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| Posted by: sexkitten Oct 12 2004, 12:51 PM |
| Printable Version of Topic Click here to view this topic in its original format ExChristian.Net Open Forums > Debating with Christians > Sell Me. Posted by: toecutter Dec 18 2003, 11:51 PM As of now, i'm a christian who is totally unconvinced. I've lived nearly 18 years of my life in total faith and blind following. I'm not about to say that i've made up my mind. what I am about to say, though, is that i've never been more unsure. To: the christians. we have to face facts here. there are some things in the bible that just dont make and logical sense. apparant contradictions, factual errors, and actions by god that seem totally outside of the nature of god. Tell me, those who would see these questions and still have faith, tell me what you've seen. To: the ex-christians or whoever else. there are some things in the bible that do make a great deal of sense. yes, i have to admit that it's possible that people made them up that way, that they make sense because we all wanted them to, but regardless, the christianity gives purpose and meaning in a world otherwise devoid. If i came to the end of my search dissatisfied with christianity, where then would i go? would i feast myself upon the gorges of earthly pleasures? would i party until i couldnt stand up strait? what reason would i have not to blow my brains out right at that moment where i saw that nothing mattered? how the hell am I supposed to live a happy life when at that point, all i've got is momentary pleasure? Should i then hoard wealth? should i then live from paycheck to paycheck? Faced with the thought of your own worthlessness, how do you live out the day? using the same logic that you've applied so harshly to christianity, why the hell are you still alive? please please, someone shed some light on this. it's tearing me up. i've even taking to writing some really bad poetry. i'm not even kidding, it's really bad. help. Posted by: Emperor Norton II Dec 19 2003, 12:03 AM Yeah- this seems like the thought many Christians I know have about atheism. Granted, I think it's really sad they need made-up beliefs to propell themselves forward... If ya want something thorough and lengthy, go to a library, and find The System of Nature, by Baron d'Holbach. It's an explanation of morality and purpose from an atheistic point of view- one of the first works of this type. I have done a lot of research on Holbach, and he practised what he preached with zeal- he's my role model. (This book is the earliest I've heard referred to as The Atheists' Bible- if anyone can tell of an earlier book with the same kinda atheistic moral views, give word, yo) To put things short, you need to find joy in yourself and other people. People are, in fact, the most prominent things in our daily lives, so shouldn't you live for the people around you? Ultimately, you need to seek purpose in yourself. For the better portion of us, purpose will be in helping our fellow man. Nothing outside (short of physical drugs, like alcohol, and mental ones such as religion- which are fleeting, coming and going with your use of them, until they break you when you lean too hard on them) of yourself will make you happy. It may sound like hippy propoganda, but it's true. At least it was for me. Posted by: Emperor Norton II Dec 19 2003, 12:04 AM Put some of the poetry up in the Totally Of-Topic section- you've made me curious. Can't be as bad as some of mine. Posted by: Matthew Dec 19 2003, 12:07 AM toecutter, QUOTE please please, someone shed some light on this. it's tearing me up. i've even taking to writing some really bad poetry. i'm not even kidding, it's really bad. Unfortunately a lot of Christians have bought into the well-poisoning that Christianity often foists on their minds. What I mean by this is that Christianity is held to be the only source of meaning and purpose possible in one's life. Unfortunately this just isn't so! The beauty of freethought is that one is free to explore and use their own mind to discern truth with reason. I don't think that abandonment of Christianity would necessarily lead one to a life of purposeless hedonism. Freethought doesn't necessarily entail any kind of non-theism. One can be a freethinker and be a Deist, a Pantheist, or perhaps something else. I am a Deist and find plenty of fulfillment and purpose in it. I could be a Pantheist or even an atheist tomorrow should the sails of reason send me that way. If I could encourage you to do one thing..is use reason rather than faith or dogma to make your decisions. I realize that my suggestion is unrequested and I freely invite you to take or leave my suggestion as you deem fit. You may wish to read some books by secular philosophers or other academics. It may be a good idea to read books, essays, and papers by many different people from all walks of life and see what gives them purpose in their lives. I know of an atheist named Richard Carrier who wrote an article on the Secular Web on what purpose to life he saw as an atheist. I disagree with him..but never-the-less I am open to the possibility that he has some points to be made. All religions and philosophies deserve a good hearing and that's what I am trying to accomplish myself. I have a long way to go..but the journey promises to be an exciting one. I will go wherever I see reason, and reason alone, leading me. Matthew Posted by: toecutter Dec 19 2003, 12:30 AM I have read quite a bit of nonchristian literature. I'm actually a very avid reader. I know that i've read some nonchristian philosophers, (descartes, kant) but i'm also sure that i was reading those with the lens of christian presupposition and bias. Like i said, i'm not sold either way now, but i am certain that i was closed-minded beforehand. and rodan, at your request, you may now view some of my crappy poems. i hope i don't regret it. i just dont know what i'd do if i got flamed on a message board. End of my life, probably. wink wink. Posted by: pitchu Dec 19 2003, 01:06 AM Toecutter, I'd submit that, contrary to what you posted, it isn't thoughts of your own worthlessness you're really concerned about; you may be questioning your faith because of thoughts of your own worth. Posted by: BillJ Dec 19 2003, 01:34 AM No meaning to life without religion, Come on. You can still believe in a God without religion, and the best way to do so is to examine everything yourself and decide why God put you here. Even if you don't believe in God you can be as happy as you would like to be. I think religion is depressing you just repeat the same shit over and over, condemn