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| Posted by: sexkitten Oct 15 2004, 02:55 PM |
| Printable Version of Topic Click here to view this topic in its original format ExChristian.Net Open Forums > Rants & Replies > Serious Problem Posted by: Doug2 Jun 7 2004, 09:54 PM I'm wearing my sad face right now folks. One of the primary purposes of this forum is to encourage and support ex-christians. Ex-christians come here and pour out their hearts and reveal some deep issues. We make friendships here, and it becomes a second home. We discuss everything, and we value each other's advice. Unfortunately though, emotions can become overwhelming, and people get hurt. Such a thing is very difficult to avoid, for an innumerable amount of reasons, but I would so much like a place where that kind of thing can be avoided as much as possible. In order to keep things from turning ugly, I would like all the regular members of the forum to join me in a pact. I would like us all to try our best not to belittle other members of the forum. I'm not talking about trolls who are here to annoy. I am talking about people who have taken the time to write out a thoughtful response. It can be very hurtful for someone to slam your response in front of everyone, when you were just expressing your opinion and trying to help. I'm not saying we can't disagree and debate, I'm saying we use maturity and respect in our replies. "I respect your opinion, but I disagree, and here is why" instead of "You brain dead idiot, that is completely wrong" Also I would like us all to try to keep from being over angry with people's responses. Sometimes it is hard to convey a point through text, or they are just having a bad day, etc. Let's resist the urge to shoot of a war post back in their direction and let comments slide once in a while that are of no importance. Let's learn to apologize and accept apologies from people who mean it. We are all human. Let's be aware of the other circumstances that others may be in, and not push any buttons that need not be pressed. Let me be very clear about one thing, this is not in response to any one person. I don't want anyone to feel bad from this, but just to think of the future, and others on this board. I have been seeing this happen a lot, for a long time, and it finally has hit critical mass for me. I have seen too many people hurt. Any thoughts on this? Who will join me? Posted by: Luck Mermaid Jun 7 2004, 10:08 PM You brain dead idiot, that is completely wrong. Posted by: Luck Mermaid Jun 7 2004, 10:10 PM I think SF is a fundy, just not a Christian fundy. I can't help but poke holes in his theory on gay 'choice', and do it in fine style and call him assinine when it's clear he's being so. However, I suppose I could try to refrain from arguing with him outright, and others, and try and not use insults or witty quips ('im just being honest') that are meant to hurt. Whether they're SF or someone else. Posted by: Doug2 Jun 7 2004, 10:14 PM Poking holes in someone's theory is fine, but let's, as you say, avoid using comments meant to hurt. Let's attack the theory, not the person. When you can gently guide someone and show them how they are wrong, then you have changed them and made an ally. When you anger someone you have just made a more determined enemy. Posted by: nightbreeze Jun 7 2004, 10:15 PM Yes, I will join with you, brother Doug! Posted by: Doug2 Jun 7 2004, 10:16 PM QUOTE (nightbreeze @ Jun 7 2004, 11:15 PM) Yes, I will join with you, brother Doug! Thanks Nightbreeze! Posted by: SpaceFalcon2001 Jun 7 2004, 10:22 PM QUOTE (Luck Mermaid @ Jun 8 2004, 02:10 AM) I think SF is a fundy, just not a Christian fundy. I can't help but poke holes in his theory on gay 'choice', and do it in fine style and call him assinine when it's clear he's being so. Shooting off insults you barely know how to use doesn't get you anywhere. Last time I checked, posting on how you believe in a magical gay gene doesn't qualify as "poking holes". The argument had little to do with religion, which people got distracted from. You're belief in a gay gene doesn't prove it anymore than Jesus being the "messiah". Get some evidence (as I've said all along) and then you will get some creedence. When you apply misnomers like fundy to all religions, you mearly create your own version of persecution, perpetrating a hatred of any culture by misdirecting a distrust of the old one. Posted by: sexkitten Jun 7 2004, 11:08 PM I'll join Doug and nighbreeze. Posted by: Lokmer Jun 7 2004, 11:11 PM I'm in bastards... -Lokmer Posted by: BlueGiant Jun 7 2004, 11:17 PM I'm not much of a joiner myself. It was a lot for me to join here, and while I do make a point of honoring commitments (these days it seems almost to be a throwback thing), I do not make them lightly, nor