| QUOTE (Mad_Gerbil @ Mar 10 2005, 06:01 AM) |
| ...because we are already dead. |
Spiritually dead, right?
Then when you die die, you become
spiritually alive, or something like that,
right?
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| Open Forums for ExChristian.Net > Debating with Christians > Praying for Death |
| Posted by: Vixentrox Mar 9 2005, 10:55 PM |
| How come Xtians seem to never actively pray for their own deaths and those they love? Why stick around this world when there is pain, suffering, the chance to loose faith, ect. Why wish that on your children and loved ones? Shouldn't you all be praying for early deaths to get to the joys of eternal bliss sooner? Sure you can add "thy will be done" by why not actively pray for your own death? |
| Posted by: Merlinfmct87 Mar 10 2005, 12:28 AM |
| You obviously haven't read too much about most of the Female saints. Many prayed for Martyrdom.. or at least that's what was written down. Merlin |
| Posted by: Mad_Gerbil Mar 10 2005, 03:01 AM | ||
...because we are already dead. *opens mouth to reveal sharp fangs* |
| Posted by: Fweethawt Mar 10 2005, 03:04 AM | ||
Spiritually dead, right? Then when you die die, you become spiritually alive, or something like that, right? |
| Posted by: Necrosmith Mar 10 2005, 03:05 AM |
| Many of my Christian in-laws can't wait to die. They tell me all the time how they hate this life and want to move on. It's really a cult of death if you think about it. The belief system marginalizes life..unless it's a fetus. |
| Posted by: Mad_Gerbil Mar 10 2005, 03:05 AM |
| Seriously. That reminds me of a Simpsons episode where the Flander's house is destroyed by a tornado. Maude Flanders emerges from the rubble and says something like "Thank the Lord we survived -- we were nearly swept into the realms of eternal bliss". Praying for death seems to be cowardly thing to do, in my estimation. I can see why people would get to that point due to circumstances but it seems to run counter to human nature. I don't pray for it because my life is flying by so fast anyways and I'm learning a great deal here. For me, death is just a transition from this classroom to the next. Fortunately, it is one prayer that would be answered at some point in one's lifetime. |
| Posted by: Mad_Gerbil Mar 10 2005, 03:07 AM | ||
This coming from someone with the name Necrosmith? |
| Posted by: Mad_Gerbil Mar 10 2005, 03:09 AM | ||||
No, you got it all wrong. We die to self so that the death of another can raise to life that which is spiritually dead and we look forward to the physical death so that the spiritual life can be fully realized in a second life for the body which is dead -- although it isn't a second physical life since it's an entirely new life with a new body and a new spiritual nature too as opposed to those that are spiritually dead and have the second spiritual death to look forward to after their first physical death. I hope that helps. |
| Posted by: Fweethawt Mar 10 2005, 03:14 AM | ||||||
Oh it helps alright. The only way I can really understand it though is to put on my old Fear of Death Helmet. Then, and only then, does that make perfect sense.  ===================================== The sad part is, this was one of those time where you weren't trying to be funny.  |
| Posted by: Mad_Gerbil Mar 10 2005, 03:15 AM |
| ..actually Fwee, that was a joke. I admire incoherent posts.  |
| Posted by: Pseudonym Mar 10 2005, 03:28 AM |
| Gerbil, whenever I'm feeling down, I can always rely on your delightful grasp of irony to perk me right back up again, and that's not an ability many Christians could lay claim to. |
| Posted by: Reach Mar 10 2005, 03:53 AM | ||
Jeanne Guyon (more commonly called Madame Guyon), prayed for her death. Her writings and her life (1648-1717) reveal the low position women held in her day. She was one of the main leaders (in France) and writers of the seventeenth century movement known as Quietism, which downplayed the importance of works in religion and emphasized a total surrender to God. Soon after her arranged marriage as a teenager of fifteen to a wealthy middle-aged nobleman of 37, Guyon came to believe that true happiness could only be found in devotion to God. She turned her back on high society life and spent her time reading devotional books and doing charitable works. It's interesting to note that her husband was completely turned off by her constant (quiet) life style of prayer and he forbid her to pray aloud. She moved to silent prayer and meditation which continued to frustrate him throughout their marriage. When he died, she took to the roads, living as a traveling pilgrim/evangelist who focused on living a life of "personal, inner holiness." "In seventeenth century France the Quietists, Monsieur de Molinos, Madame Guyon and Archbishop Fenelon, condemned human effort. They believed that, to attain perfection, man must be passive. He must abandon himself to God to the extent that he does not even care for his own salvation. This state can be reached in prayer. When it is truly achieved, sin is impossible. Temptation may come, and even compel the Quietist to perform actions which would be sinful in others. But because he no longer has a will of his own, the actions are not sin." (From Eerdmans' Handbook to the History of Christianity. Grand Rapids: William B. Eerdmans Publishing Co., 1985, pg. 498) For more info, her full name is Jeanne Marie Bouvier De La Motte Guyon. She is reviled by many in Protestantism, for her http://www.pfo.org/mguyon.htm |
