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Posted by: Rameus Feb 12 2005, 11:07 AM
Here is another entertaining email from my weekly bucket of Christian stupidity that Clergicide has persuaded me to share with the community. How anyone could think that evangelizing Rameus is going to be a productive use of their time is beyond my understanding. But they try, good Christ do they try. I can't imagine what sort of inane ramblings I am going to receive when my education is finished and my book is finally published. At that point, the messages will probably come in the form of bullets singing around me.

Rameus

QUOTE
-----Original Message-----
From: swsuni_sjohnson@hotmail.com
Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 12:45 PM
To: rameus@isp.com
Subject: Anthropology

Mr. Rameus -

>I have seen you at exchristian.com forum and I want to help you. I am a
>Pentecostal who was Born Again in the Holy Spirit at the age of 17. I --->
know <--- that God is real and He works wonders in my life every day. There
is no way I can deny Him... the Holy Spirit resides in me, and works His
wonders on me. You seem to be under the impression that the Truth of Jesus
Christ is a lie, and further that the Truth of Jesus Christ doesn't help our
society. You are wrong. As there has been a decline in Church attendence,
less men taking responsibilty, less women remaining under the authority of
their husbands and entering the work place, God being taken out of schools,
and homosexual practises being accepted there has been a rise in murder,
violence, drugs, sexual immorality, etc... Now you want turn more from
Christ! Are you mad? There is a hell, and unless you do some thinking, you
will be going there. I will pray for you.

Stacey

_________________________________________________________________
Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/


QUOTE
-----Original Message-----
From: Rameus
Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 1:45 PM
To: 'Stacey Johnson'
Subject: RE: Anthropology


>I have seen you at exchristian.com forum and I want to help you. I am a
>Pentecostal who was Born Again in the Holy Spirit at the age of 17.

It occurs to me Miss Johnson that most 17 year old children are not emotionally or intellectually mature enough to understand the complex world we live in; to say nothing about being "born again in the Holy Spirit".  If we were to perform an anthropological experiment, and raise 12 children in isolated environments where they were conditioned to believe that Humpty Dumpty was God, and that he fell off the wall to save our eternal souls from sin, I would venture to guess that no less than 11 of the 12 children would believe in their fable every bit as much as you believe in yours.

>I ---> know <--- that God is real and He works wonders in my life every >day. There is no way I can deny Him... the Holy Spirit resides in me, and works His wonders on me.

What supernatural miracles does God work in your life daily?  Would you be willing to subject yourself to scientific evaluation of these miracles?  If so I will contact the University and attempt to procure funding for an exhaustive observation and analysis study so we can determine if you are deranged, delusional, mentally ill, or a genuine conduit of God's miraculous will.  The psychology department is always looking for fresh lunatics to poke and prod.  We also have a primate behavioralist who may be interested in talking to you as well.

>You seem to be under the impression that the Truth of Jesus
>Christ is a lie,

You seem to be under the impression that the fable of Jesus Christ is a historical record.  Do you confuse Gandalf the Grey, Genji the Shining Prince, and Caramon Majere as historical figures also?

>and further that the Truth of Jesus Christ doesn't help our
>society. You are wrong. As there has been a decline in Church attendence,
>less men taking responsibilty, less women remaining under the authority of
>their husbands and entering the work place, God being taken out of schools,
>and homosexual practises being accepted there has been a rise in murder,
>violence, drugs, sexual immorality, etc... Now you want turn more from
>Christ! Are you mad?

The society in the world that arguably has the most social order, the most education, and the least crime, China, is entirely atheistic and certainly doesn't embrace Christianity in any form.  A common slang term for Christians in China is "lunatics".  Have you ever visited a Muslim country Stacey?  They have almost no crime, no murder, no drug abuse, no alcohol abuse, and no "sexual immorality" as you would define it.  If Christianity is the "way, the truth, and the life" then why is it that Islamic societies have relatively few of the social disorders that many traditional Western Christian based societies are afflicted with?

Nietzsche made an interesting observation:  "Alcohol and Christianity, two great European narcotics." 

Critical Thinking Question:  Did Nietzsche make a fair criticism of Western culture?  Why or why not?

>There is a hell, and unless you do some thinking, you
>will be going there.

Many of my loved ones are in Hell, why wouldn't I want to see them again?  Most of the great thinkers in human history are in Hell, why wouldn't I want to meet them?  Why would God produce all of these wonderful minds, only to cast them into a pit of eternal flame and torment when their journey was over?  Don't just mindlessly accept the Hell doctrine Miss Johnson, exercise your God given rational facilities and think it over for yourself.  Does Hell seem like the creation of a just, kind, and loving God?  Would you punish and torment your children eternally if they strayed from you even just a little bit?

