2004, 08:12 AM lol... Are you rich Starflier? I could use a sugar-momma! I think it is good to know that sexual desire doesn't dissapear at any point even to the age where you are killing your partners. I am being very careful not to create a mental image here though. Do you know how many men would love to die having sex? That would be great. And given the other ways of dying that has to be way at the top of the list. Drowning in my own vomit is right near the bottom. Although if you really think you would kill the guy maybe you need to find a younger source of loving. I wouldn't recommend combing the college campuses either but there has to be some men that can survive your lovin' out there. I would be curious to know if men are the same way? I sure hope we don't lose interest... Starflyer... are the men still trying to get it on? Even if they have to be careful? I hope I am not a frail old man. There are so many more women than men at that age... I could be the ultimate 80 year old player. Posted by: TalkingDonkey Feb 25 2004, 01:08 PM Ah... to come and go at the same time would be best. Right under that is drowning in beer and right under that is stroking out right after taking a very satisfying dump. I think the bottom of the list is made up of incurable parasitic infestations, getting pulled feet-first into a low-speed woodchipper, and being the guy on the bottom of an impaling stake. Posted by: Starflier Feb 25 2004, 06:05 PM QUOTE (ericf @ Feb 25 2004, 08:12 AM) lol... Are you rich Starflier? I could use a sugar-momma! I think it is good to know that sexual desire doesn't dissapear at any point even to the age where you are killing your partners. I am being very careful not to create a mental image here though. Do you know how many men would love to die having sex? That would be great. And given the other ways of dying that has to be way at the top of the list. Drowning in my own vomit is right near the bottom. Although if you really think you would kill the guy maybe you need to find a younger source of loving. I wouldn't recommend combing the college campuses either but there has to be some men that can survive your lovin' out there. I would be curious to know if men are the same way? I sure hope we don't lose interest... Starflyer... are the men still trying to get it on? Even if they have to be careful? I hope I am not a frail old man. There are so many more women than men at that age... I could be the ultimate 80 year old player. Am I rich? I'll never tell. I would also love to die having excellent sex, so it's not about being a male you know. Are the men my age or older still trying to get it on you ask? Of course they are, silly. Those that are still capable, that is. Tee hee, this reminds me of meeting an old man in my mom's nursing home a year or so ago. He could barely walk around the place & only then in very short wobbly steps. But he managed to flirt shamelessly with my 91yo mom & the other incapacitated old women in there. He also didn't hesitate a second to stumble over to delightedly & eagerly visit with & ogle my young neice & my daughter, both sexy younger women. Too bad he died a month or so later. But he was going great guns right up to the end. So there's hope for everyone. Even my 92-yo old mom still flirts with all the men & boys & tells sex jokes she make up all the time. So it runs in the family I guess. I hope it never runs out either. Posted by: Gypsy Feb 25 2004, 06:14 PM Thanks for renewing my faith in getting older, Starflier! It's nice to hear the way it will be from someone who's there! Posted by: michelle Feb 25 2004, 10:03 PM Starflier, Heres my conversation with an 80 year old man today. Him: "you know how old I am? Me: No, how old are ya? Him: Im 80 years old, wanna know how I did it? Me: How? Him: chasing sweet things like you His hands were all black from automobile oil. 80 friggin years old and the guy is still crawling underneath cars fixin em! I'll never make it that far. A note on sex and the mand age. Recently I had a 20 year old hit on me, at first Im thinkin its probably just innocent flirting boy was I wrong. Im 37 years old!!! First of all Im not available but truthfully it is very flattering. As for me, Ive been known to check out guys who are probably 50! Theres this one who looks like a younger version of Paul Newman. You gotta see him Starflier! My mothers about 57 now I think, she met a guy last year, 62 I think. You oughta see these 2 go, theyre having the time of their lives. We are being very alive on this thread Starflier, you know what that may bring dont cha Posted by: Starflier Feb 25 2004, 10:21 PM QUOTE (Gypsy @ Feb 25 2004, 06:14 PM) Thanks for renewing my faith in getting older, Starflier! It's nice to hear the way it will be from someone who's there! Not a problem, Gypsy. Love & sex between two people are natural follow throughs no matter what the age. For me tho, the love & chemistry's gotta be there, otherwise no dice. Posted by: Starflier Feb 25 2004, 10:32 PM QUOTE (michelle @ Feb 25 2004, 10:03 PM) Starflier, Heres my conversation with an 80 year old man today. Him: "you know how old I am? Me: No, how old are ya? Him: Im 80 years old, wanna know how I did it? Me: How? Him: chasing sweet things like you We are being very alive on this thread Starflier, you know what that may bring dont cha Well now there's life in that 80yo mechanic boy yet I guess. Sounds like your mom has met her 62yo match as well. I've got many women friends my age who're being very assertive in their search & approaches to men & some who've found their man & having a great old time of it. I'm not exactly out beating the bushes to find anyone tho myself. I'm in no hurry. If I meet Mr. Goodbar during my normal daily life, that's fine. If not, that's okay too . Not sure what you meant about being alive here or