often, especially a pact or somesuch. As it stands I intend to keep my "don't be a jerk" policy, along with my policy of calling "bullshit" when I see it. I know I jest a lot in my posts, and I a sorry if I offend others. I expect to be called out when I am out of line, as well. As for a pact, I would have to see it writen first before I would even consider signing off. I'll honor the spirit of it, though I don't feel that I can in good conscience sign on. I don't feel I need it to "play nice." Posted by: chrome Jun 7 2004, 11:29 PM QUOTE (Doug2 @ Jun 7 2004, 10:54 PM) I'm not saying we can't disagree and debate, I'm saying we use maturity and respect in our replies. "I respect your opinion, but I disagree, and here is why" I can easily get on board with that. Posted by: Casey Jun 7 2004, 11:33 PM I'll go along with it Doug. I'm not much of a hand at starting quarrels; I've lived through too many when I was growing up, and I'd rather not see any more than I have to. If the Fundy rattlesnakes want to bite each other, that's fine by me, but why should we give 'em the opportunity to say the same of us? Casey Posted by: phoenix Jun 7 2004, 11:45 PM i'm with you, doug Posted by: MrSpooky Jun 7 2004, 11:53 PM But of course. A debate is far too often won not by intellect, but by volume of voice and wit of insult. Quite barbaric in a civil society, and beneath the humanist ideal. Posted by: I Broke Free Jun 8 2004, 12:07 AM QUOTE (chrome @ Jun 8 2004, 03:29 AM) QUOTE (Doug2 @ Jun 7 2004, 10:54 PM) I'm not saying we can't disagree and debate, I'm saying we use maturity and respect in our replies. "I respect your opinion, but I disagree, and here is why" I can easily get on board with that. me too... Posted by: Redshift Jun 8 2004, 12:25 AM Count me in. Posted by: Kaiser Soze Jun 8 2004, 01:32 AM I heartily concur. Posted by: Tocis Jun 8 2004, 05:19 AM I swear by Thor that I'll do my very best. Posted by: biggles7268 Jun 8 2004, 05:27 AM sure thing, you might have to slap me around if i forget though. i've got a bad memory I hereby nominate this topic for stickiness so all future Exchristian members can see it also. Posted by: Reach Jun 8 2004, 05:43 AM QUOTE (nightbreeze @ Jun 8 2004, 01:15 AM) Yes, I will join with you, brother Doug! Me too. I came here with the purpose of loving people. I was not hurting when I arrived so I didn't require much in return. I hoped to encourage people and mayhaps, help one or two along the road to recovery from their pain. People are worth loving and they are worth investing in. I believe every single individual person is a gift to the world. ...and in the magic of that moment they realized how very colorless their lives would be without each other. -Charles Dickens Posted by: woodsmoke Jun 8 2004, 11:32 AM Well, considering I outgrew gooberhood a long time ago, I don't think I have anything to worry about..... Sorry Biggles, couldn't resist. I promise to try if y'all promise to smack me upside the head when I'm not tryin' hard enough. --OW! I said when! When! Posted by: SaviorForSale Jun 8 2004, 11:54 AM (Doug) QUOTE Any thoughts on this? Who will join me? I am definately for that. I am one of the people that recently shot my mouth off and I feel bad for it, now. lesson learned... *places foot in mouth* Posted by: Doug2 Jun 8 2004, 12:00 PM Thanks everyone. I'm hoping that if some of the more prolific senior members set a tone of respect on the board, then other members that join will see how things are handled here, and follow suit. Thanks again to all. Posted by: notblindedbytheblight Jun 8 2004, 12:10 PM Anger can deter us from the topic itself. It is easy to resort to when I feel I have been attacked. This has not happened here to me and I hope that I can react in a civil manner. After all, we must show the christians and others that their idea of us is wrong. We are not the evil people they think we are. I'm in!! Posted by: woodsmoke Jun 8 2004, 12:16 PM If you ever find a way to make that foot taste better, Savior, let me know. I'm amazed I have to eat anymore, what with all the time I spend with my foot stuffed in my mouth. Posted by: sexkitten Jun 8 2004, 12:24 PM QUOTE (woodsmoke @ Jun 8 2004, 12:16 PM) If you ever find a way to make that foot taste better, Savior, let me know. I'm amazed I have to eat anymore, what with all the time I spend with my foot stuffed in my mouth. Garlic salt and a bit of lemon juice makes almost everything taste better. Posted by: SaviorForSale Jun 8 2004, 12:34 PM QUOTE (woodsmoke @ Jun 8 2004, 12:16 PM) If you ever find a way to make that foot taste better, Savior, let me know. I'm amazed I have to eat anymore, what with all the time I spend with my foot stuffed in my mouth. Posted by: Vixentrox Jun 8 2004, 02:45 PM I save my name calling for Xtian idiots pretty much. No