Hell is a prison that some human beings create for themselves in life.  None of us can know what awaits us in death.  Why are some human beings so intent on convincing the rest of us that their eternal fable prisons are real?  What is this morbid construct all about?  Fear.  Fear leads to control, and control leads to power.  You have elected to hand your personal empowerment to others, I have not.  That is the difference between us Miss Johnson.

I do hope you will wake up from your self induced sleep one day Miss, so that you may enjoy the gift of life, and make a contribution to our collective future.  I believe you have potential, whether or not you exercise it someday is entirely your decision.

Kindly yours,

Rameus A.

Posted by: Reach Feb 12 2005, 11:28 AM
QUOTE (Rameus @ Feb 12 2005, 11:07 AM)
How anyone could think that evangelizing Rameus is going to be a productive use of their time is beyond my understanding.  But they try, good Christ do they try.

They probably already tried praying for you with no result.

James 5:16, edited: The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth... nothing. FrogsToadBigGrin.gif

Posted by: Diogenes Feb 12 2005, 11:48 AM
Let me see if I have this right: she is a tongue-speaker (Pentecostal), who hallucinates on a daily basis ("He works wonders in my life every day"), is possessed ("the Holy Spirit resides in me"), believes in a fiery underworld with demons carrying pitchforks (There is a hell), and talks to make-believe beings in the sky ("I will pray for you"), and she wonders about your mental stability ("Are you mad?"). KatieHmm.gif

Posted by: Clergicide Feb 12 2005, 11:48 AM
QUOTE
less women remaining under the authority of
their husbands and entering the work place


I could have sworn I heard Christians bitching about Muslims for holding that belief. eek.gif

I wonder how she'll feel about her beliefs when her prayers to save your soul go unanswered. It probably won't be a rational conclusion, it'll probably be some self-delusion about the devil having too firm a grip on you. I'm not even convinced she will pray for you, that just seems to be an empty phrase that Christians use to heap guilt, like saying "I'm concerned about your soul, why aren't you?".

Posted by: TexasFreethinker Feb 12 2005, 11:50 AM
QUOTE (Rameus @ Feb 12 2005, 02:07 PM)
QUOTE
-----Original Message-----
From: swsuni_sjohnson@hotmail.com
Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 12:45 PM
To: rameus@isp.com
Subject: Anthropology

... As there has been a decline in Church attendence,
less men taking responsibilty, less women remaining under the authority of
their husbands and entering the work place, God being taken out of schools,
and homosexual practises being accepted there has been a rise in murder,
violence, drugs, sexual immorality, etc...


She also shows an misunderstanding of what crime statistics show.

That fact is that the violent crime rate has been decreasing for some time now (in the midst of all the godlessness she listed). The national murder rate is approximately the same as it was in 1962/3 when forced school prayer was made illegal.

It's also telling that states which have the lowest murder rates are those in the "godless" Northeast - places like Vermont with its Gay Civil Unions and Massachusetts with gay marriage. Hotbeds of fundamentalist christianity in the South have among the highest murder rates, and have had for years.

Futhermore, rises in the overall violent crime rate since 1960 (which has been decreasing again since the mid 1990s) has more to do with the prohibition / war on drugs than with non-submissive women or rampant homosexuality.

Posted by: Madame M Feb 12 2005, 11:59 AM
QUOTE
You seem to be under the impression that the fable of Jesus Christ is a historical record.  Do you confuse Gandalf the Grey,


I was just talking to Gandalf today. Oh wait, that was just Merlin on the Ex-C forum. Damn, I thought I was onto something.

QUOTE
How anyone could think that evangelizing Rameus is going to be a productive use of their time is beyond my understanding.


If they convert you, they you will cease fighting against Christianity. They fancy you a pretty big jewel for their heavenly crown, I imagine.

QUOTE
it'll probably be some self-delusion about the devil having too firm a grip on you.


I don't even want to know what the devil is gripping. ROFLOL!

Posted by: fortunehooks Feb 12 2005, 03:11 PM
QUOTE (Reach @ Feb 12 2005, 02:28 PM)
QUOTE (Rameus @ Feb 12 2005, 11:07 AM)
How anyone could think that evangelizing Rameus is going to be a productive use of their time is beyond my understanding.  But they try, good Christ do they try.

They probably already tried praying for you with no result.

James 5:16, edited: The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth... nothing. FrogsToadBigGrin.gif

you know, i was thinking the same thing. oh yes of course they prayed for rameus, but at this moment and many more to no avail.

i don't know why xtians evangalize,but when they start i just point to something in history that they have limited knowledge of. i tell of the arian controversy, that ended with the culmination of jesus being merged with god as one in the same.

i go alot more in detail, but you very intelligent people on this board already knew that.

by all means rameus, destroy jp holding,and email it to bush.



