The closest to a reconverting mentor as been Madame M's reconversion...
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| Posted by: formerfundie Oct 6 2004, 07:23 PM |
| It's very irksome...this...discovering that the one who was instrumental in steering you in the direction of deconversion...HAS RE-CONVERTED! It's depressing. And, I don't understand. I just had to throw that out there. One and one are not adding up to 2 for me here. I really hate stuff like this. It doesn't make sense. I guess the man I thought was blatantly atheist settled some issues he may have been having with his god or something. It's really weirded me out. It's left me wondering what dramatic event took place that I don't know about that made him change his mind. Unfortunately, the relationship is more of mentor-teacher/student--so I can't just come right out and ask him, and even if I did he probably wouldn't tell me anyway 'cause the dynamic isn't like that. Oh well. I know there are others of you who have had this happen to you. Did it make you angry/sad or what? Thanks. FF |
| Posted by: Tocis Oct 6 2004, 08:39 PM |
| Never had that happen to me... not really that is. In a way, you all are my "mentors". While I deconverted before I even knew this site exists, what I found predominantly here built the foundation of what I think about christianity today. No, let's be fair, make that "christian" fundyism. The closest to a reconverting mentor as been Madame M's reconversion... |
| Posted by: Zoe Grace Oct 6 2004, 08:59 PM |
| i was creeped out when Jeff of religionisbullshit.com reconverted but I think he deconverted again. Its a manic depressive thing I think. |
| Posted by: Slayer-2004 Oct 7 2004, 05:48 AM |
| ussually people who reconvert do so because of some emotional occurance rather then a logical one . I posted a few basic question to madam m on christianity and I recieved no reply ... the only reason she re-converted was because she found a church of nice people . Something tells me we may see her back here one day . |
| Posted by: atheist_ewtcoma Oct 7 2004, 07:47 AM |
| I have never seen any atheist that I know to de-evolve. Maby that person was a weak atheist? Maybe they had some psychlogical need for social acceptance, community, and to be apart of a feeling of something greater then ones self. Any way the religious right love these to make example of these people. If you are an atheist, It is your duty and your responibility to your self to allways keep informed on science and other points of view. Weak atheist are like agnostics, they don't believe but they may not have all the science and knowledge to back up their claims. So their philosphy may be shaky at best. They are targets for the The strong atheist such as me. Have the philisophical views, knowldge of history, cultures and the scientific understanding to back up their claims. |
| Posted by: ericf Oct 8 2004, 10:57 PM |
| I never had a mentor when I deconverted. But after I deconverted I had a friend go on a little backsliding streak. Claimed to not believe and all that. I never told him my non-belief. Eventually he finished sowing his oats and found Jesus again. Never really upset me... I sortof expected it to be honest. |
| Posted by: rainyday8169 Oct 9 2004, 09:32 AM |
| Happens here all the time we even have a Catholic moderator its very discouraging |
| Posted by: jaded Oct 9 2004, 12:40 PM |
| I am not surprised that some people reconvert. There is no support group for atheists or agnostics. We don't get together every week to talk about how we dug our own asses out of our messes or gave ourselves the strength to get through another week. Some would say that the truth doesn't need to be reinforced weekly, unlike religion where people need to get together in groups to convince themselves that they are not insane for believing in invisible friends, but it is hard to give up the feeling of community and being among friends. Obviously some people are going to miss that. There are also some pretty big unanswered questions about life and death. Realizing that you will die one day and that is the end of everything you have ever known is tough. Believing in a comforting lie may be better than facing the truth for some. You can study the bible and the history of it and KNOW that it is not what it claims to be. I have never heard of someone presenting repeatable, verifiable proof of god or life after death. Despite that some people still reconvert. It will probably remain a mystery why they do that as much as the reasoning behind our deconvertion is mysterious to the hard core fundy. |
| Posted by: REBOOT Oct 9 2004, 12:43 PM |