problem here. Posted by: Killswitch Jun 8 2004, 02:48 PM I would gladly stand by on that pact; Help, not hinder! Posted by: mah_jong13 Jun 9 2004, 07:53 AM I promise I will love, honor and obey... Well, anyway, I won't slam the regulars, I don't believe I ever have... But the fundy nutjobs that show up off the 'christian' part of the site may get it from me. (I mean the annoying spammers & people who insist on trying to convert. I feel especially protective of new people just leaving their religion.) Love- MJ Posted by: davety227 Jun 9 2004, 09:39 AM I have no problem being courteous. Count me in. Posted by: blessed75 Jun 9 2004, 12:32 PM QUOTE (Doug2 @ Jun 7 2004, 10:54 PM) I'm wearing my sad face right now folks. One of the primary purposes of this forum is to encourage and support ex-christians. Ex-christians come here and pour out their hearts and reveal some deep issues. We make friendships here, and it becomes a second home. We discuss everything, and we value each other's advice. Unfortunately though, emotions can become overwhelming, and people get hurt. Such a thing is very difficult to avoid, for an innumerable amount of reasons, but I would so much like a place where that kind of thing can be avoided as much as possible. In order to keep things from turning ugly, I would like all the regular members of the forum to join me in a pact. I would like us all to try our best not to belittle other members of the forum. I'm not talking about trolls who are here to annoy. I am talking about people who have taken the time to write out a thoughtful response. It can be very hurtful for someone to slam your response in front of everyone, when you were just expressing your opinion and trying to help. I'm not saying we can't disagree and debate, I'm saying we use maturity and respect in our replies. "I respect your opinion, but I disagree, and here is why" instead of "You brain dead idiot, that is completely wrong" Also I would like us all to try to keep from being over angry with people's responses. Sometimes it is hard to convey a point through text, or they are just having a bad day, etc. Let's resist the urge to shoot of a war post back in their direction and let comments slide once in a while that are of no importance. Let's learn to apologize and accept apologies from people who mean it. We are all human. Let's be aware of the other circumstances that others may be in, and not push any buttons that need not be pressed. Let me be very clear about one thing, this is not in response to any one person. I don't want anyone to feel bad from this, but just to think of the future, and others on this board. I have been seeing this happen a lot, for a long time, and it finally has hit critical mass for me. I have seen too many people hurt. Any thoughts on this? Who will join me? That's a beautiful post - I really wish that people were like that in real life as well. Thank you for posting this! Posted by: Baby Eater Jun 9 2004, 07:38 PM I join you doug. Still, I refuse to be modest, humble and unsarcastic. Posted by: Reach Jun 9 2004, 07:43 PM QUOTE (Baby Eater @ Jun 9 2004, 10:38 PM) I join you doug. Still, I refuse to be modest, humble and unsarcastic. Thank you, BE. Don't you dare change those good qualities of yours. Posted by: TruthWarrior Jun 9 2004, 08:16 PM I love pacts! Is this like the Warsaw Pact? Do we get to wear badges and silly hats? Posted by: BlueGiant Jun 9 2004, 11:03 PM In case my previous post confused this, I would like to state that I agree with the spirit of the pact. I do try and abide by a "be a good person and don't be an asshole" policy. Just makes things easier for all concerned. Also, I consider most of the regulars here friends, and I won't attack my own. Others have hurt us enough, why should we ourselves add more scars to ourselves? Posted by: Kaiser Soze Jun 10 2004, 01:38 AM All that said, if someone starts preaching hellfire and damnation, or making hideous generalising comments on homosoexuality or something to that effect, I may have to tell them where to get off..... Posted by: fortunehooks Jun 10 2004, 07:42 PM doug2,i am in on the pact concept. i think the pact wouldn't be much unless fortunehooks signs on also. no disrespect to anyone,but i felt like boosting my own ego for a change. Posted by: Loren Jun 11 2004, 07:09 PM QUOTE (Doug2 @ Jun 7 2004, 09:54 PM) Let me be very clear about one thing, this is not in response to any one person. I don't want anyone to feel bad from this, but just to think of the future, and others on this board. I have been seeing this happen a lot, for a long time, and it finally has hit critical mass for me. I have seen too many people hurt. Any thoughts on this? Who will join me? Doug, I'm in complete agreement with everything you've said. I'm in. Posted by: Joshua