Posted by: Rameus Feb 12 2005, 11:40 PM
I don't know why I bother taking the time to reply to these people when I know they are just going to spit back "blah blah blah poopie pants Jesus is Lord." Either I'm masochistic, or I just care about the future of the world far too much.

Enjoy the madness:

QUOTE
-----Original Message-----
From: Stacey Johnson [mailto:swsuni_sjohnson@hotmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 6:27 PM
To: rameus@isp.com
Subject: RE: Anthropology

Thank you for responding Mr. "A.", I wasn't expecting you to.

QUOTE
"It occurs to me Miss Johnson that most 17 year old children are not
emotionally or intellectually mature enough to understand the complex world
we live in; to say nothing about being "born again in the Holy Spirit".  If
we were to perform an anthropological experiment, and raise 12 children in
isolated environments where they were conditioned to believe that Humpty
Dumpty was God, and that he fell off the wall to save our eternal souls from
sin, I would venture to guess that no less than 11 of the 12 children would
believe in their fable every bit as much as you believe in yours."


I suppose you make a good point, but I find it hard to accept that the Holy
Spirit's working in my life is anything but just that. I remember when I was
15 years old, still a Baptist , and I had just suffered a great loss. I
began to doubt the Truth of Jesus Christ, but that night when I got down on
my knees the most amazing thing happened. I was taken over and I knew
instinctively that He come entered my heart. About 6 month later I joined an
Assembles of God church... it was shocking at first, but I felt right at
home there. I cannot deny that which I know to be true. That would tear me
appart.

QUOTE
"What supernatural miracles does God work in your life daily?  Would you be
willing to subject yourself to scientific evaluation of these miracles?  If
so I will contact the University and attempt to procure funding for an
exhaustive observation and analysis study so we can determine if you are
deranged, delusional, mentally ill, or a genuine conduit of God's miraculous
will.  The psychology department is always looking for fresh lunatics to
poke and prod.  We also have a primate behavioralist who may be interested
in talking to you as well."


Often both in church and at home in prayer I have received the gift of
tongues, I have witnessed healings, and have had my veruca healed. You can
just do a little google search and see hundreds of cases of people being
healed. Without Jesus and the Holy Spirit guiding me I'd be nothing.

QUOTE
"You seem to be under the impression that the fable of Jesus Christ is a
historical record.  Do you confuse Gandalf the Grey, Genji the Shining
Prince, and Caramon Majere as historical figures also?"


Jesus Christ was a historical figure. We have all sorts of Roman scriptures
such as Josephus, as well as the Bible.

QUOTE
"The society in the world that arguably has the most social order, the most
education, and the least crime, China, is entirely atheistic and certainly
doesn't embrace Christianity in any form.  A common slang term for
Christians in China is "lunatics".  Have you ever visited a Muslim country
Stacey?  They have almost no crime, no murder, no drug abuse, no alcohol
abuse, and no "sexual immorality" as you would define it.  If Christianity
is the "way, the truth, and the life" then why is it that Islamic societies
have relatively few of the social disorders that many traditional Western
Christian based societies are afflicted with?

Nietzsche made an interesting observation:  "Alcohol and Christianity, two
great European narcotics."

Critical Thinking Question:  Did Nietzsche make a fair criticism of Western
culture?  Why or why not?"


China is a wonderful example of the destructiveness of atheism. They have no
free speech, and treat their women like scives and run over kids with tanks.
GOD BLESS AMERICA! And I have no idea who
Nietzsche is, but I agree with him that alcohol is a sin.

QUOTE
"Many of my loved ones are in Hell, why wouldn't I want to see them again?
Most of the great thinkers in human history are in Hell, why wouldn't I want
to meet them?"


Nobody knows who is in Hell except God.

QUOTE
"Why would God produce all of these wonderful minds, only to
cast them into a pit of eternal flame and torment when their journey was
over?  Don't just mindlessly accept the Hell doctrine Miss Johnson, exercise
your God given rational facilities and think it over for yourself.  Does
Hell seem like the creation of a just, kind, and loving God?  Would you
punish and torment your children eternally if they strayed from you even
just a little bit?"


God can do what He wants. He created us, He lets you an atheist be happy
(though not properly happy obviously because you don't have Jesus), that is
grace! He gave His only son to die for our sins! Could you do that?