| Mentors.... Gurus... They're all humans. A person can be inspiring but that doesn't mean he should be a point of reference and a sole source of information forever. Are you falling in the Jesus trap  |
| Posted by: rainyday8169 Oct 9 2004, 01:32 PM | ||
It didn't bother you? Not at all? You didn't think your friend was weak? Or worse .......stupid? A mindless sheep? etc. I have a hard time with people, especially those I perceive to be intelligent, believing in such nonsense, letting it cloud their judgment and making them judgmental. It makes it hard to respect them or trust in a single decision they make. |
| Posted by: ericf Oct 9 2004, 06:53 PM |
| No, it didn't really bother me. I saw that he was rebelling for the sake of being a rebel and I also saw the reality of the religious pressure. We were in an almost omnipresent church. And I knew that he would get sick of what he was doing... I was already strongly influenced by Buddhist ideas even though I didn't recognize it... and I knew he went from one extreme to the other. I saw that living at an extreme was going to be just as empty for him. And the only safety net he had was the church. When he realized how unfulfilled he was then he would swing back to the church because it predicted how unfulfilled he must have been so it must be true. Did I wish he had seen the whole picture? Sure... but he had the right to make his own mistakes. I surely didn't think he was stupid or weak though. Just set up to fail from the onset. It was the reality of the situation and I was at peace with it. You just can't have everyone surrounding you be church people and not fall back to that. There was nothing I could do to stop it because to each mindset my advice would have seemed to come from the enemy. I could only watch and wait. There was a small sliver of hope deep inside that he might see but not very much. I saw the pressure acting on people daily... almost cultish. |
| Posted by: AugustWart Oct 10 2004, 12:36 AM |
| I've come close to reconverting to a moderate form of Christianity. Two things I could never go back to are the biblical inerrancy doctrine, and a literal interpretation of Genesis. But yes, I do miss the church's ambience and people listening to me when I talk about the Bible. To be completely honest, I walked away because I thought that's what Jesus would've suggested I do. Truth incarnate would never want me to live what I thought was a lie even if it were true. Perhaps I still live a moderate form of Christianity? I don't know. I just know that I could never be what I was. And if I ever fall from my proverbial grace, I suppose I would deserve the damnation of a just god. I almost said "pray for me." hehe. Old habits die hard.  |
| Posted by: Tocis Oct 10 2004, 03:26 AM |
Oh well, we don't have to pray to the christian gawd, do we?  To complete the pun: May Odin's wisdom always guide your way...  |
| Posted by: Ian Oct 10 2004, 11:27 AM |
| the only reason I can see anyone re-converting are probably the same reasons someone de-converted quickly . They may have made a rash emotional decision that wasn`t based on any sort of logic. From the many anti-testimonials I've read here most of them are about people who took a long time of thinking about their faith and the cognitive dissonance that came with actually evaluating their beliefs on a logical scale. Usually if we are left in a emotionally vulnerable state we can make some decisions that aren`t based on any sort of logic. For lots of folks de-converting took a long time...months..years..for re-converting , it could be a lot quicker if we were in the right state of mind. The human psyche is a very fragile thing. I have my moments where I wish I believed and liked all the nice fuzzy warmness that christianity (supposedly) offered (like a nice group of new friends, a nice warm feeling that an invisible big brother was looking out for me). But then the other side of my brain pulls me back down to earth with all those nasty facts and evidence... that darn logic ! Ian |
| Posted by: Valgeir Oct 10 2004, 02:07 PM |
| I can't say anyone instrumental in my deconversion reconverted- my deconversion was mainly a solo deal. But James Hetfield and Dave Mustaine reconverted, and that bothered me. Almost pissed me off. Dave Mustaine moreso than James, Dave is practically a "born again" fundy now. Even added a thanks to god in the booklet for the CD "Rust In Peace" when their record label re-released it this year. JEEZ, THE FIRST SONG ON THAT ALBUM ("Holy Wars... The Punishment Due") CRITICIZES RELIGION. |
| Posted by: Saviourmachine Oct 11 2004, 08:55 AM | ||
