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| Open Forums for ExChristian.Net > Debating with Christians > Mormons |
| Posted by: Asimov Mar 7 2005, 06:00 PM |
| How the fuck can Mormon even be popular??? The only thing it has going for it is that Joseph Smith actually existed. I asked a bunch of mormons about the plates he translated. Apparently ONLY Joseph translated the plates....no corroboration at all....dammmmnnn |
| Posted by: TruthWarrior Mar 7 2005, 06:02 PM |
| Maybe because its better then being Amish? |
| Posted by: michelle Mar 7 2005, 06:12 PM |
My Grandmother was a mormon. Now get this, she knew she was dying so she left this letter behind to all of her children. In the letter she mentions how she regrets her whole life and all the mistakes she made. She spent 30 years in the mormon church. Then she turns around and states that she knows the Mormon church is the true church. What the fuck? As far as I'm concerned the Mormon church is a cult. I don't see the Catholic church acting all cultish. I'm not trying to disrespect the dead,(I hardly knew my grandmother) but really her letter sounded like she threw her whole life away. What's sad is, she probably did.  |
| Posted by: Asimov Mar 7 2005, 06:20 PM |
| Christianity is a cult...an advanced cult. The Catholic church is about as cultish as you can get. |
| Posted by: ObbiQuiet Mar 7 2005, 06:25 PM |
| Have any of you taken a trip to Utah to experiance Mormonism first-hand? The multiple wives is one of the first things that gets you. My last name is Haight - my cousin used to be one of the disciples of the Mormon Church until he died recently. Whenever people learn I'm a Haight I momentarily get treated as royalty until they ask which Temple I go to. |
| Posted by: Asimov Mar 7 2005, 06:30 PM | ||
That's the FLDS, the Mormons of today don't regard them as real Mormons...at least that's what I'm told. |
| Posted by: ObbiQuiet Mar 7 2005, 06:32 PM | ||||
Yes, they're fundie mormons - but authorities have a blind eye toward it. There was just a 'revelation' that it was wrong when Utah had to drop its policies in order to become a state. |
| Posted by: Asimov Mar 7 2005, 06:35 PM | ||||||
That's what is happening here in BC, Canada as well. The government can't do anything about it, because they aren't legal marriages. Technically, it's only adultery, and that isn't illegal. |
| Posted by: Outsider Mar 7 2005, 09:43 PM |
| A good book to read about the FLDS is "Under the Banner of Heaven" by jon Krakauer. The history of the mormon church and that infamous "plural marriage" is a fascinating read. It is truly amazing what people can believe is the Truth. |
| Posted by: Mr. Neil Mar 7 2005, 09:53 PM |
| I gotta say, there's just no excuse to be a Mormon. The Book of Mormon reads like it was written by a fifth-grader trying to sound like a prophet. "And so it came to pass..." It's loaded with historical and geographical data that is just plain wrong. I mean, just downright stupid shit. Just in case the Christians on this board think I'm a little confrontational, I'm a total fucking snob when the Mormons come to the door. I am nothing short of condescending. I'm sure I've trumpetted the following historical fact a number of times, but one of ancestors was among the unruly mob that killed Joseph Smith and his brother. I'm all too happy to share that factoid with the door-to-door Mormons. They usually scurry away quickly. |
| Posted by: GreyGirl Mar 7 2005, 10:09 PM | ||
Visited? I live in downtown Salt Lake City! You're right, Mormons are fucking nuts. I was raised Mormon and figured out it was bullshit by the time I was 12. I'm pretty amazed any of Joseph Smith's "scribes" believed him, since they actually saw him "translating", with no plates in front of him, with his face in a hat full of rocks. |
| Posted by: FlybyStardancer Mar 7 2005, 10:14 PM |