QUOTE
"Hell is a prison that some human beings create for themselves in life. 
None
of us can know what awaits us in death.  Why are some human beings so intent
on convincing the rest of us that their eternal fable prisons are real?
What is this morbid construct all about?  Fear.  Fear leads to control, and
control leads to power.  You have elected to hand your personal empowerment
to others, I have not.  That is the difference between us Miss Johnson."


Fear is OK. I do fear God. I also love Him, and I know He loves me too.

QUOTE
"I do hope you will wake up from your self induced sleep one day Miss, so
that you may enjoy the gift of life, and make a contribution to our
collective future.  I believe you have potential, whether or not you
exercise it someday is entirely your decision."


I hope one day you will become less hateful and see the light. I will pray
for you again.

Stacey


QUOTE
-----Original Message-----
From: Rameus [mailto:rameus@isp.com]
Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2005 2:31 AM
To: 'Stacey Johnson'
Subject: RE: Anthropology

QUOTE
>Thank you for responding Mr. "A.", I wasn't expecting you to.


As you shouldn't have, corresponding with fundamentalists is a usually waste of my valuable time. I do it because there may be some glimmer of hope, however slight, that someday you will wake up from your fundamentalist coma and view the real world for the first time.

QUOTE
>I suppose you make a good point, but I find it hard to accept that the Holy
>Spirit's working in my life is anything but just that. I remember when I was 15 >years old, still a Baptist , and I had just suffered a great loss. I
>began to doubt the Truth of Jesus Christ, but that night when I got down on
>my knees the most amazing thing happened. I was taken over and I knew
>instinctively that He come entered my heart. About 6 month later I joined  an Assembles of God church... it was shocking at first, but I felt right at home there. I cannot deny that which I know to be true. That would tear me appart.


I understand the emotional fulfillment that Christianity provides. However, what you don't seem to understand is that many people of various faiths feel this "personal involvement fantasy" in regards to their deity. Many of the Muslims I know tell me that they feel Allah touching their hearts and working through them daily. How is their feeling any different from yours? If both groups (Christians and Muslims) are feeling it, then who is to say it is from Jesus? It could be a feeling you are generating yourself. Or perhaps it is God, but not Jesus, YHWH, or Allah. There are a number of possible explanations for the feelings that you and so many other people (from a wide cross section of faiths) seem to have. The magical powers of a fictional character named Jesus Christ is only one of a number of possible explanations.

QUOTE
>Often both in church and at home in prayer I have received the gift of
>tongues,


Anyone can blather like a degenerate primate Stacey. Heck my pug does it daily, that doesn't mean Christ has leapt into her little frame and is driving her around the living room like a German tank. Receiving the "gift of tongues" might be indicative of a number of things (mental illness comes to mind), however I suspect the one thing it does not imply is an act of God. If God proves his existence to us through the random gibberish of his faithful cultists, then I'd almost be afraid to enter the pearly gates and find out just what sort of raving orangutan is running the show up there.

QUOTE
>I have witnessed healings,


Did you witness anyone grow back an arm, or a leg? Did you see a gunshot victim's wound close up? Or were they the type of healings where some old man walks in, proclaims that he is blind, gets slapped with a rug, and then screams "Praise be to Jeeeesus I can see"? Religious institutions have been perfecting this dog and pony show for thousands of years Miss Johnson; only the depraved, the deranged, the ignorant, or the naïve fall prey to this sort of silliness. But you want to believe in it don't you Miss Johnson? If you want to believe it, then how can you trust yourself to be an unbiased observer / judge? I can pick all of my stock trades by using Tarot cards. I can convince myself that every time I make money, it's because of the Tarot cards. I can also convince myself that every time I lose money it's because I somehow didn't shuffle the deck right, or read the cards properly. Confirmation bias can be a powerful force in a person's life Miss Johnson.

I want you to ask yourself honestly, are you guilty of confirmation bias?

Confirmation Bias: This refers to a form of selective thinking that focuses on evidence that supports what believers already believe while ignoring evidence that refutes their beliefs. Confirmation bias plays a stronger role when people base their beliefs upon faith, tradition and prejudice. For example, if someone believes in the power of prayer, the believer will notice the few "answered" prayers while ignoring the majority of unanswered prayers (which would indicate that prayer has no more value than random chance at worst or a placebo effect, when applied to health effects, at best).

QUOTE
>and have had my veruca healed.


You had a wart healed therefore Jesus Christ existed and is the living son of God? A trip to my Hindu physician could do that Miss Johnson. Should I start worshipping the man as the incarnate son of Vishnu?

QUOTE
>You can just do a little google search and see hundreds of cases of people >being healed.