Jun 11 2004, 07:41 PM QUOTE (Doug2 @ Jun 7 2004, 09:54 PM) I'm wearing my sad face right now folks. One of the primary purposes of this forum is to encourage and support ex-christians. Ex-christians come here and pour out their hearts and reveal some deep issues. We make friendships here, and it becomes a second home. We discuss everything, and we value each other's advice. Unfortunately though, emotions can become overwhelming, and people get hurt. Such a thing is very difficult to avoid, for an innumerable amount of reasons, but I would so much like a place where that kind of thing can be avoided as much as possible. In order to keep things from turning ugly, I would like all the regular members of the forum to join me in a pact. I would like us all to try our best not to belittle other members of the forum. I'm not talking about trolls who are here to annoy. I am talking about people who have taken the time to write out a thoughtful response. It can be very hurtful for someone to slam your response in front of everyone, when you were just expressing your opinion and trying to help. I'm not saying we can't disagree and debate, I'm saying we use maturity and respect in our replies. "I respect your opinion, but I disagree, and here is why" instead of "You brain dead idiot, that is completely wrong" Also I would like us all to try to keep from being over angry with people's responses. Sometimes it is hard to convey a point through text, or they are just having a bad day, etc. Let's resist the urge to shoot of a war post back in their direction and let comments slide once in a while that are of no importance. Let's learn to apologize and accept apologies from people who mean it. We are all human. Let's be aware of the other circumstances that others may be in, and not push any buttons that need not be pressed. Let me be very clear about one thing, this is not in response to any one person. I don't want anyone to feel bad from this, but just to think of the future, and others on this board. I have been seeing this happen a lot, for a long time, and it finally has hit critical mass for me. I have seen too many people hurt. Any thoughts on this? Who will join me? I just now saw this. I always try to behave and debate civilly, but I'm sure I fall short of the mark sometimes. Yes, I agree with you, Doug, and I will join you. Posted by: YoungInFaithlessness Jun 11 2004, 08:06 PM Count me in, although I don't think I have ever done such things, I promise to be good! Posted by: mandylibra1979 Jun 11 2004, 08:11 PM I will attempt to behave Doug. I don't know how long it will last though. Posted by: Stargazer Jun 11 2004, 09:05 PM I'm in. Posted by: PseudoGod Jun 15 2004, 09:56 AM QUOTE (BlueGiant @ Jun 7 2004, 11:17 PM) I'm not much of a joiner myself. It was a lot for me to join here, and while I do make a point of honoring commitments (these days it seems almost to be a throwback thing), I do not make them lightly, nor often, especially a pact or somesuch. As it stands I intend to keep my "don't be a jerk" policy, along with my policy of calling "bullshit" when I see it. I know I jest a lot in my posts, and I a sorry if I offend others. I expect to be called out when I am out of line, as well. As for a pact, I would have to see it writen first before I would even consider signing off. I'll honor the spirit of it, though I don't feel that I can in good conscience sign on. I don't feel I need it to "play nice." I think this is my sentiments also. I have read this thread at least 3 times and didn't even plan on responding, not because I don't believe in being civil, but I do think members have a right to defend themselves as they see fit, even against other members. (disclaimer: if someone is threatening another person, that is a different matter entirely, and if it ever got to that I would think banning the person would be in line) I guess the way I see this is that if a member is nasty (where it is not justified), other members are going to sense that, eventually less people will be inclined to interact with that person, and evolution will take it's course and that person will no longer visit the site. I guess the reason I feel this way is lately (and maybe it is just my imagination) it seems there are more members on this site who are not even ex-christians, they just don't like christians or christianity and are here to get that out of their system. While this is all fine and good, I don't think (and someone can correct me if I am wrong) that this site exists for those people, I think it is here for the people who need support from other ex-christians. I personally don't dislike Christians, and I can't even say I "hate" Christianity (in the sense that if someone "picks and chooses" the good stuff and lives that way, and it makes them a better