non-believers who are normal, good caring people to hell. If you really research the bible you will find out that it is nothing but a composite religion, do you know how many alleged sons of God predate the bible that have been resurrected and born of virgins etc. Examples. paganism, greek mythology, sumerian and babylonian religions. To actually think a book that has more errors than a human written book to be the word of God is absolutely absurd. To think of an inconceivable God, and than actually believe you need some ink on paper written by 40 men in 1500 years, to get to God, is fucking mind boggling. The Bible says ridiculous things, God sends Bears to kill kids because they made fun of Elijahs bald head. God is not the author of confusion, yet you can interpret the Bible in 9999 ways, and there are 100 of churches, with conflicting views. It also says the law is written on your heart, but I can tell you this, a person without a heart and there are people with artificial hearts, can think rationally, knows the difference between right and wrong, and certainly knows from instinct, that killing is wrong, and stealing is wrong. A Christian might claim that it is some type of spiritual heart, but than this would be another interpretation further making the verse "God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints." look contradictory, Another contradictory thing about this verse is the mentioning of peace. Exodus 15:3 "The Lord is a man of war." Jeremiah 18:11 "Thus saith the Lord; Behold, I frame evil against you, and devise a device against you." I'm aware of only one verse where god stops someone from killing after he commanded them to do so earlier. Gen 22:2 God tells Abraham to kill his son for a burnt offering. Abraham was going to sacrifice his son because god told him to, but before he could do it god stopped him and told him it was a test, he than untied his son and they were told by god to sacrifice an animal, which is really silly thing to do to a beautiful creature of the wilderness, especially your own creation. Allegedly, wars that happened in one day, wars in the name of God, killed more people than vietnam. That's ridiculous to believe that such a feat is possible. Here are a bunch of evil verses and contradictions. Most are taken out of context, but if you research them yourself, you will realize that all of them are unjust, because not only is he killing them but im sure he is sending them to Hell, and even if they had commited a crime it would be infinite punishment for a finite crime. If you want to know more about the misinterpretations of the word "Sheol" and "Hades", which are translated into the word "Hell", the words actually just mean the Grave, there is no talk about there being eternal torture. It seems to arrive in the NT Jesus starts to talk about the Lake of fire. This scare tactic emerged right around the time Christianity started to lose its power in convincing people into becoming devout followers. Okay, Basically I could go on for 10 hours, describing the problems associated with the bible, go research this site for yourself and decide what you would like to do. Kill Pagans, Mediums, and Psychics He executed the priests of the pagan shrines on their own altars, and he burned human bones on the altars to desecrate them. Finally, he returned to Jerusalem. King Josiah then issued this order to all the people: "You must celebrate the Passover to the LORD your God, as it is written in the Book of the Covenant." There had not been a Passover celebration like that since the time when the judges ruled in Israel, throughout all the years of the kings of Israel and Judah. This Passover was celebrated to the LORD in Jerusalem during the eighteenth year of King Josiah's reign. Josiah also exterminated the mediums and psychics, the household gods, and every other kind of idol worship, both in Jerusalem and throughout the land of Judah. He did this in obedience to all the laws written in the scroll that Hilkiah the priest had found in the LORD's Temple. Never before had there been a king like Josiah, who turned to the LORD with all his heart and soul and strength, obeying all the laws of Moses. And there has never been a king like him since. (2 Kings 23:20-25 NLT) Earthquake Proof Buildings Masonry bonded with wooden beams is not loosened by an earthquake. (Sirach 22:16 NAB) God's Sword Thus the word of the LORD came to me: Son of man, prophesy! say: Thus says the LORD: A sword, a sword has been sharpened, a sword, a sword has been burnished: To work slaughter has it been sharpened, to flash lightning has it been burnished. Why should I now withdraw it? You have spurned the rod and every judgment! I have given it over to the burnisher that he might hold it in his hand, A sword sharpened and burnished to be put in the hand of a slayer. Cry out and wail, son of man, for it is destined for my people; It is for all the princes of Israel, victims of the sword with my people. Therefore, slap your thigh, for the sword has been tested; and why should it not be so? says the Lord GOD, since you have spurned the rod. As for you, son of man, prophesy, brushing one hand against the other: While the sword is doubled and tripled, this sword of slaughter, This great sword of slaughter which threatens all around, That every heart may tremble; for many will be the fallen. At all their gates I have appointed the sword for slaughter, Fashioned to flash lightning, burnished for slaughter. Cleave to the right! destroy! to the left! wherever your edge is turned. Then I, too, shall brush one hand against the other and wreak my fury. I, the LORD, have spoken. (Ezekiel 21:13-22 NAB) Eat Children And the LORD fulfilled the warning he had uttered against us: against our judges, who governed Israel, against our kings and princes, and against the men of Israel and Judah. He brought down upon us evils so great that there has not been done anywhere under heaven what has been done in Jerusalem, as was written in the law of Moses: that one after another of us should eat the flesh of his son or of his daughter. He has made us subject to all the kingdoms round about us, a reproach and a horror among all the nations round about to which the LORD has scattered us. (Baruch 2:1-4 NAB) God Hates the Land of Edom "I have loved you deeply," says the LORD.But you retort, "Really? How have you loved us? "And the LORD replies, "I showed my love for you by loving your ancestor Jacob. Yet Esau was Jacob's brother, and I rejected Esau and devastated his hill country. I turned Esau's inheritance into a desert for jackals." And Esau's descendants in Edom may say, "We have