| Posted by: .:webmaster:. Mar 10 2005, 04:07 AM |
| In the seventies when Rapture fever was having an extraordinary resurgence of popularity, I was winning souls to Christ, leading small groups, and performing on stage in a group that performed music from Billy Graham movies. All everyone talked about was leaving this world of sin and pain, the domain of Satan. Hal Lindsey had the best selling book and we all had to read it. The END IS NEAR - REPENT! Christianity in the final analysis is a death cult, pure and simple. Love not the world neither the things in the world - if any man love the world the love of the Father is NOT in him. If you love your life, you don't love GAWD! |
| Posted by: Reach Mar 10 2005, 04:18 AM | ||
I find it amazing that we were instructed (by the Bible) to love the world and its people enough that we would perform the "Great Commission" of evangelism, yet on the other hand, we were to have an almost mindless disconnection from our world (which our benevolent Creator had so lovingly designed for us) and to divorce it in hatred to the extent that we would hold the world and life and all of its pleasure in derision. We were to value life but to hate childbirth? I can't hardly believe the crap we swallowed. Of course, in many cases, we had it forced down our throats from birth. |
| Posted by: Vixentrox Mar 10 2005, 07:04 AM |
| While individuals certainly have prayed for it and people in extremis may pray for it.....it's not you typical Sunday service prayer. "Thank you for you many blessings father, please, if it be your will, kill us all now, here in your holy house of worship so that we may join your presence in heaven...." |
| Posted by: Reach Mar 10 2005, 07:12 AM |
| That's for sure. When Christians are going through bad times we often hear rumblings to the tune of, "Oh God! This world is so wicked. Get me out of here!" In all seriousness, however, Christians seem to be just as afraid of death as non-Christians, and sometimes, much more so. They seem to hold on to life as much as an unbeliever, all the while saying that their "eternity" is a settled issue. |
| Posted by: Vixentrox Mar 10 2005, 08:13 AM | ||
Which just proves they are lying sacks of shit.  |
| Posted by: ObbiQuiet Mar 10 2005, 02:28 PM |
| The sheer reaction of Christians at someone close to them dying has always made me wonder if there isn't a small part of them that doesn't believe in eternal life, like there's a subconscious part of them that still doesn't believe in theism. Of course the reaction could also just be a social one - they see people weep at funerals, thus despite what they believe, they do also. |
| Posted by: quicksand Mar 10 2005, 02:57 PM |
| The continued existance of Christianity is ego driven. The God they talk to is the reflection of themselves talking back. A metaphysical ego stroke. When I hear the words "We were created to glorify God. And glorify Him forever in Heaven we will." I just want to puke. Please. Why do you want to live forever? What makes you so special amongst the fecundity of not only our species on this planet but every other species here now or extinct? Hunh? What? Oh yeah, you're saved. It's that arrogance that I can't stomach, wrapped up in the feel-good blanket of religion. Which is the "real-religion" behind all the bickering of what bible to use, whose sect is right, what hermeneutically approved way of interpreting certain words, blah blah blah. It is the real religion because it effectively targets all people's ego and self-absorption, making easy converts. Fear of death, stroke the ego, feed the desire to preserve your own butt, now go beat up some fags, but righteously now! Listen, you're worm food whether you like it or not. Sucks. I know. But live up to it. |
| Posted by: Madame M Mar 10 2005, 03:20 PM | ||
Prayer: "Now I lay me down to sleep, I pray the Lord my soul to keep. If I should die before I wake, I pray the Lord my soul to take. Amen." My dad prayed that prayer with me every night at bedtime from ages 8-11. Kind of a freaky prayer. |
| Posted by: Vixentrox Mar 10 2005, 04:36 PM | ||||
But its not: "Now I lay me down to sleep, I pray the Lord my life to take. If I should die before I wake, I pray the Lord my soul to take. Amen." |
| Posted by: Cerise Mar 10 2005, 04:45 PM |
| You can live soulless? Isn't taking ones soul analogous to taking ones life in the Christian sense? |
| Posted by: Tocis Mar 10 2005, 10:58 PM | ||
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| Posted by: Madame M Mar 11 2005, 01:17 PM | ||||||
I was just pointing out the focus on death and dying. |