what that might bring though. Am I just dense? Posted by: Matthew Feb 26 2004, 12:23 AM QUOTE Maybe thats the ticket. Maybe not in there 20's though, hehe Damn! I was born 1 generation or so too late! I am too old for Starflier although I wish I was in her age range. Perhaps someone who described herself as "insatible?" Matthew Posted by: Lanakila Feb 26 2004, 06:45 AM QUOTE (Matthew @ Feb 26 2004, 03:23 AM) QUOTE Maybe thats the ticket. Maybe not in there 20's though, hehe Damn! I was born 1 generation or so too late! I am too old for Starflier although I wish I was in her age range. Perhaps someone who described herself as "insatible?" Matthew Too old for starflier? I think you got that ass backwards Matthew. I know when guys turn 40 they are supposed to get 2 20 years olds. Maybe I might need to do that too. I get flirted with by way young men all the time myself. Even my 11 year old son told me yesterday that I don't look near my age. Of course I fight like hell hehe. I am trying to corrupt young Christian men right now though. I have to keep up on my EAC credits you know. Posted by: bob Feb 26 2004, 08:07 AM QUOTE (michelle @ Feb 23 2004, 10:44 AM) QUESTION: I have often heard that men reach sexual peak at 18 while women reach it at 35. Is it true? Michelle, as a man, I reached my sexual peak during my life between 14 and 44...the whole time I was at my peak. Now, at 46...I think...I have really noticed a swift decline in my libido. Very disappointing for the wife, since she, at 45...I think...has experienced a surge in hers. Porn doesn't even do it for me anymore. I don't even bother looking at it anymore. Frustrating, yet now I do manage to get more things done during the day. Posted by: TalkingDonkey Feb 26 2004, 08:21 AM QUOTE Im 37 years old!!! So what? The woman I lost my virginity to was 36. I became her "boy toy" for almost a year in my mid-teens. Man, oh man... the things she taught me! They still serve me well. Now that I'm 29, I guess this means I could go for up to a 51 year old woman. Same age difference, right? Posted by: Starflier Feb 26 2004, 10:05 AM QUOTE (Matthew @ Feb 26 2004, 12:23 AM) QUOTE Maybe thats the ticket. Maybe not in there 20's though, hehe Damn! I was born 1 generation or so too late! I am too old for Starflier although I wish I was in her age range. Perhaps someone who described herself as "insatible?" Matthew Too old for me???? Haven't you got that backwards? Or did I read that right? Posted by: Starflier Feb 26 2004, 10:22 AM QUOTE (Lanakila @ Feb 26 2004, 06:45 AM) Too old for starflier? I think you got that ass backwards Matthew. I know when guys turn 40 they are supposed to get 2 20 years olds. Maybe I might need to do that too. I get flirted with by way young men all the time myself. Even my 11 year old son told me yesterday that I don't look near my age. Of course I fight like hell hehe. I am trying to corrupt young Christian men right now though. I have to keep up on my EAC credits you know. I guess I wasn't the only one who took Matthew's post as "backwards". Who knows tho, he might be one of those really old souls I've heard about. I once lived next door to a middle aged couple. When the husband told his wife he wanted two 20s since he was then way over 40, she told him he'd better think again as he was no longer wired for 220. But for yourself, I know of a woman who did exactly that. She got two way younger men to keep her satisfied for quite a while. She was in her 50s at the time. Now she's older & living with her way younger tall, dark, handsome boyfriend. He's still there after several years now so I guess it's working just fine for both of them. So whatever floats your boat, I guess. I'm way out of the live-in or marriage phases of my life. No more of that for me. I love having my whole new house all to myself these days & plan to keep it that way. It's really nice to look younger than one's years tho, as you say you do, isn't it? A new male doctor I went to a couple of months ago thought I was in my 40s. He thought I was just lazy because I told him I don't have a job anymore & no intention of getting one. My chart shows my age & that I'm retired now but I guess he missed seeing that. He was shocked when I told him my age & then looked at the chart. Gee my hair's all grey by now, how did he miss that??? Well, good luck with your christian men corruption quest. Sounds like a real interesting pastime. What are EAC credits anyway? Never saw that before. Posted by: Starflier Feb 26 2004, 10:35 AM QUOTE (bob @ Feb 26 2004, 08:07 AM) QUOTE (michelle @ Feb 23 2004, 10:44 AM) QUESTION: I have often heard that men reach sexual peak at 18 while women reach it at 35. Is it true? Michelle, as a man, I reached my sexual peak during my life between 14 and 44...the whole time I was at my peak. Now, at 46...I think...I have really noticed a swift decline in my libido. Very disappointing for the wife, since she, at 45...I think...has experienced a surge in hers. Porn doesn't even do it for me anymore. I don't even bother looking at it anymore. Frustrating, yet now I do manage to get more things done during the day. This I find very interesting indeed. Just a word of caution tho. Better keep a long leash on your wife, my friend. My two sons are your age. The older one is having the same problem, he recently told me. Too bad too because he's only been married to his second, way younger wife for a couple of years now. He drinks Red Bull tho & says it works for him. He's also changed his diet a lot which is helping & cutting out drinking altogether now too. Anyway good thing you have a lot of other things to do to keep you busy. But it could become a problem with your wife. Depends on the depth of love & other mutual interests between you I would guess. My younger son, a year younger than his older brother, is unmarried & permanently disabled from a spinal accident. So he's out of commission for the duration. But no matter because he's raising his 11yo daughter by himself & has his hands full with her budding sexuality & the boys she's attracting. Posted by: Lanakila Feb 26 2004, 11:12 AM EAC is a joke. It stands for Evil Atheist Conspiracy. This site talks about it: http://www.cyberdespot.com/eac.html Posted by: Matthew Feb 26 2004, 05:16 PM God am I embarrassed! What I clearly meant to say is that I am way too young for Starflier. She could almost be my grandmother. That was an editing gaffe on my part. Sorry to all who read it. It was a simple gaffe, I swear to any deity! Matthew Posted by: bob Feb 26 2004, 05:27 PM QUOTE (Matthew @ Feb 26 2004, 05:16 PM) God am I embarrassed! What I clearly meant to say is that I am way too young for Starflier. She could almost be my grandmother. That was an editing gaffe on my part. Sorry to all who read it. It was a simple gaffe, I swear to any deity! Matthew Let me be the deity today Matthew. I never get to be the deity. Posted by: Matthew Feb 26 2004, 05:40 PM QUOTE Let me be the deity today Matthew. I never get to be the deity. Go for it! You can run against the Christian incumbent! Hell, I'll be your campaign manager! Matthew Posted by: ericf Feb 26 2004, 06:38 PM I am 23 but I will not say I am too young for ANYONE! I have $30,000 in college loans that need to be paid off somehow! Posted by: Starflier Feb 26 2004, 07:35 PM QUOTE (Lanakila @ Feb 26 2004, 11:12 AM) EAC is a joke. It stands for Evil Atheist Conspiracy. This site talks about it: http://www.cyberdespot.com/eac.html What a hoot!! Posted by: Starflier Feb 26 2004, 07:41 PM QUOTE (Matthew @ Feb 26 2004, 05:16 PM) God am I embarrassed! What I clearly meant to say is that I am way too young for Starflier. She could almost be my grandmother. That was an editing gaffe on my part. Sorry to all who read it. It was a simple gaffe, I swear to any deity! Matthew Okay then put your left hand on the Word of Goddess Hole-y Book & swear that you're telling the truth, the whole truth & nothing but the truth so help you Goddess Almighty...A-Women. Well...you did say ANY deity. Posted by: Starflier Feb 26 2004, 07:43 PM QUOTE (bob @ Feb 26 2004, 05:27 PM) QUOTE (Matthew @ Feb 26 2004, 05:16 PM) God am I embarrassed! What I clearly meant to say is that I am way too young for Starflier. She could almost be my grandmother. That was an editing gaffe on my part. Sorry to all who read it. It was a simple gaffe, I swear to any deity! Matthew Let me be the deity today Matthew. I never get to be the deity. Geez Bob, you'd make a great deity. How could anyone miss that? Your avatar looks like it came straight out of Easter Island. Talk about your deitized Giants in the Earth. Posted by: Starflier Feb 26 2004, 07:46 PM QUOTE (Matthew @ Feb 26 2004, 05:40 PM) QUOTE Let me be the deity today Matthew. I never get to be the deity. Go for it! You can run against the Christian incumbent! Hell, I'll be your campaign manager! Matthew OH cool...I'd vote for Deity Bob. Or would it be Almighty Bob? Even an Easter Island statue would be better than what we've got now. Or better yet let's just air drop an Easter Island stone face on the Xtian incumbent instead. Posted by: Starflier Feb 26 2004, 07:48 PM QUOTE (ericf @ Feb 26 2004, 06:38 PM) I am 23 but I will not say I am too young for ANYONE! I have $30,000 in college loans that need to be paid off somehow! $30k? Is that all? Posted by: ericf Feb 26 2004, 08:03 PM Yeah, I had lots of grants and scholarships I burned away at $34k per year for three years before transfering schools and losing all those credits. By the time I got settled and started to make enough money to pay for my education out of my own pocket (as opposed to my future pocket with interest) I was in the hole for $30k. That wasn't much when I was going to be a computer engineer. But now that I found out I want to teach... that is a year's pay before taxes! Oh well, if I can't find a sugar-momma I will try pimping myself on some street corners. If that doesn't work I might just have to pay them off with my *gasp* job! Posted by: Doug2 Feb 26 2004, 08:06 PM Eric same with me! I started off as a computer engineer and burned up $30k in debt. Posted by: Starflier Feb 26 2004, 08:13 PM QUOTE (ericf @ Feb 26 2004, 08:03 PM) Yeah, I had lots of grants and scholarships I burned away at $34k per year for three years before transfering schools and losing all those credits. By the time I got settled and started to make enough money to pay for my education out of my own pocket (as opposed to my future pocket with interest) I was in the hole for $30k. That wasn't much when I was going to be a computer engineer. But now that I found out I want to teach... that is a year's pay before taxes! Oh well, if I can't find a sugar-momma I will try pimping myself on some street corners. If that doesn't work I might just have to pay them off with my *gasp* job! Just a tip, Erik. If you want to find a sugar momma, change your avatar. That guy looks long dead & buried like back in the civil war days. Even the guys I date aren't that old. Posted by: Starflier Feb 26 2004, 08:18 PM QUOTE (Starflier @ Feb 26 2004, 10:05 AM) QUOTE (Matthew @ Feb 26 2004, 12:23 AM) QUOTE Maybe thats the ticket. Maybe not in there 20's though, hehe Damn! I was born 1 generation or so too late! I am too old for Starflier although I wish I was in her age range. Perhaps someone who described herself as "insatible?" Matthew Too old for me???? Haven't you got that backwards? Or did I read that right? Hey Matthew, All is not lost. I think your avatar & mine could get in on. He looks like he could pitch a long ball out there to mine or hit a home run even. They could have a real ball so to speak. Now if yours was was a golfer I could write