You can also do a google search and see hundreds of pages claiming that there are Martians living in the Amazon rainforest. In the Qur'an a man claimed that he doubted the existence of Allah, and then Allah made a mountain appear before him. The man fell on his knees and worshipped Allah for the rest of his days, or at least so the story goes. Just because something is written, does not mean it happened. You would do well to learn that or you are going to be taken advantage of your entire life.

QUOTE
>Without Jesus and the Holy Spirit guiding me I'd be nothing.


Not true. You would be a Homo sapien and a member of a global civilization. There is strength in you that you have yet to discover, it resides in all of us. It took me reaching a dangerous low in my life before I discovered my strength, and I have never put it away since. God will either exist or not exist without our belief Miss Johnson. Live your life, love, learn, and make a contribution. Encourage others to do the same. We will all find out the mystery of death in the end. Anyone (or any book) that claims to hold these secrets for you, is simply lying.

QUOTE
>Jesus Christ was a historical figure. We have all sorts of Roman scriptures
>such as Josephus, as well as the Bible.


I am debating a rather notorious Christian apologist named J.P. Hominid on this very topic. I would suggest that you follow the debate if you are interested. I am hoping to have my essay submitted by the end of the month, but we’ll see how my workload goes. You may find that there is a lot more to that issue than you were aware of. Unless of course, you are one of those people who doesn't want to find out about anything that might call into question their beliefs?

http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46888

QUOTE
>China is a wonderful example of the destructiveness of atheism.


Have you been to China? Do you know anyone who has lived in China? Have you studied much Chinese history? I ask because your knowledge of that great, ancient civilization seems to be terribly inaccurate. What I said of China applies throughout much of their history. Like all nations, they have gone through periods that weren't so wonderful. The Mau era is one example of this. However China today is advanced, progressive, well educated, and very well ordered. There is an anti-Chinese sentiment in some sections of America in part because we are afraid that they are going to surpass us. News flash, they are within a few years of screaming right by us. Good for them, it's time to show the world what a nation of rational, responsible atheists can do. In 15 years they will be colonizing the moon, while Americans are still arguing over whether or not gay marriage is going to bring YHWH's wraith down upon us.

QUOTE
>(they) treat their women like scives


I find it entertaining that you would make this comment. In your initial email to me you indicated that one of the problems in America is that women are not accepting the headship of their husbands. Which way do you want it Miss Johnson, empowerment or oppression? Women in China become professors and doctors, just like they do in America. And if you still think women in China are oppressed, wait until you see America in twenty years if the evangelical Christians get their way. In Egypt, women are forced to cover their entire bodies and faces, and many of them have their vagina's surgically sewn shut (until marriage) at birth. Would you like to live in a society like that Miss Johnson?

QUOTE
>and run over kids with tanks.


And we send our children to high school with guns and bags of cocaine. It is easy to pick out the worst bits in a nations history in order to make them look evil. America nearly wiped out the American Indians, purposely and systematically. Should we turn your sword around and declare that "America is a wonderful example of the destructiveness of Christianity"? The scimitar cuts both ways my dear Miss Johnson. Methinks someone has wound you up like a top in regards to the China issue, and you are just spinning back what you have been programmed to vomit out. Go to your library and get a few books on Chinese history. I think you'll find they have a remarkable culture; one that differs markedly from the one you have been conditioned to believe. Some good books to start with:

"A Brief History of Chinese and Japanese Civilizations" by Schirokauer
"Mountain of Fame" by Wills
"The Analects" by Confucius

Dare to question what you are being told. Empower yourself by educating yourself. Otherwise you will always be someone else's slave, and sadly you probably won't even know it. So many other religious slaves don’t.

QUOTE
>Nobody knows who is in Hell except God.


My mother was a good person, but she was not a Christian. In fact she once told me as a child that the Bible was written by a bunch of greedy men who wanted power. Is she in your mythical heaven? I agree with her, and I will never be a Christian. Will I be going to your special cloudy place in the sky?

Before my mother died, she told me not to be sad for her because she got to go on and experience the "Great Adventure" first. She viewed death as the great unknown, the final door to all human mystery. We all die Miss Johnson, it is a natural condition of life. What good does it do to fear death? As my mother said death truly is the great adventure, and despite what you think there is not a human being alive today (or in any period of the past) who can know with certainty exactly what happens to us when we die. Anyone who tells you differently is fooling themself, and you if you let them.