been shattered, but we will rebuild the ruins. "But this is what the LORD Almighty says: "They may try to rebuild, but I will demolish them again! Their country will be known as 'The Land of Wickedness,' and their people will be called 'The People with Whom the LORD Is Forever Angry.' (Malachi 1:2-4 NLT) 185,000 Killed by God The angel of the Lord went forth and struck down one hundred and eighty-five thousand in the Assyrian camp. Early the next morning they were there, all the corpses of the dead. (Isaiah 37:36 NAB) Sons Punished for Their Father's Sins So the LORD said to Solomon: "Since this is what you want, and you have not kept my covenant and my statutes which I enjoined on you, I will deprive you of the kingdom and give it to your servant. I will not do this during your lifetime, however, for the sake of your father David; it is your son whom I will deprive. (1 Kings 11:11-12 NAB) Beat Servants, Lock up Wives But of these things be not ashamed, lest you sin through human respect;…Of constant training of children, or of beating the sides of a disloyal servant; or of a seal to keep an erring wife at home. (Sirach 42:1,5-6 NAB) Eunuchs and Virgins are Special in Heaven Yes, blessed is she who, childless and undefiled, knew not transgression of the marriage bed; she shall bear fruit at the visitation of souls. So also the eunuch whose hand wrought no misdeed, who held no wicked thoughts against the LORD- For he shall be given fidelity's choice reward and a more gratifying heritage in the LORD'S temple. (Wisdom 3:13-14 NAB) Human Sacrifice Chastised a little, they shall be greatly blessed, because God tried them and found them worthy of himself. As gold in the furnace, he proved them, and as sacrificial offerings he took them to himself. In the time of their visitation they shall shine, and shall dart about as sparks through stubble; (Wisdom 3:5-7 NAB) God's Anger So the Sovereign LORD says: "I will pour out my terrible fury on this place. Its people, animals, trees, and crops will be consumed by the unquenchable fire of my anger." (Jeremiah 7:20 NLT) The Valley of Slaughter So beware, for the time is coming," says the LORD, "when that place will no longer be called Topheth or the valley of the son of Hinnom, but the Valley of Slaughter. They will bury so many bodies in Topheth that there won't be room for all the graves. The corpses of my people will be food for the vultures and wild animals, and no one will be left to scare them away. I will put an end to the happy singing and laughter in the streets of Jerusalem. The joyful voices of bridegrooms and brides will no longer be heard in the towns of Judah. The land will lie in complete desolation. (Jeremiah 7:32-34 NLT) Kick Out Foreigners At that time, when there was reading from the book of Moses in the hearing of the people, it was found written there that "no Ammonite or Moabite may ever be admitted into the assembly of God; for they would not succor the Israelites with food and water, but they hired Balaam to curse them, though our God turned the curse into a blessing." When they had heard the law, they separated from Israel every foreign element. (Nehemiah 13:1-3 NAB) Interracial Marriage a Sin After all that has come upon us for our evil deeds and our great guilt-though you, our God, have made less of our sinfulness than it deserved and have allowed us to survive as we do-- shall we again violate your commandments by intermarrying with these abominable peoples? Would you not become so angered with us as to destroy us without remnant or survivor? O LORD, God of Israel, you are just; yet we have been spared, the remnant we are today. Here we are before you in our sins. Because of all this, we can no longer stand in your presence. (Ezra 9:13-15 NAB) Desert Wives and Children Then Shecaniah, the son of Jehiel, one of the sons of Elam, made this appeal to Ezra: "We have indeed betrayed our God by taking as wives foreign women of the peoples of the land. Yet even now there remains a hope for Israel. Let us therefore enter into a covenant before our God to dismiss all our foreign wives and the children born of them, in keeping with what you, my lord, advise, and those who fear the commandments of our God. Let the law be observed! Rise, then, for this is your duty! We will stand by you, so have courage and take action!" Ezra rose to his feet and demanded an oath from the chiefs of the priests, from the Levites and from all Israel that they would do as had been proposed; and they swore it. Then Ezra retired from his place before the house of God and entered the chamber of Johanan, son of Eliashib, where he spent the night neither eating food nor drinking water, for he was in mourning over the betrayal by the exiles. A proclamation was made throughout Judah and Jerusalem that all the exiles should gather together in Jerusalem, and that whoever failed to appear within three days would, according to the judgment of the leaders and elders, suffer the confiscation of all his possessions, and himself be excluded from the assembly of the exiles. All the men of Judah and Benjamin gathered together in Jerusalem within the three-day period: it was in the ninth month, on the twentieth day of the month. All the people, standing in the open place before the house of God, were trembling both over the matter at hand and because it was raining. Then Ezra, the priest, stood up and said to them: "Your unfaithfulness in taking foreign women as wives has added to Israel's guilt. But now, give praise to the LORD, the God of your fathers, and do his will: separate yourselves from the peoples of the land and from these foreign women." In answer, the whole assembly cried out with a loud voice: "Yes, it is our duty to do as you say! But the people are numerous and it is the rainy season, so that we cannot remain out-of-doors; besides, this is not a task that can be performed in a single day or even two, for those of us who have sinned in this regard are many. Let our leaders represent the whole assembly; then let all those in our cities who have taken foreign women for wives appear at appointed times, accompanied by the elders and magistrates of each city in question, till we have turned away from us our God's burning anger over this affair." Only Jonathan, son of Asahel, and Jahzeiah, son of Tikvah, were against this proposal, with Meshullam and Shabbethai the Levite supporting them. The exiles did as agreed. Ezra appointed as his assistants men who were family heads, one for each family, all of them designated by name. They held sessions to examine the matter, beginning with the first day of the tenth month. By the first day of