something about a hole-in-one but I won't cuz I'm too bashful. Posted by: ericf Feb 26 2004, 08:25 PM Oh, so that's how it is? All about the "size" of your avatar? Admittedly, Emperor Norton wasn't the sexiest Emperor but power isn't even a little bit sexy? Okay, he was a crazy civil war era guy... but... alright I can't even think of a good but. Maybe I will find a better image to show who I am. I admit that his looks don't express the beauty of his ideas. Hmm, I wonder if I can find a scanned picture of myself... that could be fun. I'm not into sports myself... but I am willing to learn some bedroom golf. Posted by: michelle Feb 26 2004, 09:27 PM Bob, I hear ya. But a decline and a total absence are two different things. Have you ever heard the expression: "If you dont use it, you lose it"? Well its true. I know because I was alone for awhile once and so depressed I didnt even get with myself. I didnt even think it would work anymore, somehow somebody came along to wake me from this long horrible sleep and thats what I meant to Starflier when I said being alive because sometimes people die for awhile. Sad but true. Things are better now. The sex drive goes when depression hits, Im not saying youre depressed but thats how it was for me and sex like everything else probably goes up and down, relationships in general are like that. Nobody can be getting along constantly. I have associations that are like that too, you like somebody some days and some days you dont. I wonder if this quote sheds any light onto it... Compelled by the urge to pass on genetic material to the next generation, the sexes must often cooperate in mating and parenting, but each sex cooperates only under duress because females and males operate under different reproductive rules set down in opposing directions eons ago. Like an open wound that never heals, the conflict between males and females will never be resolved because the evolutionary interests of the two sexes are forever locked in opposing position. There is no right or wrong here, no sex better than the other, just two types of individuals trying to win in the game of reproductive sucess. The ground rules of battle include cooperation, conflict, and exploitation, and both sexes use these tactics equally. -Meredith F, Small 1993 Alright, so what about us old folks who dont want to reproduce anymore? What are we suppose to do? Make love for the sheer pleasure of it is all I can guess. No, I dont think the sex drive goes up for us older women. The sex is better but I wouldnt say the drive goes up. There arent any obsessions involved in committment. People who have affairs are keeping things in secret and so they think the drive went up but not really. Thats what the chick says in that book When Society Becomes An Addict. Anyway Im no sex expert. Im just glad that I have orgasms because some women do not. Im only making guesses about most of this. Posted by: Matthew Feb 26 2004, 09:40 PM QUOTE I am 23 but I will not say I am too young for ANYONE! I have $30,000 in college loans that need to be paid off somehow! Seriously, I don't think I am too young. Even for Starflier! I believe strongly that after 18 anything goes romantically or sexually. I fully support a 18 year old guy and a 40 year old woman if they are in love with each other or a 20 year old girl and a 37 year old man together. Why this social stigma over age? Matthew Posted by: ericf Feb 26 2004, 09:59 PM Allow me to be honest. I really have nothing against older women but my brain desires younger women. I recognize this as a genetic need to reproduce. As such I am able to say to myself... I find 20-30 year old women most attractive because they could have children with me. Now, does this mean I would have any problems having a sexual relationship with a much older woman? Not at all! I still find older women attractive! But my biological priorities would hinder the intimacy of that relationship because of my desire to father offspring. If the relationship was built on the understanding that I would, at a later time, seek out a younger woman to settle down with I would be comfortable with it. If it was built on the misunderstanding that I would never desire an intimate relationship with a woman that could have my children, I would feel ethically wrong with that. This is as best as I can break down my mental understanding at this time. But I am pretty sure this is what is going on in there. Posted by: Starflier Feb 26 2004, 10:40 PM QUOTE (ericf @ Feb 26 2004, 08:25 PM) I'm not into sports myself... but I am willing to learn some bedroom golf. You mean like bed hockey? Posted by: Starflier Feb 26 2004, 11:11 PM QUOTE (michelle @ Feb 26 2004, 09:27 PM) I didnt even think it would work anymore, somehow somebody came along to wake me from this long horrible sleep and thats what I meant to Starflier when I said being alive because sometimes people die for awhile. Sad but true. Things are better now. The sex drive goes when depression hits, Im not saying youre depressed but thats how it was for me and sex like everything else probably goes up and down, relationships in general are like that. Nobody can be getting along constantly. I have associations that are like that too, you like somebody some days and some days you dont. I wonder if this quote sheds any light onto it... Compelled by the urge to pass on genetic material to the next generation, the sexes must often cooperate in mating and parenting, but each sex cooperates only under duress because females and males operate under different reproductive rules set down in opposing directions eons ago. Like an open wound that never heals, the conflict between males and females will never be resolved because the evolutionary interests of the two sexes are forever locked in opposing position. There is no right or wrong here, no