person I see that as a good thing, hey live and let live). Anyway, what I have noticed lately is members waving their finger at other members (in a nice way, but it is still scolding, nonetheless) in a public forum as opposed to sending them a PM. If a member blows up because another member does this, hey I don't blame them. We are all adults here, and if someone presumes to correct someone where it may not be their place, they might be in for a spanking. Anyway maybe I am just venting, but this is my opinion. I always try to be civil, but I don't think I need to sign something to do that. If I don't like someone I just ignore them, it is pretty simple. However I reserve the right to defend myself as I see fit, should a member should say something to me that really ticks me off. Especially members who are not, nor ever have been, ex-Christians. My 2 cents. Posted by: Skankboy Jun 15 2004, 10:19 AM QUOTE If I don't like someone I just ignore them, it is pretty simple. However I reserve the right to defend myself as I see fit, should a member should say something to me that really ticks me off. Well said. Responding to the hit-and-run's only gives them strength. Ad Hominems don't get anyone anywhere, no matter what the context (no matter how good it feels when you're doing it!). I'm in... Posted by: sexkitten Jun 15 2004, 10:45 AM QUOTE I guess the way I see this is that if a member is nasty (where it is not justified), other members are going to sense that, eventually less people will be inclined to interact with that person, and evolution will take it's course and that person will no longer visit the site. In my experience on bulletin boards, this works in theory but not in practice. It is very, very difficult to stop everyone from responding to a destructive poster, and it only takes one person reacting to such a poster to derail an otherwise civil thread. Posted by: Redshift Jun 15 2004, 11:02 AM QUOTE (PseudoGod @ Jun 15 2004, 07:56 PM) it seems there are more members on this site who are not even ex-christians, they just don't like christians or christianity and are here to get that out of their system. This is true, particularly when these individuals lash out those who dare criticize whatever belief system they do adhere to. Anyone remember that "remote viewing" guy who, after bashing Christians, proceeded to attack everyone else for not believing, like he did, in some wise alien being, called Lucifer? Posted by: PseudoGod Jun 15 2004, 11:22 AM Sexkitten you might be right, maybe this is just my wishful thinking. I guess at least here moderators can always fall back on posting guidelines and take whatever action if someone is being really out of line. I actually think for the most part everyone (speaking only of the non-apologists) seems pretty civil and friendly, but from time to time I do see a non-apologist member or two taking a "holier-than-thou" position with other members. I don't think anyone should be doing that even if they are "nice", (IMO) but if they do, they should be prepared for a reaction, and possibly not a nice one. I think many of us ex'ers had enough "holier-than-thou" as Christians to last us a lifetime.... Posted by: PseudoGod Jun 15 2004, 11:24 AM QUOTE (Redshift @ Jun 15 2004, 11:02 AM) This is true, particularly when these individuals lash out those who dare criticize whatever belief system they do adhere to. Exactly! Posted by: Redshift Jun 15 2004, 11:36 AM I tend to lash out at people who say things that I deem stupid, uninformed or rude. The thing is that I have been guilty of all of the above myself. On those occasions, I have found that the nice people, probably biting their tongues as they typed, have been far more effective in making me recognize my own folly than those who responded in kind. Posted by: PseudoGod Jun 15 2004, 11:44 AM Redshift I think that was what prompted me to type what I typed, is that I find I have been holding my tongue more recently than when I first joined. Although it has been tough at times I still stick to my "ignore" policy. But, that isn't to say one day I will have a really really bad day at work and come on this site and someone will say something that causes me to "state my opinion" Posted by: Doug2 Jun 18 2004, 01:27 AM Should this be pinned or is it old school now? Posted by: Redshift Jun 18 2004, 06:27 AM If you pin it, mbe change the title to something more descriptive? Posted by: Doug2 Jun 18 2004, 11:20 PM good idea Posted by: CodeWarren Jun 19 2004, 12:23 AM Heh, I'm late, but I'm in . Not that it really needed stating for me. Posted by: spidermonkey Jun 19 2004, 05:56 AM QUOTE (Doug2 @ Jun 8 2004, 01:54 AM) I'm wearing my sad face right now folks. One of the primary purposes of this forum is to encourage and support ex-christians. Ex-christians come