QUOTE
>God can do what He wants. He created us,


True but would you consider God to be good if he decided to come down and rape someone you love? Would he be good if he inspired all of these different religions because he enjoys conflict, and he wants to watch us butcher each other over theological disputes? The god of the Old Testament is a sick, twisted bastard. I would not worship him even if he were real. Thankfully he is a construct of sun baked, half-crazed, plagiarizing sheepherders writing in caves 2,500 years ago. If you haven’t read the OT in a while, go back and read it all the way through. At one point God tells the Israelites that if they don’t obey him and keep all of his statutes, that he will make them eat their own children. So if a guy is feeling like some good pork on a Friday afternoon, and he decides “what the Hell I’m gonna chew me some of that”, then god punishes him by making him cannibalize his own son? Or what is a man breaks one of god’s commandments by shaving the sides of his bear, god is going to make him pick his teeth with his son’s femur? It’s a collection of raving insanity Miss. Johnson. One day (if you evolve past all this silliness) you will look back and laugh at the absurdity of these fables. The world is a far more fulfilling place when you can wake up in the morning, look yourself in the mirror, and not have to believe that god stuck a man in a whale’s belly for three days.

Critical Thinking Question: The god depicted in the Old Testament is vengeful, hateful, angry, and quite possibly insane. Jesus is depicted as kind and loving. Ask yourself, if the two are part of a Trinity, and are of the same being, exactly how manic depressive is that big godhead in the sky. I'm thinking that the creator of the Universe probably wouldn't be suffering from bipolar disorder.

QUOTE
>He lets you an atheist be happy
>(though not properly happy obviously because you don't have Jesus), that is
>grace!


I wake up every day, take a deep breath, and thoroughly enjoy my life. Jesus plays absolutely no part in it. You ought to try it one day my dear, there is nothing sweeter than the mental freedom that comes with shedding yourself of ancient superstitions and the emotional baggage thereof.

QUOTE
>He gave His only son to die for our sins! Could you do that?


I would have preferred that he endow his followers with fully functional brains. Treating them would be so much easier…

QUOTE
>I hope one day you will become less hateful and see the light.


I do not hate Miss Johnson. I am merely concerned for the future of this world and the human species. We are such a rare, beautiful gift to this Universe. It would be a shame if we wiped ourselves out over apocalyptic cults, books, and invisible men in the sky.

QUOTE
>I will pray for you again.


I'll tell you what, I promise that I will go to an evangelical church and let them pray over me next Sunday (you have my word) if you will promise to purchase and read a book that I name. Do we have a deal?

Kindly yours,

Rameus A.


Posted by: Asimov Feb 13 2005, 12:50 AM
AAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH......

*more maniacal laughter*

lmao_99.gif lmao_99.gif lmao_99.gif lmao_99.gif lmao_99.gif lmao_99.gif lmao_99.gif lmao_99.gif lmao_99.gif

Oh man....oh man....wooo

what a funny.

Posted by: MrSpooky Feb 13 2005, 01:16 AM
Glad you have respect for my culture, Rameus. Sadly, I've only taken one university course on Ancient Chinese history, myself. GONZ9729CustomImage1539775.gif

Posted by: SilentLoner Feb 13 2005, 06:09 AM
lmao_99.gif
great responses Rameus!

Posted by: Rameus Feb 13 2005, 08:47 AM
Perhaps I'm not as evil as they are expecting, which in the end may turn out to be more faith shaking then anything I could ever say to them. What, this evil atheist who is leading people astray isn't evil? It can't be!

QUOTE
-----Original Message-----
From: Stacey Johnson [mailto:swsuni_sjohnson@hotmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2005 7:03 AM
To: rameus@isp.com
Subject: RE: Anthropology

I will buy the books regardless of whether you go to an evangelical church.

Take care,

Stacey


QUOTE
-----Original Message-----
From: Rameus [mailto:rameus@isp.com]
Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2005 11:33 AM
To: 'Stacey Johnson'
Subject: RE: Anthropology

There is a man named Robert Price.  He used to be an evangelical preacher, and he taught classes at a Christian college.  He has a Ph.D. in theology, and another Ph.D. in New Testament studies.  The more the man learned about how Christianity was formed, and how the bible was written, the more he realized that it was just another religion based on myths like all the other religions.  Now Dr. Price considers himself an agnostic, which means he believes in God but he doesn't believe that God inspired any Holy books, or has come down to Earth at any time.

I would like you to read his book "The Incredible Shrinking Son of Man: How Reliable Is the Gospel Tradition?"  It costs $17 on Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1591021219/qid=1108312316/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/103-5684128-5360659?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

If you are brave enough to question what you have been raised to believe, this is a good place to start.  I wish you the best of luck in life Stacey.

Rameus A.

Posted by: MrSpooky Feb 13 2005, 10:53 AM
Ooooh, Prometheus Books. I love their work.

Posted by: ficino Feb 13 2005, 11:13 AM
Rameus, you da man! Can you tell us more about the worship of Humpty Dumpty? Can we register as clergy in this religion and get big tax breaks?