sex better than the other, just two types of individuals trying to win in the game of reproductive sucess. The ground rules of battle include cooperation, conflict, and exploitation, and both sexes use these tactics equally. -Meredith F, Small 1993 Alright, so what about us old folks who dont want to reproduce anymore? What are we suppose to do? Make love for the sheer pleasure of it is all I can guess. No, I dont think the sex drive goes up for us older women. The sex is better but I wouldnt say the drive goes up. There arent any obsessions involved in committment. People who have affairs are keeping things in secret and so they think the drive went up but not really. Thats what the chick says in that book When Society Becomes An Addict. Anyway Im no sex expert. Im just glad that I have orgasms because some women do not. Im only making guesses about most of this. Hmmmi... interesting. I was deadly depressed for a long time after my husband died, I lost my home, family, friends & long term community a few years ago. I haven't a clue what brought me back to life again. Just time & a natural healing process I guess. It wasn't a man or any love life tho. Except maybe I learned to love myself again somehow. Anyway I see what you meant about being alive now. Now that's really something to think about. I hadn't thought of myself as being that "alive" anymore really. Kind of gives me a new perspective to ponder on. Like your relationship analogy though I can relate. There are days I can't stand my own company & other days I really enjoy being alone myself. Most of the time it's somewhere in between though. I'm still "other" oriented though. I doubt I will live long or healthfully without a love relationship. Some need that more than others I guess. I suppose the AA people would call that co-dependence. I doubt that's always true though. InterdependAnce is more like it, which is what you described as I see it as truly a "dAnce". Meredith Small's stuff sounds pretty grim though. I'm too much of an incurable romantic to think of it that way. What indeed are we older people who don't want kids anymore supposed to do with our sex drive? I love what the white-haired elder couple next door to me did. When I first moved here over a year ago, I noticed it right away. They have a small, luxurient, well manicured front lawn. In the corner of it nearest to my house, the man created a large heart-shape. He plants new flowers in it every Spring that bloom all summer & fall. It's for his wife, Susie, he said. Now that's what I call a long-lasting romance. Posted by: Starflier Feb 26 2004, 11:23 PM QUOTE (Matthew @ Feb 26 2004, 09:40 PM) Seriously, I don't think I am too young. Even for Starflier! I believe strongly that after 18 anything goes romantically or sexually. I fully support a 18 year old guy and a 40 year old woman if they are in love with each other or a 20 year old girl and a 37 year old man together. Why this social stigma over age? Matthew I think there's more of a social stigma against younger men & older women than there is about younger women with older men. My older sister & her 5 years older husband live in a Sun City golf/tennis active retirement community. There's plenty of men living there older than her husband who're either living with or married to way younger women. Some of the 70yo men have 30yo wives. Of course the men have money which may be part of the attraction there but not all of it I don't think. A 30yo woman wouldn't want some over-the-hill codger who couldn't perform or keep up with her I don't think. Most of those men are very athletic & active into their elder years as my sister's golfer husband still is. There's relatively few elder women there tho with way younger men. Maybe a few years younger but not 20-30+ years younger. So I see the difference there all the time. I often wonder what the big deal about that is. It's almost like a stigmatism against older women. I really hate that. Posted by: Starflier Feb 26 2004, 11:39 PM QUOTE (ericf @ Feb 26 2004, 09:59 PM) Allow me to be honest. I really have nothing against older women but my brain desires younger women. I recognize this as a genetic need to reproduce. As such I am able to say to myself... I find 20-30 year old women most attractive because they could have children with me. Now, does this mean I would have any problems having a sexual relationship with a much older woman? Not at all! I still find older women attractive! But my biological priorities would hinder the intimacy of that relationship because of my desire to father offspring. If the relationship was built on the understanding that I would, at a later time, seek out a younger woman to settle down with I would be comfortable with it. If it was built on the misunderstanding that I would never desire an intimate relationship with a woman that could have my children, I would feel ethically wrong with that. This is as best as I can break down my mental understanding at this time. But I am pretty sure this is what is going on in there. Sounds reasonable to me. It's only natural a younger man would want a younger woman to have a family with One of my daughters is married to a man 12 years older than her. My oldest son is married to a woman 15 years younger than him. ultimately. that would be the risk an older woman like myself would have about a younger man related to baby-making. I wouldn't want to get attached to someone who would one day leave me for a younger woman to have a family with. What a huge disappointment that would be. I'd probably never get over it. I might even die of being broken-hearted. It's the same with men older than me though too. I mean my husband was 8 years my senior & he's dead. Also he lost his sexual ability in 1995, five years befoe he expired. So the same kind of loss could still happen to