the first month they had passed judgment on all the men who had taken foreign women for wives. Among the priests, the following were found to have taken foreign women for wives: [snipped list of names]... (verse 44) All these had taken foreign wives; but they sent them away, both the women and their children. (Ezra 10:2-44 NAB) Gold for God "I will shake all the nations, and the treasures of all the nations will come in, And I will fill this house with glory, says the Lord of hosts. Mine is the silver and mine is the Gold says the Lord of hosts." (Haggai 2:7-8 NAB) Shit-faced Priests "Listen, you priests; this command is for you! Listen to me and take it to heart. Honor my name," says the LORD Almighty, "or I will bring a terrible curse against you. I will curse even the blessings you receive. Indeed, I have already cursed them, because you have not taken my warning seriously. I will rebuke your descendants and splatter your faces with the dung of your festival sacrifices, and I will add you to the dung heap. Then at last you will know it was I who sent you this warning so that my covenant with the Levites may continue," says the LORD Almighty. (Malachi 2:1-4 NLT) God Kills Children "As surely as I live, says the Sovereign LORD, I will cut you off completely. I will show you no pity at all because you have defiled my Temple with idols and vile practices. A third of your people will die in the city from famine and disease. A third of them will be slaughtered by the enemy outside the city walls. And I will scatter a third to the winds and chase them with my sword. Then at last my anger will be spent, and I will be satisfied. And when my fury against them has subsided, all Israel will know that I, the LORD, have spoken to them in my jealous anger. "So I will turn you into a ruin, a mockery in the eyes of the surrounding nations and to everyone who travels by. You will become an object of mockery and taunting and horror. You will be a warning to all the nations around you. They will see what happens when the LORD turns against a nation in furious rebuke. I, the LORD, have spoken! (Ezekiel 5:11-15) Cannibalism So this is what the Sovereign LORD says: Since you have refused to obey my laws and regulations and have behaved even worse than your neighbors, I myself, the Sovereign LORD, am now your enemy. I will punish you publicly while all the nations watch. Because of your detestable idols, I will punish you more severely than I have punished anyone before or ever will again. Parents will eat their own children, and children will eat their parents. And I will punish you by scattering the few who survive to the far reaches of the earth. (Ezekiel 5:7-10) Jesus Steals a Colt As they came to the towns of Bethphage and Bethany, on the Mount of Olives, he sent two disciples ahead. "Go into that village over there," he told them, "and as you enter it, you will see a colt tied there that has never been ridden. Untie it and bring it here. If anyone asks what you are doing, just say, 'The Lord needs it.'" So they went and found the colt, just as Jesus had said. And sure enough, as they were untying it, the owners asked them, "Why are you untying our colt?" And the disciples simply replied, "The Lord needs it." So they brought the colt to Jesus and threw their garments over it for him to ride on. (Luke 19:29-35) Strange Fire Aaron's sons Nadab and Abihu put coals of fire in their incense burners and sprinkled incense over it. In this way, they disobeyed the LORD by burning before him a different kind of fire than he had commanded. So fire blazed forth from the LORD's presence and burned them up, and they died there before the LORD. (Leviticus 10:1-2 NLT) Lust is Adultery But I say, anyone who even looks at a woman with lust in his eye has already committed adultery with her in his heart. So if your eye – even if it is your good eye – causes you to lust, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. And if your hand – even if it is your stronger hand – causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. (Matthew 5:28-30 NLT) Remarriage is Adultery Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and the one who marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery. (Luke 16:18 NAB) Death to Nonbelievers The LORD answered: Because they have abandoned my law, which I set before them, and have not followed it or listened to my voice, but followed rather the hardness of their hearts and the Baals, as their fathers had taught them; therefore, thus says the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel: See now, I will give them wormwood to eat and poison to drink. I will scatter them among nations whom neither they nor their fathers have known; I will send the sword to pursue them until I have completely destroyed them. (Jeremiah 9:12-15 NAB) 1) Capital Punishment Crimes: Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT) Kill Witches You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB) Kill Fortunetellers A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB) Death for Hitting Dad Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB) Death for Cursing Parents 1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB) 2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT) Death for Adultery If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT) Death for Fornication A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB) Death to Followers of Other Religions Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB) Kill Nonbelievers They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB) Kill False Prophets If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB) Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT) Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB) Kill Followers of Other Religions. 1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB) 2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT) Death for Blasphemy One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD's name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother's name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD's will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, "Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD's name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD's name will surely die. (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT) Kill False Prophets 1) Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles, and the predicted signs or miracles take place. If the prophets then say, 'Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,' do not listen to them. The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul. Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone. Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him. The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt. Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT) 2) But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.' You may wonder, 'How will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?' If the prophet predicts something in the LORD's name and it does not happen, the LORD did not give the message. That prophet has spoken on his own and need not be feared. (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NLT) Infidels and Gays Should Die So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies. Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving. They are fully aware of God's death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. (Romans 1:24-32 NLT) Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle For the LORD had said to Moses, 'Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites. You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment. They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it. Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again. Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.' (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT) Kill People for Working on the Sabbath The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT) God's Murders for Stupid Reasons: Kill Brats From there Elisha went up to Bethel. While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him. "Go up baldhead," they shouted, "go up baldhead!" The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces. (2 Kings 2:23-24 NAB) God Kills the Curious And he smote of the men of Beth-shemesh, because they had looked into the ark of Jehovah, he smote of the people seventy men, `and' fifty thousand men; and the people mourned, because Jehovah had smitten the people with a great slaughter. And the men of Beth-shemesh said, Who is able to stand before Jehovah, this holy God? and to whom shall he go up from us? (1Samuel 6:19-20 ASV) Killed by a Lion Meanwhile, the LORD instructed one of the group of prophets to say to another man, "Strike me!" But the man refused to strike the prophet. Then the prophet told him, "Because you have not obeyed the voice of the LORD, a lion will kill you as soon as you leave me." And sure enough, when he had gone, a lion attacked and killed him. (1 Kings 20:35-36 NLT) Killing the Good Samaritan The ark of God was placed on a new cart and taken away from the house of Abinadab on the hill. Uzzah and Ahio, sons of Abinadab guided the cart, with Ahio walking before it, while David and all the Israelites made merry before the Lord with all their strength, with singing and with citharas, harps, tambourines, sistrums, and cymbals. When they came to the threshing floor of Nodan, Uzzah reached out his hand to the ark of God to steady it, for the oxen were making it tip. But the Lord was angry with Uzzah; God struck him on that spot, and he died there before God. (2 Samuel 6:3-7 NAB) Murdering Children Kill Sons of Sinners Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants. (Isaiah 14:21 NAB) God Will Kill Children The glory of Israel will fly away like a bird, for your children will die at birth or perish in the womb or never even be conceived. Even if your children do survive to grow up, I will take them from you. It will be a terrible day when I turn away and leave you alone. I have watched Israel become as beautiful and pleasant as Tyre. But now Israel will bring out her children to be slaughtered." O LORD, what should I request for your people? I will ask for wombs that don't give birth and breasts that give no milk. The LORD says, "All their wickedness began at Gilgal; there I began to hate them. I will drive them from my land because of their evil actions. I will love them no more because all their leaders are rebels. The people of Israel are stricken. Their roots are dried up; they will bear no more fruit. And if they give birth, I will slaughter their beloved children." (Hosea 9:11-16 NLT) Kill Men, Women, and Children "Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told." (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT) God Kills all the First Born of Egypt And at midnight the LORD killed all the firstborn sons in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn son of the captive in the dungeon. Even the firstborn of their livestock were killed. Pharaoh and his officials and all the people of Egypt woke up during the night, and loud wailing was heard throughout the land of Egypt. There was not a single house where someone had not died. (Exodus 12:29-30 NLT) Kill Old Men and Young Women "You are my battle-ax and sword," says the LORD. "With you I will shatter nations and destroy many kingdoms. With you I will shatter armies, destroying the horse and rider, the chariot and charioteer. With you I will shatter men and women, old people and children, young men and maidens. With you I will shatter shepherds and flocks, farmers and oxen, captains and rulers. "As you watch, I will repay Babylon and the people of Babylonia for all the wrong they have done to my people in Jerusalem," says the LORD. "Look, O mighty mountain, destroyer of the earth! I am your enemy," says the LORD. "I will raise my fist against you, to roll you down from the heights. When I am finished, you will be nothing but a heap of rubble. You will be desolate forever. Even your stones will never again be used for building. You will be completely wiped out," says the LORD. (Jeremiah 51:20-26) (Note that after God promises the Israelites a victory against Babylon, the Israelites actually get their butts kicked by them in the next chapter. So much for an all-knowing and all-powerful God.) God Will Kill the Children of Sinners If even then you remain hostile toward me and refuse to obey, I will inflict you with seven more disasters for your sins. I will release wild animals that will kill your children and destroy your cattle, so your numbers will dwindle and your roads will be deserted. (Leviticus 26:21-22 NLT) More Rape and Baby Killing Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. (Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT) Miscellaneous Murders More of Samson's Murders (The Lord saves Sampson from standing trial for 30 murders and arson by allowing him to kill 1000 more men.) When he reached Lehi, and the Philistines came shouting to meet him, the spirit of the Lord came upon him: the ropes around his arms become as flax that is consumed by fire and the bonds melted away from his