| I honestly have no idea about the Mormon faith system, except some believe in polygamy (none of the Mormons I've met approve of it, though), and they have a thing were to be a full member of the church you have to go on a "Mission". Then again, I've only met about 4 Mormons, plus some of the family members of two of them. And they all went to the same church while living in the same area as me. My best friend's (now ex) boyfriend is one of those Mormons, and he's on his Mission right now, which is why he and my friend broke up. She knew she wouldn't be able to handle a long-distance relationship. However, none of the Mormons I've met have been overly-preachy... Maybe it's just 'cause I was raised in CA... (though that wouldn't explain at least half of them, 'cause they grew up elsewhere...) |
| Posted by: nivek Mar 7 2005, 10:25 PM |
| My surname is also one that has quite a connotation to lds-ism. My family lived in what became Hose Schnitt's holy city on So. Ill for years before.. When Schmitt and Ko rode into town, it was accepted that if you continued to live in the influence of the lds *family*, you would convert.. They did. Several of my ancestors did the march and have spread out over Utah and a lot of the West. As odd as my French historied name is, and uncommon, I *always* will meet someone who asks "Are you related to Bro So and So, or Sister Shiskabob's family?" Fuck if I know, nor do I care, even less want to them to know self and Family exist.. The Morg is no fucking joke.. They will make you part of the sucessful, three piece wearing, BMW (bigassed mormon wagon) driving, "don't we look better than the rest of the slobs?", intolerant, prideful, shitheads given a single stick of camel's nose under tent... Only way to avoid them is to make it painfully clear that any intrusion into your personal or business life will bring instant and very personal pain on the actors. Woodie, Grey Girl, I'm sorry you cats gotta live in the Land of the Living Morg. Aint no easy way to stay loose of the bastards. Save up, get out... I've fought them, the Morg, for over two decades, to simply leave me alone.. Not easy when they seem to hold positions that effect and affect major portions of your life.. It's an evile system, meant to snare people, entrap then into a cycle of dependency on the church for everything. Made my choice. "Ride Free, they can do the dying" n, Freeman |
| Posted by: Asimov Mar 7 2005, 10:29 PM | ||
 Are you fucking shitting me, Neil? |
| Posted by: Merlinfmct87 Mar 8 2005, 12:07 AM | ||
I remember Mark Twain saying it was Opium in text form. Merlin |
| Posted by: Mr. Neil Mar 8 2005, 04:23 AM |
| Asimov. I shit you not. |
| Posted by: Jayrok Mar 8 2005, 05:09 AM |
| If I'm not mistaken, the morons.. er, mormons believe that no one will spend much time in hell.. and all of them will at some point be their own God of some planet. IOW, God was once a man just like us and he is now God of his own universe or something silly like that. That concept would be fairly attractive to a potential convert.. |
| Posted by: doomguarder Mar 8 2005, 06:44 AM |
| About a month ago I spent a week in Utah. Most of it in Park City and a couple of nights in Salt Lake. The number of kids everywhere is just astounding. We stopped by a Costco, I thought I was in a daycare center. During that week I read "Under the Banner of Heaven". Good read, sad event. I can not understand how they can follow Joseph Smith. He was tried and convicted of fraud when he was unable to find treasure on a wealthy land owners property after taking payment for said task. The conviction and trial remain on record for any curious "saint" to go read. In addition, it was his own wife who tried to back a different candidate from Young to lead the church after he was killed. Two weeks could have made all the difference in the mormons. Had Young not taken the helm, the polygamy thing would never have been fully added to church doctrine. It is only through indoctrination and fear they hold many of their parishioners. The morons are one of the most ridiculous faiths I have ever had the displeasure of looking into.  |
| Posted by: Bruce Mar 8 2005, 06:51 AM | ||
This reminds me of a humorous story I heard once.