I admire you for undertaking your patient correspondence with Stacey. Maybe she'll learn something. Do you already teach as part of your graduate program? I can imagine your students saying things like, Prof. "Rameus" can be pretty sharp-tongued sometimes, but he really cares about his students, and he's helped us discover so much about the world and ourselves. Or something like that.


Posted by: Valgeir Feb 13 2005, 03:43 PM
Rameus-

Good job through and through, man. Maybe I'll start directing some of my backed up fundy traffic your way.

Posted by: Josalo Feb 13 2005, 07:39 PM
One thing I'd like to point out about the email sent to you Rameus is that violent crimes dropped dramatically in the 1990's.

QUOTE
>and further that the Truth of Jesus Christ doesn't help our
>society. You are wrong. As there has been a decline in Church attendence,
>less men taking responsibilty, less women remaining under the authority of
>their husbands and entering the work place, God being taken out of schools,
>and homosexual practises being accepted there has been a rise in murder,
>violence, drugs, sexual immorality, etc... Now you want turn more from
>Christ! Are you mad?

Posted by: Pseudonym Feb 14 2005, 01:52 AM
I don't technically "believe" in the concept of a conti nuation of existence after death; I entertain the prospect, as an intellectual argument, but I certainly don't pretend to know whether there is one or not. I'll be just as comfortable feeding the worms as providing fresh fodder for Nirvana, but the opinions expressed in the mails sent to you Rameus makes me hope that there is some form of conscious continuation, and when the adherents of Christianity finally enter into it and realise how simplistic, how deluded and fallacious their preconceptions of said state are, the rest can float around pointing and laughing which is essentially a more honest expression of the same psychological attitude Christian ideology promotes in this existence.

Posted by: The Acid Washed Messiah Feb 14 2005, 08:00 AM
Those were wonderful responses, Rameus.

Can I have your permission to print out just the emails and responses and show them to someone who isn't online?

Posted by: lalli Feb 14 2005, 10:15 AM
Sekdamn Rameus, you're supposed to be a take-no-prisoners atheist asshole. Where'd all the compassion for the sheeple come from? wicked.gif

Posted by: Casey Feb 14 2005, 09:37 PM
QUOTE (Rameus)
WHY WOULD ANYONE WITNESS TO RAMEUS?


Converting you Rameus, would be like making Seven No Trumps Redoubled Vul at $1000 a point with an Ace out. It's just possible with the right holding if you get the right lead, but highly improbable. Let's see now, that's $880,000 for the tricks, $1,500,000 bonus and a mere $100,000 for the insult. Total $2,480,000. You could at least buy a modest room in Heaven for that, surely?

And if you're set, as you very likely will be? Oh well, that'll be $400,000 for the first undertrick and $600,000 for each one after that. "Oh my aching ass!" you might say.

I must admit, I've never come across anyone quite that crazy at cards, but I have seen 'em try bids that were almost as insane. If playing cards can send some people that far around the bend, what could fundamentalist christianity do to them?

I like your responses. That's the give to stuff 'em!
Casey

Posted by: Kali Aset Feb 22 2005, 03:33 AM
*sigh* Trying to talk sense to a Fundie is almost always pointless. They dismiss most everything you say because you, my friend, are influenced by the big, bad man in red himself. (Wait, was that Santa or Satan? Eh, whatever. . . )

I heartily applaud your responses. Every word you wrote echoes my own sentiments, and I now have hope that their raving insanity will wither and die, and that this religious sickness will be washed clean from the earth. It should be noted that nearly all the intelligent, well educated people of this world rejected and continue to reject Christianity (including Lincoln, Paine, Jefferson, Nietszche, Voltaire, Madison, etc.)

Here are some of my fav quotes:

"Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and tortuous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we called it the word of a demon, than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind; and, for my part, I sincerely detest it, as I detest anything that is cruel."
Thomas Paine

"My earlier views of the unsoundness of the Christian scheme of salvation and the human origin of the scriptures has become clearer and stronger with advancing years."
-Abraham Lincoln

"What are the fruits of Christianity? Bigotry, superstition, and persecution." -President James Madison

"In Christianity neither morality nor religion come into contact with reality at any point."
Friedrich Nietzsche

"Away, then, with the Christian theology! Away with a god invented by preachers of the bloody faith, who, without their important nothing, by means of which they explain everything, could no longer revel in superfluity; no longer glorify poverty and live in luxury themselves; no longer preach submission and practice arrogance; but who would, through the march of reason, be hurled into the deepest depths of oblivion."
- Johann Most, The God Pestilence

AMEN!