hands. Near him was the fresh jawbone of an ass; he reached out, grasped it, and with it killed a thousand men. (Judges 15:14-15 NAB) Peter Kills Two People There was also a man named Ananias who, with his wife, Sapphira, sold some property. He brought part of the money to the apostles, but he claimed it was the full amount. His wife had agreed to this deception. Then Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart? You lied to the Holy Spirit, and you kept some of the money for yourself. The property was yours to sell or not sell, as you wished. And after selling it, the money was yours to give away. How could you do a thing like this? You weren't lying to us but to God." As soon as Ananias heard these words, he fell to the floor and died. Everyone who heard about it was terrified. Then some young men wrapped him in a sheet and took him out and buried him. About three hours later his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. Peter asked her, "Was this the price you and your husband received for your land?" "Yes," she replied, "that was the price." And Peter said, "How could the two of you even think of doing a thing like this – conspiring together to test the Spirit of the Lord? Just outside that door are the young men who buried your husband, and they will carry you out, too." Instantly, she fell to the floor and died. When the young men came in and saw that she was dead, they carried her out and buried her beside her husband. Great fear gripped the entire church and all others who heard what had happened. (Acts 5:1-11 NLT) Mass Murder This is what the Lord of hosts has to say: 'I will punish what Amalek did to Israel when he barred his way as he was coming up from Egypt. Go, now, attack Amalek, and deal with him and all that he has under the ban. Do not spare him, but kill men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and asses.' (1 Samuel 15:2-3 NAB) You Have to Kill Cursed be he who does the Lords work remissly, cursed he who holds back his sword from blood. (Jeremiah 48:10 NAB) The Danites Kill the Next Town But the territory of the Danites was too small for them; so the Danites marched up and attacked Leshem, which they captured and put to the sword. Once they had taken possession of Lesham, they renamed the settlement after their ancestor Dan. (Joshua 19:47 NAB) God Kills Some More Then the LORD said to me, "Even if Moses and Samuel stood before me pleading for these people, I wouldn't help them. Away with them! Get them out of my sight! And if they say to you, 'But where can we go?' tell them, 'This is what the LORD says: Those who are destined for death, to death; those who are destined for war, to war; those who are destined for famine, to famine; those who are destined for captivity, to captivity.' "I will send four kinds of destroyers against them," says the LORD. "I will send the sword to kill, the dogs to drag away, the vultures to devour, and the wild animals to finish up what is left. Because of the wicked things Manasseh son of Hezekiah, king of Judah, did in Jerusalem, I will make my people an object of horror to all the kingdoms of the earth." (Jeremiah 15:1-4 NLT) God Promises More Killing I will make Mount Seir utterly desolate, killing off all who try to escape and any who return. I will fill your mountains with the dead. Your hills, your valleys, and your streams will be filled with people slaughtered by the sword. I will make you desolate forever. Your cities will never be rebuilt. Then you will know that I am the LORD. (Ezekiel 35:7-9 NLT) The Angel of Death My angel will go before you and bring you to the Amorites, Hittites, Perizzites, Canaanites, Hivites, and Jebusites; and I will wipe them out. (Exodus 23:23 NAB) Destruction of Ai Then the LORD said to Joshua, "Do not be afraid or discouraged. Take the entire army and attack Ai, for I have given to you the king of Ai, his people, his city, and his land. You will destroy them as you destroyed Jericho and its king. But this time you may keep the captured goods and the cattle for yourselves. Set an ambush behind the city." So Joshua and the army of Israel set out to attack Ai. Joshua chose thirty thousand fighting men and sent them out at night with these orders: "Hide in ambush close behind the city and be ready for action. When our main army attacks, the men of Ai will come out to fight as they did before, and we will run away from them. We will let them chase us until they have all left the city. For they will say, 'The Israelites are running away from us as they did before.' Then you will jump up from your ambush and take possession of the city, for the LORD your God will give it to you. Set the city on fire, as the LORD has commanded. You have your orders." So they left that night and lay in ambush between Bethel and the west side of Ai. But Joshua remained among the people in the camp that night. Early the next morning Joshua roused his men and started toward Ai, accompanied by the leaders of Israel. They camped on the north side of Ai, with a valley between them and the city. That night Joshua sent five thousand men to lie in ambush between Bethel and Ai, on the west side of the city. So they stationed the main army north of the city and the ambush west of the city. Joshua himself spent that night in the valley. When the king of Ai saw the Israelites across the valley, he and all his army hurriedly went out early the next morning and attacked the Israelites at a place overlooking the Jordan Valley. But he didn't realize there was an ambush behind the city. Joshua and the Israelite army fled toward the wilderness as though they were badly beaten, and all the men in the city were called out to chase after them. In this way, they were lured away from the city. There was not a man left in Ai or Bethel who did not chase after the Israelites, and the city was left wide open. Then the LORD said to Joshua, "Point your spear toward Ai, for I will give you the city." Joshua did as he was commanded. As soon as Joshua gave the signal, the men in ambush jumped up and poured into the city. They quickly captured it and set it on fire. When the men of Ai looked behind them, smoke from the city was filling the sky, and they had nowhere to go. For the Israelites who had fled in the direction of the wilderness now turned on their pursuers. When Joshua and the other Israelites saw that the ambush had succeeded and that smoke was rising from the city, they turned and attacked the men of Ai. Then the Israelites who were inside the city came out and started killing the enemy from the rear. So the men of Ai were caught in a trap, and all of them died. Not a single person