Strong atheist as you do have só much knowledge, have all the science, can back up every claim. :( :( :( Please explain me how conscience came to be. What kind of self-organization does occur? How is it such as it is? How do you know for sure that causality is the king of the universe? How do you know for sure that everything is reducible to physical entities? Do you know how the universe came to be? For me it's okay that others are non-xian or xian. It's not black-white. Many xians formulate their own morals, accept major science, enjoy life as much as I do. That's what I - as biohedonist* & evoscientist** - stands for. * Biohedonist: A hedonist that accepts many biological inherited quantities as legimitate parts of the human nature (also empathy, love for others, caring for kids). ** Evoscientist: Just as so many human qualities science evolves. We don't know everything nowadays, nor will we ever. But we will be able to look every time better in the future/past, micro/macro scales, mental/physical world, abstract/real world. The prefix 'evo' I use also for myself. I myself are developing my skills over time. I'll never grow too old to believe that I have all science or knowledge. |
| Posted by: John Doe Oct 14 2004, 10:30 PM |
| I really didn't have anyone who mentored me out of Christianity, although I did email back and forth for awhile with a guy I was debating on another discussion board who actually did open my eyes quite a bit. What he really got me to do was to look inward without any outside influence, and be 100% honest with myself about what I really *know* vs. what I only believe. Once I did that I realized I was an atheist. If we actually have inherent knowledge of god (as many religionists claim) then I should not have arrived at that conclusion, regardless of if I have read one shred of the Bible or Quran or any other holy book on the face of this planet. And if on the slight chance that I am mentally ill and there really is a god, he/she/it will know that and I trust it will not hold me accountable for not being in possession of this supposed "knowledge" that I apparently don't have. I guess my point is that I came to this conclusion myself, so it wouldn't matter if every atheist and agnostic in the world became a Christian tomorrow, I always have to be honest with myself above all else. That's the best I can do in this life. |
| Posted by: Zoe Grace Oct 15 2004, 01:50 AM |
| i don't really think it much matters if someone reconverts. Not to me at least. People convert and reconvert and deconvert to new ideas all the time. But then again I didn't have a mentor. I just left on my own. I guess I considered the whole "latching onto a mentor" thing, just another "follow the leader" type of game, and I was through with that. I was in a pagan group for awhile but they all seemed to want to control what I believed too...with stuff that I'm sure they thought sounded open-minded like: "all paths are sacred, but that's not the way WE do it. Other people may do this but WE do this." It was just as much an "us/them" mentality as fundie christianity. So I was just like "fuck this shit, I'm going home." And Home I went. I've been solitary in my spiritual practice ever since and haven't regretted it. I decided that it wasn't wise to get together in groups of people based on my beliefs. Because spirituality is so personal and private...it would be like being in a social group that focused on my sexuality. WEIRD. So I hang out with people at school. I have groups I'm in where I am around others, like Bellydance...but I decided to keep my spirituality like my sex life...between and and well, me. (although to be fair, my sex life also includes tom.) I guess from that point on I considered spiritual or anti-spiritual mentors...to be something I disliked...because there is the tendency to set someone up like a guru and just become a sheep again, except following someone else. Just my 2 cents. Btw...what happens when I reach 150 posts? Do I get a cookie???  |
| Posted by: Zoe Grace Oct 15 2004, 01:52 AM |
| post 146 (sorry trying to pad my posts...I NEED to know what happens at 150.) |
| Posted by: Zoe Grace Oct 15 2004, 01:53 AM |
| post 147. |
| Posted by: Zoe Grace Oct 15 2004, 01:53 AM |
| post 148. |
| Posted by: Zoe Grace Oct 15 2004, 01:54 AM |
| post 149 (almost through, please please please don't beat me with a stick.) |
| Posted by: Zoe Grace Oct 15 2004, 01:55 AM |
post 150. HAPPY NEW YEAR!  |
| Posted by: Zoe Grace Oct 15 2004, 01:56 AM |
| Goddammit! Nothing happened. I'm still a thinker. (well I suppose that's debatable at this point huh?) |
| Posted by: rainyday8169 Oct 15 2004, 02:27 AM |
| So silly |
| Posted by: Mr. Neil Oct 16 2004, 01:06 AM |