Posted by: Lord Umbra Feb 22 2005, 05:57 AM
DAMN!!! Remind me to NEVER cross swords with Rameus! Excellent ripostes, all the way around. Cryotanknotworthy.gif

Posted by: anony~mouse Feb 22 2005, 09:45 AM
I liked a lot of what you said, with a few exceptions:
1. Egypt is actually a very liberal middle eastern country, somewhat similar to Turkey. Many women there wear makeup and western clothing. Afghanistan and a few other countries a little farther east are the ones more prone to forcing women to be subservient to men. Additionally, female circumcision occurs mainly in Islamic sub-Saharan African countries. I don't know where you got the idea that Muslim countries were so devoid of crime, but it's certainly not true. Regardless of religion (or lack thereof), every country has its problems. The rise of fundamentalist Islam is causing many problems for previously progressive Islamic countries, as it is starting to here in the U.S.
2. I also disagree with you on China. The Chinese government still has a disturbing amount of power over its citizens, and I don't care whether a country is predominantly Christian or atheist - NO government should have that much power. It doesn't matter who you are; power corrupts.

Posted by: Rameus Feb 23 2005, 12:24 AM
QUOTE
I liked a lot of what you said, with a few exceptions:
1. Egypt is actually a very liberal middle eastern country, somewhat similar to Turkey. Many women there wear makeup and western clothing.


Hi my name is Rameus, I've been there and I'm conversational in Egyptian colloquial Arabic. Do you mind terribly much if I make my own observations about a culture that I know something about? Thanks.

Your assertion that Egypt is relatively liberal (in relation to most of the other Islamic societies which are ultra-conservative) as far as Islamic nations go is accurate. Although that’s sort of like saying that fascist Italy was relatively liberal compared to Nazi Germany. Your comment that many women there wear makeup and Western clothing is inaccurate. If you were speaking of Alexandria only, then perhaps you might have a reasonable statement.

QUOTE
Additionally, female circumcision occurs mainly in Islamic sub-Saharan African countries.


It is also done in North Africa and parts of the Middle East. Thanks again for your input.

QUOTE
I don't know where you got the idea that Muslim countries were so devoid of crime, but it's certainly not true.


I could quite happily walk through any neighborhood in Cairo (20-22 million people) at one in the morning and think nothing of it. Would I have the same cavalier attitude in certain neighborhoods in New York City, Detroit, or Los Angeles at one in the morning? Probably not. Islamic countries have a Hell of a lot less violent crime then most Western countries my friend; especially the United States. This was the point I was attempting to make to Miss Johnson. You may not agree, but that does not change the fact that you are mistaken.

QUOTE
Regardless of religion (or lack thereof), every country has its problems.


Obviously. You seem to have missed the point I was trying to make with these cultural analogies.

QUOTE
The rise of fundamentalist Islam is causing many problems for previously progressive Islamic countries, as it is starting to here in the U.S.


Again, obviously. How does this relate to my correspondences with Miss Johnson?

QUOTE
2. I also disagree with you on China.


I can't say I'm terribly surprised.

Rameus

Posted by: jjacksonRIAB Feb 23 2005, 01:18 AM
QUOTE (Josalo @ Feb 13 2005, 07:39 PM)
One thing I'd like to point out about the email sent to you Rameus is that violent crimes dropped dramatically in the 1990's.

QUOTE
>and further that the Truth of Jesus Christ doesn't help our
>society. You are wrong. As there has been a decline in Church attendence,
>less men taking responsibilty, less women remaining under the authority of
>their husbands and entering the work place, God being taken out of schools,
>and homosexual practises being accepted there has been a rise in murder,
>violence, drugs, sexual immorality, etc... Now you want turn more from
>Christ! Are you mad?

Josalo, you bastard

You beat me to the punch. There is neither correlation nor casuality, though they try to create some myth of the decline of Christianity as the reason that bad things are (or in this case, aren't) happening.

Posted by: Mad_Gerbil Feb 23 2005, 03:25 AM
We witness to Rameus because it is an attempt to covert the anti-Christ before all that plague/famine/sword stuff hits the fan.

Posted by: Pseudonym Feb 23 2005, 03:32 AM
I know that was meant as a joke Gerbil, but you have inadvertantly referred to a familiar and widely-used defence mechanism Christians the whole world over use when presented with ideas that conflict with their own preconceptions of "truth"; the condemnation of the harbourer of said ideas as "wicked", "in league with Satan" etc. The irony of this is that there are more Buddhists, Muslims and Hindus walking the earth today than there are Christians. This does not even take into account the atheists, the agnostics, the pagans, the wiccans, shintoists and so on, and so forth. Hell of a lot of Hell-worthy people alive and kicking today eh?

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