here and pour out their hearts and reveal some deep issues. We make friendships here, and it becomes a second home. We discuss everything, and we value each other's advice. Unfortunately though, emotions can become overwhelming, and people get hurt. Such a thing is very difficult to avoid, for an innumerable amount of reasons, but I would so much like a place where that kind of thing can be avoided as much as possible. In order to keep things from turning ugly, I would like all the regular members of the forum to join me in a pact. I would like us all to try our best not to belittle other members of the forum. I'm not talking about trolls who are here to annoy. I am talking about people who have taken the time to write out a thoughtful response. It can be very hurtful for someone to slam your response in front of everyone, when you were just expressing your opinion and trying to help. I'm not saying we can't disagree and debate, I'm saying we use maturity and respect in our replies. "I respect your opinion, but I disagree, and here is why" instead of "You brain dead idiot, that is completely wrong" Also I would like us all to try to keep from being over angry with people's responses. Sometimes it is hard to convey a point through text, or they are just having a bad day, etc. Let's resist the urge to shoot of a war post back in their direction and let comments slide once in a while that are of no importance. Let's learn to apologize and accept apologies from people who mean it. We are all human. Let's be aware of the other circumstances that others may be in, and not push any buttons that need not be pressed. Let me be very clear about one thing, this is not in response to any one person. I don't want anyone to feel bad from this, but just to think of the future, and others on this board. I have been seeing this happen a lot, for a long time, and it finally has hit critical mass for me. I have seen too many people hurt. Any thoughts on this? Who will join me? I totally agree. I save my bitching on this board for the fundie assholes ~ the rest goes in my deadjournal. One thing I would like to see STOP on this board is tossing around the word "fundy" to describe other non-xtians who don't agree with them. I've seen that in a few different places by a few different people, and it pisses me off every time. I'm also sick to death of xtians (yes, even some of the seemingly "cool" non fundy posters) who come here and get pissed when non-xtians disagree with them about matters of religion. Hello, this is an EX-CHRISTIAN site. You may be friendly, you may have a great sense of humor, you may be open-minded and anti-fundy, but you're still xtian. Your toes will be stepped on from time to time, both intentionally and unintentionally. Suck it up and deal with it! No one is forcing you to post here. Yes, I REALIZE this is a bit harsh, but dammit, I've been waiting for bob knows how long to say it. Posted by: formerfundie Jun 20 2004, 05:38 PM You see, it was that word PACT - triggers buttons/associations in my head - like suicide pact, and pact with the devil - so of course, it took me a long time to get here considering when this topic was first started - you see, some of us still got big issues - bleh.... I don't think personally I've ever bashed any of the regs, and for the most part I feel that the regs here are sensitive and intuitive enough to distinguish between who's who and who you can say what things to and in what manner and get by with it. We all pretty much start out being nice to the newbies, unless, of course, THEY start out ridin' in on the asshole train - that's when the tiger in the tank starts to rev. I've noticed that some regs have more patience and tolerance/understanding for certain things than others - it's just how they are. I'm more tolerant and accepting than most, so something like this is not a problem for me - I'm generally a nice person, and try to be kind, although I don't go into the debate forum much - I've seen perhaps some unintentional assaults/slams in the other areas too that I would think were unecessary. Excuse, once more, the verbosity. Can't we all just get along and shake it like a polaroid picture? Is your face doin' the happy dance yet Doug? Posted by: AzAtheist Jun 20 2004, 09:57 PM QUOTE (Doug2 @ Jun 7 2004, 10:54 PM) I'm wearing my sad face right now folks. One of the primary purposes of this forum is to encourage and support ex-christians. Fine, no "one" person. But which thread do you refer to? Please don't tell me there is no specific thread, I'm not 'a' idiot dat don't now bedder. Please show me which thread prompted this post, I'll read the thread and respond appropriately. Powered by Invision Power Board (http://www.invisionboard.com) © Invision Power Services (http://www.invisionpower.com) |