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| Posted by: doomguarder Mar 8 2005, 07:34 AM | ||||
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| Posted by: Reach Mar 8 2005, 07:54 AM | ||
Oh, that's news to me and that's absolutely priceless! I heartily concur; the Book of Mormon is the stupidest thing I ever read. |
| Posted by: ObbiQuiet Mar 8 2005, 10:57 AM |
| The mormons have always made me curious. Whenever I've spoken to them about their faith it was almost like it was taboo territory. They wouldn't act worried or intimidated, but they've never allowed me to question into what they believe. They've given me the basic deal of what Mormonism is, but to go any further into that has always lost discussion. They almost become uninterested and stop paying attention. I don't know if this is a normal human activity or a reaction built into mormon children. |
| Posted by: woodsmoke Mar 8 2005, 11:42 AM |
| Nivek said it best. I was raised in a Mormon family, have lived in the heart of the Morg Collective for all of my 19 years. About two and a half years ago, shortly after my 17 birthday, I came to the realization that it's all bunk. Looking back on all the rediculous stories and absurd myths I was brought up with now I'm almost shocked at how I could have possibly believed such garbage. Almost. Unfortunately, the Mormon church excels at feeding off the natural goodness and gullibility of most people. Much as it wounds my pride to say it, I am not well-skilled in critical thinking and skepticism, and I often have to check myself to prevent believing something that is obviously meant as a joke or story--especially when it's coming from a friend. I feel that I should have no need to be so wary of potential misinformation; if I did that person would not be considered my friend. I have few close friends, and those I do have only became such through long years of friendship after which I feel they've earned my trust; so it hurts when someone takes advantage of that trust for a laugh at my expense. Taking into account that I simply have a reserved personality around people I don't know, that's part of the reason I dislike social situations so much. "Gullibility" to people is often like fear to dogs, it's like they can smell it on you, and as soon as they've caught the trail they'll mercilessly track it down and jump on its source without the slightest consideration to how that person may feel. That's probably also why the mere notion of ever again dabbing in any of the big three western monotheisms is so unappealing to me. YHVH, Elohiym, Allah, Jesus--it doesn't matter what you call him, he and his crowd exploited my trust for 17 years, and I'm not about to let them get away with it again. |
| Posted by: BaronFel Mar 8 2005, 04:01 PM |
| Another thing to bring up with door knockers is why haven't any of Joseph Smith's prophecy's come true yet? If this guy was authentic then shouldn't they have happened as he said, they make some bold claims that should have already come to pass and yet somehow they always steer the topic away from that one as well. |
| Posted by: ObbiQuiet Mar 8 2005, 04:39 PM | ||
What claims did he make? I'm not familiar with them. I stole a Book of Mormon when I went to Utah, but I haven't actually tried reading it. |
| Posted by: GreyGirl Mar 8 2005, 04:50 PM | ||
There's a lot of stuff that they're not allowed to talk about. Everything that happens in the temple, for example. It's sacred, not secret, though Also, it's been my experience that as a whole, Mormons are some of the least knowledgable people in the world about their own faith. They're not encouraged to learn any of the real history of their religion, only the sanitized, church-approved version. You can lose your temple recommend if you even talk to someone who's an "apostate", and they're strongly encouraged to not even look at any "anti-mormon" literature (anti-mormon being anything that mentions the LDS church with anything less than a glowing recommendation). I've actually had arguments with Mormons who insist I'm making up the fact that Joseph Smith was a polygamist. People who have been raised LDS their entire lives have never heard of such a thing. They avoid talking about their religion with non-believers because they *can't*. Unless they've been on a mission and learned all the pre-packaged answers to give people, they have no idea how to discuss it. |
| Posted by: woodsmoke Mar 8 2005, 10:25 PM | ||
Only an ex-Mormon can know how true these words really are. |
| Posted by: <>< Mar 9 2005, 06:13 AM | ||
You stole a book of Mormon? Should we be impressed? Don't you know they give them away for free. -------------- Also it should be noted that Salt lake City is over 50% Catholic. The Mormon church is run more like a big business these days than a religion. They have big corporate office buildings in down town SLC and are very rich from feeding of the Mormon sheeple. |
| Posted by: quicksand Mar 9 2005, 06:21 AM | ||||
Are you Catholic Fish? Just curious, cause the Catholics ran a pretty good racket up until the Reformation if I remember correctly. Now its the reformers that run a pretty good racket. Heck, in Milwaukee I've got 3 24/7 Religious Television stations selling incentives to keep the lights on. |
| Posted by: Mr. Neil Mar 9 2005, 06:51 AM | ||||
A few decades ago, Mad Magazine published a series of books written and illustrated by Dave Berg. In one of them, "Dave Berg Looks At Modern Thinking", there's a story about a kid who swipes a bunch of gum to be in a gang but later realizes that the packs he "stole" were free samples.
