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| Posted by: sexkitten Oct 12 2004, 03:34 PM |
| Printable Version of Topic Click here to view this topic in its original format ExChristian.Net Open Forums > Debating with Christians > No More Words From God? Posted by: Reality Amplifier Jan 18 2004, 07:06 PM Does it strike anyone as somewhat odd that God evidently decided to do an about-face and stop directly communicating with humanity approximately 2000 years ago? Perhaps God has determined that most people would not believe in any direct communications from Him today? However, many people already dismiss the bible as the word of God these days, not to mention all those belonging to all the various non-Christian religions who could not help but take note of an obvious divine communication from the Almighty. Yet according to Christian mythology, God used to do really cool stuff to prove he was communicating to mankind (providing spectacular foundations for faith), by making the earth stop turning on its axis without creating a global cataclysm of tidal waves and earthquakes; sending fire from heaven; flooding the earth; turning staffs into serpents; sending the 10 plagues; raising the dead; parting the red sea, walking on water; etc. Mankind had to wait nearly 500 years before the bible was collated and then voted on so that mankind at least had a collection of works purporting to be the words of God…after God fell silent. Seems like it’s been awfully quite out there if you think about it. Posted by: HeathenM0M Jan 18 2004, 08:05 PM QUOTE Perhaps God has determined that most people would not believe in any direct communications from Him today? Perhaps you're correct. Maybe it's for the same reason that aliens only communicate with certain kinds of people? QUOTE Yet according to Christian mythology, God used to do really cool stuff to prove he was communicating to mankind (providing spectacular foundations for faith), by making the earth stop turning on its axis without creating a global cataclysm of tidal waves and earthquakes; sending fire from heaven; flooding the earth; turning staffs into serpents; sending the 10 plagues; raising the dead; parting the red sea, walking on water; etc. According to the same mythology, God divinely inspired the bible authors to write that the earth is flat. Posted by: Emperor Norton II Jan 18 2004, 08:37 PM Yup. Not that anyone pays attention to that. Anyone who says God has spoken to them is instantly labeled a crack-pot and a heretic- if God WERE to speak to someone, geck'd be tied to a stake and lit up faster than you can say Barbecue. Posted by: Lokmer Jan 19 2004, 12:26 AM Being a fan of the Bible as myth (being a fan of mythic literature in general) I should point out that the Bible does not say it is divinely inspired (certain parts of it claim to be...), that is a theological abstraction about a collection of myths. One can continue to enjoy the stories and the ideas without believing they are propositionally true or doctrinally true or any of that - without believing that they come from a god. In the interests of fairness... -Lokmer Posted by: HeathenM0M Jan 19 2004, 05:47 AM QUOTE I should point out that the Bible does not say it is divinely inspired (certain parts of it claim to be...), that is a theological abstraction about a collection of myths. Lokmer, Ah, okay. All I remember is "all scripture is given by inspiration of god ..." but I don't recall if that was a song or an actual verse. Posted by: Doug2 Jan 19 2004, 05:53 AM Well, that depends on how you read the text, and what you consider "scripture" 2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is Godbreathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness 2 Peter 1:20 Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation. Posted by: HeathenM0M Jan 19 2004, 05:59 AM QUOTE Well, that depends on how you read the text, and what you consider "scripture" 2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is Godbreathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness Thanks, Doug. I was just going to look this up. Anyway, I guess I should've said that my denomination taught that the Bible was all divinely inspired. They also taught that the Bible was a literal account of history. Posted by: Lokmer Jan 19 2004, 06:31 AM Oh, mine taught the same thing, and it's pure bullshit. Just because some cronies in the NT (Paul, and whoever wrote timothy and Peter) thought they were talking to God don't mean they were - any more than anyone else in history. Anyway, I didn't mean to hijack the thread. I'm all for drubbing the Bible's supposed "god inspired" status, but as a fan of myth I hate to see it derided as a collection of myth. Carry on, carry on -Lokmer Posted by: Libertus Jan 19 2004, 12:13 PM Well, just another perspective. Coming from a pentecostal background, there are prophets running all over the place. My old church has books chock full of "Thus sayeth the Lord"s. I always thought that it was weird how prophecy can only sound real if it starts out that way. If you say, "Well God said", that wouldn't work, but "Thus sayeth the Lord" . . . <Hear the sound of singing angels>. They range from prophecies for the church to prophecies for individuals in the church. They are generally used the same as biblical prophecy for motivation, and occasionally someone goes back and tries to relate something that happens to a prophecy given in the church. Some of the examples seem compelling, but many things in retrospect can. They are usually quite vague. I actually "brought forth" a "word from the lord" once during a very emotional group prayer session. God wanted me to tell everyone to worship him. Very original, I know. My point is only that there are