me since women seem to live far longer than men do on the average. In the widowed peoples' groups Ive attended the women outnumber the men by at least 3 to 1. At the dances the men are told to dance with the other single women, not just the woman they came with for the men naturally have their pick of the women. It's just not fair & it's a greater risk for me either way. But not nearly as much so for men my age or older or even men far younger than me for that matter. Posted by: Matthew Feb 26 2004, 11:55 PM QUOTE I think there's more of a social stigma against younger men & older women than there is about younger women with older men. What is the origin of this stigma? This stigma can cause some heartbreak because there are probably folks who can't be together as a couple as the result of shame stemming from this kind of stigma. I hope this stigma is not Christian or even Victorian in origin. Matthew Posted by: Starflier Feb 27 2004, 01:00 AM QUOTE (Matthew @ Feb 26 2004, 11:55 PM) QUOTE I think there's more of a social stigma against younger men & older women than there is about younger women with older men. What is the origin of this stigma? This stigma can cause some heartbreak because there are probably folks who can't be together as a couple as the result of shame stemming from this kind of stigma. I hope this stigma is not Christian or even Victorian in origin. Matthew I haven't given this much thought really. But I think you're right about it may be keeping some folks apart. That really is bad, you know? I recall many years back reading in a newspaper or some magazine about a really young man in his 20s or so who had this crush on an 80yo woman. No kidding! I guess she felt the same as they kept company a lot & enjoyed one another immensely. So one day he moved in with her & that got the neighbors buzzing. So eventually after several years of their relationship a journalist interviewed them as curious people wanted to know what was keeping them together since it obviously wasn't the woman's money as she didn't really have much. Only her social security. Their photos were revealing too. She was a very spry looking thin, small woman with a twinkle in her eye. He looked as if he could have gotten any young chick in town he wanted. So what was he doing with her? He admitted he didn't know either. Just an honest-to-goodness love for her some odd reason. And vice versa. As if they were drawn together from past lives or something. It kind of reminded me of the movie I saw years later: "Somewhere in Time". They apparently saw in one another what no one else on earth could see or fathom. I guess love has no time or space boundaries when it comes right down to it. I'll have to think on the social stigma about older women tho. That's something I haven't a clue about myself. Maybe someone else here has an answer? Posted by: Lanakila Feb 27 2004, 08:24 AM QUOTE (ericf @ Feb 27 2004, 12:59 AM) Allow me to be honest. I really have nothing against older women but my brain desires younger women. I recognize this as a genetic need to reproduce. As such I am able to say to myself... I find 20-30 year old women most attractive because they could have children with me. Now, does this mean I would have any problems having a sexual relationship with a much older woman? Not at all! I still find older women attractive! But my biological priorities would hinder the intimacy of that relationship because of my desire to father offspring. If the relationship was built on the understanding that I would, at a later time, seek out a younger woman to settle down with I would be comfortable with it. If it was built on the misunderstanding that I would never desire an intimate relationship with a woman that could have my children, I would feel ethically wrong with that. This is as best as I can break down my mental understanding at this time. But I am pretty sure this is what is going on in there. I personally think this is a pretty accurate assessment Eric. I have a suspicion that the reason women in there late 30's and 40s have such a strong libido is its evolutions way of saying this is your last shot at reproducing. It has been suggested that men in their late 30's and 40's and even older start searching out very attractive younger women for this evolutionary drive as well. Its like they have already shared their seed with the mother of their children and she is getting close to not being able to have any more children, they are driven to go and find some gorgeous woman (usually blonde btw) to go and make new offspring with. This phenoma has been studied and researched in many books, one of which I read some of, and will someday finish, and I have while trying to remember the name I went upstairs and found 3 books. Why Sex Matters: A Darwinian Look at Human Behavior by: Bobbi S. Low Sexual Selections: What we can and Can't Learn about Sex from Animals by Marlene Zuk Promiscuity: An evolutionary History of Sperm Competition by Tim Birkhead The first book I read some of btw. Posted by: Lanakila Feb 27 2004, 08:29 AM QUOTE (Starflier @ Feb 27 2004, 02:23 AM) QUOTE (Matthew @ Feb 26 2004, 09:40 PM) Seriously, I don't think I am too young. Even for Starflier! I believe strongly that after 18 anything goes romantically or sexually. I fully support a 18 year old guy and a 40 year old woman if they are in love with each other or a 20 year old girl and a 37 year old man together. Why this social stigma over age? Matthew I think there's more of a social stigma against younger men & older women than there is about younger women with older men. My older sister & her 5 years older husband live in a Sun City golf/tennis active retirement community. There's plenty of men living there older than her husband who're either living with or married to way younger women. Some of the 70yo men have 