survived or escaped. Only the king of Ai was taken alive and brought to Joshua. When the Israelite army finished killing all the men outside the city, they went back and finished off everyone inside. So the entire population of Ai was wiped out that day – twelve thousand in all. For Joshua kept holding out his spear until everyone who had lived in Ai was completely destroyed. Only the cattle and the treasures of the city were not destroyed, for the Israelites kept these for themselves, as the LORD had commanded Joshua. So Ai became a permanent mound of ruins, desolate to this very day. Joshua hung the king of Ai on a tree and left him there until evening. At sunset the Israelites took down the body and threw it in front of the city gate. They piled a great heap of stones over him that can still be seen today. (Joshua 8:1-29 NLT) Killing at Jericho When the people heard the sound of the horns, they shouted as loud as they could. Suddenly, the walls of Jericho collapsed, and the Israelites charged straight into the city from every side and captured it. They completely destroyed everything in it – men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep, donkeys – everything. (Joshua 6:20-21 NLT) God Kills an Extended Family "You have done more evil than all who lived before you. You have made other gods and have made me furious with your gold calves. And since you have turned your back on me, I will bring disaster on your dynasty and kill all your sons, slave or free alike. I will burn up your royal dynasty as one burns up trash until it is all gone. I, the LORD, vow that the members of your family who die in the city will be eaten by dogs, and those who die in the field will be eaten by vultures.'" Then Ahijah said to Jeroboam's wife, "Go on home, and when you enter the city, the child will die. All Israel will mourn for him and bury him. He is the only member of your family who will have a proper burial, for this child is the only good thing that the LORD, the God of Israel, sees in the entire family of Jeroboam. And the LORD will raise up a king over Israel who will destroy the family of Jeroboam. This will happen today, even now! Then the LORD will shake Israel like a reed whipped about in a stream. He will uproot the people of Israel from this good land that he gave their ancestors and will scatter them beyond the Euphrates River, for they have angered the LORD by worshiping Asherah poles. He will abandon Israel because Jeroboam sinned and made all of Israel sin along with him." (1 Kings 14:9-16 NLT) Mass Murder The men of Israel withdrew through the territory of the Benjaminites, putting to the sword the inhabitants of the city, the livestock, and all they chanced upon. Moreover they destroyed by fire all the cities they came upon. (Judges 20:48 NAB) The Angel of Death That night the angel of the Lord went forth and struck down one hundred and eighty five thousand men in the Assyrian camp. Early the next morning, there they were, all the corpuses of the dead. (2 Kings 19:35 NAB) Kill Your Neighbors (Moses) stood at the entrance to the camp and shouted, "All of you who are on the LORD's side, come over here and join me." And all the Levites came. He told them, "This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: Strap on your swords! Go back and forth from one end of the camp to the other, killing even your brothers, friends, and neighbors." The Levites obeyed Moses, and about three thousand people died that day. Then Moses told the Levites, "Today you have been ordained for the service of the LORD, for you obeyed him even though it meant killing your own sons and brothers. Because of this, he will now give you a great blessing." (Exodus 32:26-29 NLT) Kill the Family of Sinners And Joshua said to Achan, My son, give, I pray thee, glory to the LORD God of Israel, and make confession to him; and tell me now what thou hast done, hide it not from me. And Achan answered Joshua, and said, Indeed I have sinned against the LORD God of Israel, and thus and thus have I done. When I saw among the spoils a goodly Babylonish garment, and two hundred shekels of silver, and a wedge of gold of fifty shekels weight, then I coveted them, and took them, and behold, they are hid in the earth in the midst of my tent, and the silver under it." [Note that the sin is not looting, but failing to give the loot to the treasury of the Lord.] "So Joshua sent messengers, and they ran to the tent, and behold, it was hid in his tent, and the silver under it. And they took them from the midst of the tent, and brought them to Joshua, and to all the children of Israel, and laid them out before the LORD. And Joshua, and all Israel with him, took Achan the son of Zerah, and the silver, and the garment, and the wedge of gold, and his sons, and his daughters, and his oxen, and his asses, and his sheep, and his tent, and all that he had: and they brought them to the valley of Achor. And Joshua said, why hast thou troubled us? the LORD shall trouble thee this day. And all Israel stoned him with stones, and burned them with fire, after they had stoned them with stones. And they raised over him a great heap of stones to this day. So the LORD turned from the fierceness of his anger: wherefore the name of that place was called the valley of Achor to this day. (Joshua 7:19-26 Webster's Bible) Kill Followers of Other Religions While the Israelites were camped at Acacia, some of the men defiled themselves by sleeping with the local Moabite women. These women invited them to attend sacrifices to their gods, and soon the Israelites were feasting with them and worshiping the gods of Moab. Before long Israel was joining in the worship of Baal of Peor, causing the LORD's anger to blaze against his people. The LORD issued the following command to Moses: "Seize all the ringleaders and execute them before the LORD in broad daylight, so his fierce anger will turn away from the people of Israel." So Moses ordered Israel's judges to execute everyone who had joined in worshiping Baal of Peor. Just then one of the Israelite men brought a Midianite woman into the camp, right before the eyes of Moses and all the people, as they were weeping at the entrance of the Tabernacle. When Phinehas son of Eleazar and grandson of Aaron the priest saw this, he jumped up and left the assembly. Then he took a spear and rushed after the man into his tent. Phinehas thrust the spear all the way through the man's body and into the woman's stomach. So the plague against the Israelites was stopped, but not before 24,000 people had died. (Numbers 25:1-9 NLT) Murder At the customary time for offering the evening sacrifice, Elijah