My goodness that would be screwed up to have the person who deconverted you reconvert. I made it out on my own, so I didn't have a mentor, but I could imagine the confusion of a few people who I've lead out of relgion if I were to join up. Luckily for those people, I ask too many questions of theists to reconvert. I won't accept things unless I understand them, and the one thing Christians just don't like doing is explaining things! |
| Posted by: Iconoclastithon Oct 17 2004, 04:26 PM | ||
Daves past brief and somewhat universal use of the term "God" used to come across as somewhat more agnostic or deistic; which is cool w/me.{even though he was a christian at the time, he was not to in your face about it}-I remember reading an interview in "HM"{heavans metal} magazine a few years ago w/Dave,after he had re-converted to christianity; the interviewer asked him about his faith/etc, and Dave got offended, he was'nt dooing the interview to talk about religon, he was dooing it to talk music. However, witht the lastest album that he just put out "the system has failed" has has one song where he talks about Noah and cain and abel as if they and the evtnts surrounding them in the bible are historical reality, and then whats worse one of the songs on the cd "shadow of deth" is nothing more than dave talking in a metal voice-quoting the 23rd psalm to metal music. That bothered me quite a bit, I though Dave would remain in his faith and not preach it in his albums{so far-he has'nt really done so}, but this was a big let down. |
| Posted by: Valgeir Oct 17 2004, 04:40 PM |
| Well, I mean, I didn't have so much of a problem with the reconversion but it's kinda like, "WHY?!" You're right, too, it's becoming a little more in-your-face than it was. Apparently there's a correlation between drug use and being born again... Dave Mustaine, George Bush the Second... |
| Posted by: spidermonkey Oct 17 2004, 05:32 PM | ||
I guess it's lucky for me that I've only been stoned off my ass once.  |
| Posted by: bob Oct 18 2004, 05:20 AM | ||
Very good points Jaded. I left the faith on my on, so to speak. I had not had a church home for the previous ten years due to disillusionment with organized religion. I was still a believer but felt that, not only was I not living as Jesus would have me live, but neither I couldn't find anyone who was. Dan Barkers "Losing Faith in Faith" was the final nail in the coffin. I suppose if he found Jesus again, I would be a tad disappointed. I have had a few sensations over the past few years since my deconversion that I find interesting. They come only when I pick up my old Scofield bible. I am a photographer, and I was doing school portraits at a church school a few weeks ago. As a background prop, I had my old bible sitting on a pedestal behind the student in the portrait. As I was waiting for kids to come in, I picked it up and as I held it, a mild wave of...excitement, anticipation?,...holiness?...security?, came over me. Now I am just barely smart enough to realize that it was a conditioned response. As I looked at the well worn black leather cover, the feeling increased. I leafed through the gold trimmed pages, scanning over the notes in the margins, the underlined verses. This book once held all the answers for me. When I picked it up, as a believer, I knew the answers were in it, even though I seldom found any. Just the idea of having the guide book for all humanity right here in my hands was frequently comforting. I am now comforted by a hot coffee in the morning and a bourbon & coke in the evening. |
| Posted by: ficino Oct 23 2004, 07:03 AM |
| Someone who reconverts to christianity after glimpsing the promised land NEVER REALLY WAS an atheist in the first place. They really need to give unbelief a decent chance. Probably they haven't done enough philosophy study or thought hard enough. I feel really sorry for them because if they don't swallow their pride and mend their ways, the life-long HELL of delusion awaits them!!! Ha ha. Sound like the stuff we get from christians all the time? No, actually. What I just said, stripped of its little attempt at a sarcastic tone, seems accurate to me. People who reconvert may in fact not have had rational reasons, well-thought-out, for their deconversion. If they reconverted because they think arguments for christianity are valid, I really can't understand how they could have devoted rigorous thought to their deconversion. I can understand the pull of the desire to be with the kind of nice people who often are attracted to christianity. Just the other day I walked by a table and saw some peopel having a little fellowship meeting, and they looked so nice and wholesome I felt nostalgic for my days of fellowship. I can't go back to "ideological friendships," though. I also understand how, when you're down and depressed and full of grief, you just wan to relax and believe something that can make you feel happy. So you pick and choose some part of the whole christian/bible message and believe that part. |