those out there that think god still talks to the world this way, and the only reason that the world doesn't see it is because we don't listen. Xpen Posted by: PriorWorrier Jan 19 2004, 05:32 PM G*d has said everything that he ever needed to say to us humans apparently, and it's all captured faithfully in the bible. Father G*d god said most of what he needed to say early on in the OT. Even then it was often his angels passing on his words indirectly. And even then often while the recipient was in a dream state. Son Jesus god said most of what he needed to say in the first few books of the NT. It's up to xtians to synthesize those few words and apply them endlessly to every situation in life. Many xtians claim that ghost Holy Spirit god continues to speak to them in their hearts. However those aren't words so much as feelings of joy and assurance and confirmation. The gods delivered all their words already, so we need to quit asking for new ones and just figure out what they were really trying to say. Posted by: chefranden Jan 19 2004, 05:57 PM QUOTE (Doug2 @ Jan 19 2004, 07:53 AM) Well, that depends on how you read the text, and what you consider "scripture" 2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is Godbreathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness 2 Peter 1:20 Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation. In both passages the greek is graphe which should be translated writing IMHO. I doubt if the writers knew that their works would be collected into a codex that would eventually be given the status of a magic book in the 14th century. Therefore the contents of said writing is not at all clear. If the "writing" included all the texts circulating among the churches at the time there is a great deal that has been left out of the bible. Posted by: SpaceFalcon2001 Jan 19 2004, 06:18 PM QUOTE (Reality Amplifier @ Jan 18 2004, 10:06 PM) Yet according to Christian mythology, God used to do really cool stuff to prove he was communicating to mankind (providing spectacular foundations for faith), by making the earth stop turning on its axis without creating a global cataclysm of tidal waves and earthquakes; sending fire from heaven; flooding the earth; turning staffs into serpents; sending the 10 plagues; raising the dead; parting the red sea, walking on water; etc. *Cough* Christian Mythology? Give a little credit where it's due. Brings to mind the words of Roger Kaputnick. "See? The Jews were smart, they wrote the bible which is the most read book in the world." "Yea, but they never made a penny in back royalties" Posted by: Doug2 Jan 19 2004, 08:07 PM QUOTE (chefranden @ Jan 19 2004, 05:57 PM) QUOTE (Doug2 @ Jan 19 2004, 07:53 AM) Well, that depends on how you read the text, and what you consider "scripture" 2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is Godbreathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness 2 Peter 1:20 Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation. In both passages the greek is graphe which should be translated writing IMHO. I doubt if the writers knew that their works would be collected into a codex that would eventually be given the status of a magic book in the 14th century. Therefore the contents of said writing is not at all clear. If the "writing" included all the texts circulating among the churches at the time there is a great deal that has been left out of the bible. QUOTE In both passages the greek is graphe which should be translated writing IMHO. I doubt if the writers knew that their works would be collected into a codex that would eventually be given the status of a magic book in the 14th century. Therefore the contents of said writing is not at all clear. If the "writing" included all the texts circulating among the churches at the time there is a great deal that has been left out of the bible. Chef, that bad habit of thinking is coming out in you again. Unfotunately, most christians can't see that the book is a collection of stories. Most of them seem to think it fell from the sky or was all written in the same book that was passed around by god so that he could use the author's pens. Posted by: Reality Amplifier Jan 19 2004, 08:45 PM QUOTE (SpaceFalcon2001 Posted on Jan 19 2004 @ 06:18 PM) *Cough* Christian Mythology? Give a little credit where it's due. Oops. I guess I stand corrected. Sorry. How about: “Christianity’s adopted belief in Judaic mythology about a Hebrew war God (with an inexplicable predilection for fire) who decided to kill his Son over a dispute about a fruit tree because he couldn’t come up with a better idea.”? I know...it needs a little wordsmithing to make it flow into the original paragraph, but my creativity well seems to have run dry with that effort. Posted by: SpaceFalcon2001 Jan 19 2004, 09:30 PM QUOTE (Reality Amplifier @ Jan 19 2004, 11:45 PM) How about: “Christianity’s adopted belief in Judaic mythology about a Hebrew war God (with an inexplicable predilection for fire) who decided to kill his Son over a dispute about a fruit tree because he couldn’t come up with a better idea.”? Change it to "Christianity's borrowed beliefs from Judaic mythology...who in addition decided..." and you're right on the mark. Posted by: Guest Jan 19 2004, 09:49 PM Got it. Your correction reminded me of my roommate from college who was (and still is) Jewish. He used to like to go around and tell Christians if they knew that "their God" was the son of "his God". His inflection always made it funny somehow. Posted by: Reality Amplifier Jan 19 2004, 09:51 PM Now if I can get my cookies set, I won't keep logging reply posts as a guest dammit. Powered by Invision Power Board (http://www.invisionboard.com) © Invision Power Services (http://www.invisionpower.com) |