30yo wives. Of course the men have money which may be part of the attraction there but not all of it I don't think. A 30yo woman wouldn't want some over-the-hill codger who couldn't perform or keep up with her I don't think. Most of those men are very athletic & active into their elder years as my sister's golfer husband still is. There's relatively few elder women there tho with way younger men. Maybe a few years younger but not 20-30+ years younger. So I see the difference there all the time. I often wonder what the big deal about that is. It's almost like a stigmatism against older women. I really hate that. Except that hollywood types seem to ignore this stigma all the time. Demi Moore and Ashton Kutchner (25 years younger I believe) comes to mind. Posted by: michelle Feb 27 2004, 07:42 PM Matthew, I didnt mean to start a stigma with women, sex, and age. Lets get really honest, a 37 yr old happily attached woman is going to find any excuse to keep the 20 year old persistant man away. Do we understand each other now? Anyway, I probably could get with a 20 year old for sex but for a relationship? CMON! What would we possibly have to talk about? I was married 12 years & have 2 kids, I cant relate to a 20 year old as a boyfreind. Not only that, Im past wanting to reproduce. My boyfreind is 31, says he cant have kids. I know a guy who is 51, that for ME, is more attractive than the 20 year old, thats just the way it is. Of course not all men in their 20's are young and dumb. Not only that, as an older experienced woman I need a man with a slow hand so to speak, not one of those 3 minute guys! Just being honest, also please note that I am not exactly completely sober at this time Posted by: michelle Feb 27 2004, 07:45 PM Do I need therapy? Posted by: .:WebMaster:. Feb 27 2004, 08:01 PM No you don't. I wouldn't want a twenty year old woman either. Sex? Maybe, but don't make me have to stay around and talk. I need someone my own age. Posted by: michelle Feb 27 2004, 09:38 PM I hear ya. Posted by: Matthew Feb 27 2004, 09:43 PM QUOTE I didnt mean to start a stigma with women, sex, and age. Lets get really honest, a 37 yr old happily attached woman is going to find any excuse to keep the 20 year old persistant man away. Do we understand each other now? Anyway, I probably could get with a 20 year old for sex but for a relationship? CMON! What would we possibly have to talk about? I was married 12 years & have 2 kids, I cant relate to a 20 year old as a boyfreind. Not only that, Im past wanting to reproduce. My boyfreind is 31, says he cant have kids. I know a guy who is 51, that for ME, is more attractive than the 20 year old, thats just the way it is. Of course not all men in their 20's are young and dumb. Not only that, as an older experienced woman I need a man with a slow hand so to speak, not one of those 3 minute guys! Just being honest, also please note that I am not exactly completely sober at this time Michelle, I was being purely hypothetical. I am not opposed, in principle, to hooking up with an older woman. I imagine that some kind of relationship could flourish beyond that of sex. But I am generally attracted to girls my age or perhaps a few years younger and I see no need to go for older women. If I met an older woman who I was attracted to, I wouldn't be opposed to a relationship. Sometimes I just get a little flirty in my posts, but it's not really serious and I don't actively pursue older women for romance. Matthew Posted by: Starflier Feb 28 2004, 05:09 AM QUOTE (Starflier @ Feb 27 2004, 01:00 AM) QUOTE (Matthew @ Feb 26 2004, 11:55 PM) QUOTE I think there's more of a social stigma against younger men & older women than there is about younger women with older men. What is the origin of this stigma? This stigma can cause some heartbreak because there are probably folks who can't be together as a couple as the result of shame stemming from this kind of stigma. I hope this stigma is not Christian or even Victorian in origin. Matthew I haven't given this much thought really. But I think you're right about it may be keeping some folks apart. That really is bad, you know? I'll have to think on the social stigma about older women tho. That's something I haven't a clue about myself. Maybe someone else here has an answer? The older woman/younger man situation seems to have been covered pretty much I see, on a biological urges basis. But keeping this in the Christian/Victorian related context that Matthew mentioned, about the stigma that's more attached to older women/younger men than with older men/younger women I think ot goes like this: The religions (church/state systems) pretty much control our mindset & inner imagery that outplays onto our reality screen. At least I found it was so for me during my xtian deconversion. In Islam there's the idea of the young militant suicide prone brainwashed male questing after his naked, readily available multi-prepetual-virgins, his ultimate reward. Following his natural biological urges, he'd put his entire being, mind, spirit, soul & body into satisfying himself, even unto death in an afterlife. Especially given the unavailable burka clad females of all ages in his culture. His frustration & desire must be unimaginably enormous. On the other hand the females of all ages desire males of all ages for sexual relationships, mostly marriage. For their ideal is that of the patriarchal male from their god Allah on down in that patrarchy. So that's their biological goal, even in older women who need the provision, protection & power all males hold in that culture where the females have none. Xtianity is no less a patriarchy. The female role model of the virgin mother & wife, Mary, is the most desirable & perfect of women. Unless married, all other young women are considered either damnable whores or virginal potential