| Posted by: Mr. Neil Oct 23 2004, 07:16 AM | ||
I would disagree with that, because the only defining attribute of an atheist is one who does not believe. If they didn't believe at one time, they were once an atheist. Besides, that's an argument that Christians use, where they say that if you left Christianity, then you weren't a Christian to begin with. (there's an amusing refute to that assertion, though) However, I would say that people who reconvert were never good at rational thinking. Ask anyone who's reconverted to Christianity, and they will give either an emotional reason, or an appeal to fear of the unknown. Why is this bad? Because our emotions are not tied to our reality. That is the error of those who reconvert. |
| Posted by: ficino Oct 23 2004, 07:46 AM |
| Hi, Mr. Neil. My first paragraph was supposed to be a parody of what so many christians say when they come onto this website and read someone's antitestimony! It wasn't an argument. Then i thought, well, maybe there's something behind the parody, though. In Ancient Greek, an "atheos" generally is someone who positively denies the gods, either withholds worship or denies their power or existence. But I agree there's no unified doctrine beyond this denial that atheists have to hold in order to be classified as atheists. I'm pretty sure you and I are in no disagreement except perhaps over a nuance or two. I've enjoyed and profited from your postings. Cheers |
| Posted by: ficino Oct 23 2004, 08:27 AM |
| Oh, Mr. Neil, I also agree with you that an atheist is an atheist at any time the person holds "atheist" positions. By no means do I think that an ontological change occurs at the moment of (de)conversion. It's weird how born-again types believe that there are two referenda of "christian" corresponding to the external church of professing believers and the true church of god's elect. They can't know whether they or their chums are true Christians except by some back-door maneuvers (e.g. by special revelation, Calvinists talk of spcial assurance of salvation, etc. etc.). I don't think most other religions encourage their adherents to feel good over apostates by saying "they were never truly of us," do they? I guess in christianity that goes back to the epistles of John. |
| Posted by: formerfundie Oct 24 2004, 12:04 AM | ||
Good point, thanks, and no. FF |
| Posted by: formerfundie Oct 24 2004, 12:13 AM | ||
Okay, there was a whole other point in here about being in groups and keeping one's spirituality (or lack thereof Iguess) to oneself that I found most appealing, but for some reason, I lost it in translation--I especially liked the part about not becoming a "sheeple" again to a mentor or guru--definitely good advice there. As far as not beating you with a stick--well--I'll really, really, REALLY have to implement and exercise my already overabundant character of self-control. FF Think I'll go make some coffee now. It's gettin' "early" |
| Posted by: formerfundie Oct 24 2004, 12:32 AM | ||
It's really screwed up, Neil. Basically, though, he was instrumental in my shifting away from christianity and the whole doctrine of biblical inerrancy I'd been immersed in for years, by getting me to actually THINK about a different pov and do some research and investigation. He's the one that actually stimulated the critical thinking skills, so that's what's got my pantyhose all in a knot. I'm telling you, when I came up outta all that I literally felt like "Rumpelstiltskin" (I probably spelled that wrong) Hey, okay, so I grew up with stories and fairy tales--I felt like I'd been asleep for years--and like my brain had been asleep for years, and it had. I'm embarrassed about the stuff I believed to be true, and that it took so long to actually realize how impossible and improbable and illogical it all was. Can anyone at all relate to that in even the slightest way? I really question how I was able to even function at all in the condition I'd been in. Guess it's my turn, Ms. Zoe, to do some "padding"--but I have a valid excuse--I have been away from here for a very long time and am just now getting back on here and noticed how this thread had grown so wanted to take the time to read and respond. |
| Posted by: formerfundie Oct 24 2004, 12:37 AM | ||||
LAST ONE, I PROMISE. AT LEAST HERE.