the prophet walked up to the altar and prayed, "O LORD, God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, prove today that you are God in Israel and that I am your servant. Prove that I have done all this at your command. O LORD, answer me! Answer me so these people will know that you, O LORD, are God and that you have brought them back to yourself." Immediately the fire of the LORD flashed down from heaven and burned up the young bull, the wood, the stones, and the dust. It even licked up all the water in the ditch! And when the people saw it, they fell on their faces and cried out, "The LORD is God! The LORD is God!" Then Elijah commanded, "Seize all the prophets of Baal. Don't let a single one escape!" So the people seized them all, and Elijah took them down to the Kishon Valley and killed them there. (1 Kings 18:36-40 NLT) Kill All of Babylon "Go up, my warriors, against the land of Merathaim and against the people of Pekod. Yes, march against Babylon, the land of rebels, a land that I will judge! Pursue, kill, and completely destroy them, as I have commanded you," says the LORD. "Let the battle cry be heard in the land, a shout of great destruction". (Jeremiah 50:21-22 NLT) Should we kill? Exodus 20:13 "Thou shalt not kill." Leviticus 24:17 "And he that killeth any man shall surely be put to death." vs. Exodus 32:27 "Thus sayeth the Lord God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, . . . and slay every man his brother, . . . companion, . . . neighbor." I Samuel 6:19 " . . . and the people lamented because the Lord had smitten many of the people with a great slaughter." I Samuel 15:2,3,7,8 "Thus saith the Lord . . . Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass. . . . And Saul smote the Amalekites . . . and utterly destroyed all the people with the edge of the sword." Numbers 15:36 "And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses." Hosea 13:16 "they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with children shall be ripped up." For a discussion of the defense that the Commandments prohibit only murder, see "Murder, He Wrote", chapter 27 Should we tell lies? Exodus 20:16 "Thou shalt not bear false witness." Proverbs 12:22 "Lying lips are an abomination to the Lord." vs. I Kings 22:23 "The Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee." II Thessalonians 2:11 "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie." Also, compare Joshua 2:4-6 with James 2:25. Should we steal? Exodus 20:15 "Thou shalt not steal." Leviticus 19:13 "Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbor, neither rob him." vs. Exodus 3:22 "And ye shall spoil the Egyptians." Exodus 12:35-36 "And they spoiled [plundered, NRSV] the Egyptians." Luke 19:29-34 "[Jesus] sent two of his disciples, Saying, Go ye into the village . . . ye shall find a colt tied, whereon yet never man sat: loose him, and bring him hither. And if any man ask you, Why do ye loose him? thus shall ye say unto him, Because the Lord hath need of him. . . . And as they were loosing the colt, the owners thereof said unto them, Why loose ye the colt? And they said, The Lord hath need of him." I was taught as a child that when you take something without asking for it, that is stealing. Shall we keep the sabbath? Exodus 20:8 "Remember the sabbath day to keep it holy." Exodus 31:15 "Whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death." Numbers 15:32,36 "And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. . . . And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses." vs. Isaiah 1:13 "The new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity." John 5:16 "And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day." Colossians 2:16 "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holy-day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days." Shall we make graven images? Exodus 20:4 "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven . . . earth . . . water." Leviticus 26:1 "Ye shall make ye no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone." Deuteronomy 27:15 "Cursed be the man that maketh any graven or molten image." vs. Exodus 25:18 "And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them." I Kings 7:15,16,23,25 "For he [Solomon] cast two pillars of brass . . . and two chapiters of molten brass . . . And he made a molten sea . . . it stood upon twelve oxen . . . [and so on]" Are we saved through works? Ephesians 2:8,9 "For by grace are ye saved through faith . . . not of works." Romans 3:20,28 "Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight." Galatians 2:16 "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ." vs. James 2:24 "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." Matthew 19:16-21 "And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he [Jesus] said unto him . . . keep the commandments. . . . The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven." The common defense here is that "we are saved by faith and works." But Paul said "not of works." Should good works be seen? Matthew 5:16 "Let your light so shine before men that they may see your good works." I Peter 2:12 "Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that . . . they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation." vs. Matthew 6:1-4 "Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them . . . that thine alms may be in secret." Matthew 23:3,5 "Do not ye after their [Pharisees'] works. . . . all their works they do for to be seen of men." Should we own slaves? Leviticus 25:45-46 "Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, . . . and they shall be your possession . . . they shall be your bondmen forever." Genesis 9:25 "And he [Noah] said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren." Exodus 21:2,7 "If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing. . . . And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the manservants do." Joel 3:8 "And I will sell your sons and your daughters into the hand of the children of Judah, and they shall sell them to the Sabeans, to a people far off: for the Lord hath spoken it." Luke 12:47,48 [Jesus speaking] "And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes." Colossians 3:22 "Servants, obey in all things your masters." vs. Isaiah 58:6 "Undo the heavy burdens . . . let the oppressed go free, . . . break every yoke." Matthew 23:10 "Neither be ye called Masters: for one is your Master, even Christ." Pro-slavery bible verses were cited by many churches in the South during the Civil War, and were used by some theologians in the Dutch Reformed Church to justify apartheid in South Africa. There are more pro-sla |