wives/mothers only. In her elder years, the female has no value & so is not only considered undesirable but even evil in that relgiion. The Virgin Mary never ages, she's perpetually young & virginal like the Islamic female ideal. Also xtianity & Judasm too is rife with elder women rape, abuse & mass extinction thru the witch hunts/burnings masscres. And the stigma of the witchered old hag or Lillith the snakey whore, swamp queen of beasts & scritch owl. In Revelations the Whore of Babylon is infamous. Her only male evil co-equal, so to speak, is the antichrist which could be either female or male. Or Satan/Lucifer. But there's no highly valued or desirable wise old woman comparable to the father god figure or male patriarchs in that religionism either. Jesus of course was even desired by whores such as Mary Magdelene & "nice" women alike (Mary, Martha) for a frequent companion/teacher/protector/savior. So these two religions tell the gender ages & desires story very starkly. From what I've heard from Hindu & Tibetan Buddhist women, it's the same. The older woman who can no longer produce babies or isn't a virgin any more is worth next to nothing. They used to, until fairly recently, burn alive the wives of deceased cremated Hindu men. So there's no desire for her except by her husband if she's married. But even then older men hanker after younger, prettier, nubile more virginal women as I cited in the Sun City social life. While older women might desire younger men their chances of being loved or desired by one are exceedingly slimmer or almost nonexistent. Also since women, on average, outlive men the older women outnumber the men who then have their pick of available women. So the men become the women's prizes or goal with naturally the more attractive, younger looking females winning for the most part. Also older men have traditionally, because of the patriarchal religions, been thought of as "distinguished", handsome, wise or benevolent. While for older women the same doesn't apply. Older people in general aren't much valued in our culture that reveres the young, gorgeous, magazine cover nubile, sexy people. For women her appearance & looks are far more paramount. Elder women aren't considered beautiful in an aesthetic sense. While older men are often considered handsome. Btw, I've got a date later today with a tall, handsome man a few years older than me. The first date I've had since my husband died in '03. Posted by: Lanakila Feb 28 2004, 07:13 AM QUOTE Btw, I've got a date later today with a tall, handsome man a few years older than me. The first date I've had since my husband died in '03. Good for you. I hope you have a wonderful time. Posted by: michelle Feb 28 2004, 06:50 PM Starflier, That was a good thread, thanks for the info. That chick Anne Schaeff in her book When Society Becomes An Addict, said that they found out that some of the best poetry in the world written to women were poems written to dead virgins, women who were virgins and dead. What the fucks up with that? Im sure the poems were written by only Christian men. Theyre warped you know. Have a good time out there! Posted by: Starflier Feb 28 2004, 07:01 PM QUOTE (Lanakila @ Feb 28 2004, 07:13 AM) QUOTE Btw, I've got a date later today with a tall, handsome man a few years older than me. The first date I've had since my husband died in '03. Good for you. I hope you have a wonderful time. TY, Lanakila, I did have a marvelous time. We talked for 3 hours. He wants to take me out for dinner soon. Life is good!! He's also drop dead gorgeous! I felt like a school girl, all nervous & jittery on my first date. Oh my..... Posted by: Starflier Feb 28 2004, 07:06 PM QUOTE (michelle @ Feb 28 2004, 06:50 PM) Starflier, That was a good thread, thanks for the info. That chick Anne Schaeff in her book When Society Becomes An Addict, said that they found out that some of the best poetry in the world written to women were poems written to dead virgins, women who were virgins and dead. What the fucks up with that? Im sure the poems were written by only Christian men. Theyre warped you know. Have a good time out there! Poems to dead virgins? Now that's a new one I haven't heard before. You're probablly right tho...by xtian men. Very likely priests too. Who else? I wonder if the virgins were nuns. Excavators found lots of dead babies bodies in the walls of some convents. I guess the nuns & priests had lots to keep themselves busy the rest of the world never knew about. Posted by: Lanakila Feb 29 2004, 08:07 AM QUOTE (bob @ Feb 26 2004, 11:07 AM) QUOTE (michelle @ Feb 23 2004, 10:44 AM) QUESTION: I have often heard that men reach sexual peak at 18 while women reach it at 35. Is it true? Michelle, as a man, I reached my sexual peak during my life between 14 and 44...the whole time I was at my peak. Now, at 46...I think...I have really noticed a swift decline in my libido. Very disappointing for the wife, since she, at 45...I think...has experienced a surge in hers. Porn doesn't even do it for me anymore. I don't even bother looking at it anymore. Frustrating, yet now I do manage to get more things done during the day. Bob have you been to a urologist lately? What you are describing is not only common for men your age, but 30-40% of men in their 40's have problems of a similar nature. It is caused by Benign Protrate Hypotrophy. The prostrate is like a donut around the urethra, and when it gets enlarged which it will eventually for all men, many smptoms occur. One of which is decreased libido, and another is having to get up in the middle of the night to urinate, or having trouble holding your urine. There are prescription drugs for this, but there is an over the counter medication called The Prostrate Formula that will work if you take it correctly, and this is your problem. I think you will be a |