Now why does that sound so familiar? Hmmm... |
| Posted by: Merlinfmct87 Mar 9 2005, 09:10 AM | ||||
Fishy's back! And he changed his religion! Let's see if he actually sticks around this time. Merlin |
| Posted by: ObbiQuiet Mar 9 2005, 11:00 AM | ||||||
A little bit offensive, don't you think? I said I "stole a book of Mormon when I went to Utah" to explain, briefly, how I came about owning one. |
| Posted by: kemeticpoet Mar 9 2005, 12:00 PM |
| Fish? Wasn't he in that sitcom back in the 70's? Then he got his own spinoff, right? |
| Posted by: LloydDobler Mar 9 2005, 12:01 PM |
| I was impressed. I don't have the balls to go up against the mormons. WHAT IF THEY'RE RIGHT?!?! |
| Posted by: skankboy Mar 9 2005, 12:12 PM | ||
Then I am definitely wearing the wrong underwear...  |
| Posted by: ObbiQuiet Mar 9 2005, 12:57 PM | ||||
My theory - it can't be wrong if it doesn't exist. |
| Posted by: GreyGirl Mar 9 2005, 05:14 PM | ||
Yeah, probably. SLC has an extremely large population of Mexican immigrants, and most of them are Catholic. SLC proper is actually not a very large city, and contains a lot of businesses and not that many residences. Nearly all of the non-mormons cluster into SLC, and the Mormons move to the suburbs, which are nearly all big enough to have become towns with their own names. The rest of the state more than makes up for the Catholics who live downtown. |
| Posted by: Mad_Gerbil Mar 9 2005, 06:29 PM |
| Lloyd, I have to admit your avatar is very funny. Wish I would of thought of it. |
| Posted by: nivek Mar 9 2005, 08:30 PM |
| Dusting off some of my old lds books.. Think what Brigham had to say was in Doctrine & Covenants... Trying to remember, back in 1978 or so the church elders had a sudden revelation from upon high that made hash of some of their escatology.. Brigham had said that the lds priesthood would be given first to whitemen, then at *the end of times* (or so) then to the inferior races and colors.. They had built this hage assed temple in Brazil, using tons of local money to assemble this mummificent building.. Then the local lds, *folks of color* found they couldn't be given the lds priesthood due to skin color.. Talking hundreds of thousands of people who were n ot lds "racially pure". Suddenly in SLC there was a change of scripture, not too sure what, but then *blacks* were permitted to hold offices and do the majik mumbo jumbo of lds-ism... Rather than cause thinking folks to say "what the fuck-over, rover?", and question how the "profits" (intentional) could have been WRONG, the men in the church just took the new revelation 'cause "the thinking's been done for them".... lds-ism is as racist an organization in its upper ranks as any hood and robe association.. Lots and lots of secrets lurk under the veneer of the perfect family worship houses... n, Freeman |
| Posted by: Asimov Mar 9 2005, 10:10 PM | ||
Yes....kinda like all those Christian prophecies that came true...... |
| Posted by: PaulM Mar 9 2005, 10:36 PM | ||
A difficulty is that Herbert Hoover regarded mormons as "reliable", and so the FBI is full of 'em.  |
| Posted by: Mr. Neil Mar 10 2005, 01:50 AM | ||||
I was gonna point that out, but then I thought it would be more sporting to give someone else a chance to make the burn. Ex-C Tip of the Day: Ex-C's don't believe in prophecies of any kind. Don't point out inadequacies in someone else's religion that also exist in your own. |
| Posted by: <>< Mar 10 2005, 06:50 AM | ||||||
No, I'm not Catholic. I am an atheist. The symbol I choose as my handle is just tongue in cheek. |
| Posted by: <>< Mar 10 2005, 06:52 AM | ||||||||
Yeah, whatever you gotta tell yourself. Please don't take that seriously, I'm just joking now. No offense intended. I was just feeling a bit sassy yesterday. Ooh, and for all those unsure, I am a girl. |
| Posted by: quicksand Mar 10 2005, 06:53 AM | ||||||||
I have a proclivity of under-assuming things Fish. Sorry, next time I will just assume something about you and hold it as the truth despite whatever the facts are. Deal? Sorry, I can be a bit of cranky crabby sonofdrzyborg sometimes. I see that <>< and my mind goes into design mode and that's all i see. I need help.  |
| Posted by: kemeticpoet Mar 10 2005, 08:00 AM | ||
No! Not Blacks! That is a sign of coming apocalypse indeed!  |