Understood, and agreed.
Thanks, I needed that! FF |
| Posted by: Wolfgang Oct 27 2004, 06:56 PM |
| My twin brother was a pretty big part of my deconversion. We would talk for hours about how full of holes the christian belief was. Then about six months ago,just out of the blue, he decided he needed religion again. I think it has a lot to do with the fact that he is married and has a child and his wife is now pregnant. I don't know how long it will last though. He was a Xtian then a Satanist then a Xtian then an atheist and now he is a Xtian again. He seems to me to be more of a flip-flopper than John Kerry. But yes it was a big blow to see him go back to the church. I however, have seen too much of the evidence that the christian religion is full of holes to ever go back. |
| Posted by: ChristineTGallagher Nov 7 2004, 10:22 AM | ||
you are exactly right. Jesus wouldn't want that. Until you come to a different viewpoint, you cannot help it. - Like I said before: Seek! |
| Posted by: Reach Nov 9 2004, 09:36 AM | ||
I hear you and I agree. I see it as a matter of integrity, or chiefly, intellectual honesty. I know what is at the core of me better than anyone else. If everyone turned and embraced the Christian faith tomorrow, although I surmise that would be earth-shaking for me personally, I would still have to stick with what I have come to know and what I know of myself and that is that I just can't believe the pile of waste that Christianity is, past, present and the imaginable future. Much to my dismay, I had no mentors in Christianity and I eventually found myself studying my way out of it. It took years to do so and I had to do it alone, for the most part. Leaving the faith was never an emotional decision for me but I learned that erudition is costly. FF, I'm truly sorry for your loss. Given time, I hope it will be nothing more than a passing frustration, like a pesty fly. Reach |
| Posted by: Emperor Norton II Nov 9 2004, 01:47 PM |
| So, why doesn't someone start up a big meeting hall for people to come to on Saturday/Sunday evenings for atheists and agnostics? Most of us miss being with people like we did in churches... maybe it's time we started making our own meeting-places. |
| Posted by: Pope Ima Mused Nov 11 2004, 08:29 AM |
| I never had an atheist mentor - I also made it out on my own. An atheist becoming a Christian doesn't surprise me much, if the atheist in question simply didn't believe in God. An ex-Christian atheist, who KNOWS the Bible makes no damn sense, reconverting to Christianity makes no sense to me. Sure I miss the church, sure I miss the music and the holidays - I can relate to WANTING to believe. But how do you believe if you KNOW it isn't true? I can understand an Atheist having an experience that convinced him/her that God exists, but why try to believe in a religion that is clearly a lie, when there are so many other religions to choose from? Why do people think inner knowing or answered prayers are proof of Christianity? What if God is non-denominational? Atheist Ewtcoma - I am not an Atheist, and I resent the implication that Agnostics aren't as informed as Atheists. I simply like to keep an open mind. |
| Posted by: SpaceMonk Nov 13 2004, 07:53 AM |
Those who think they can reconvert are wasting their time.  They might as well eat drink and be merry because they've blown their one shot. Christianity doesn't allow "reconversion": Hebrews 6:4-8 "For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned."  |
| Posted by: Lila Bender Nov 13 2004, 11:35 AM |
| "Its a manic depressive thing I think." ehhem. No, what's a manic depressive thing is getting disproportionately irked at comments stemming from a place of ignorance. Religion may act as a trigger for manic or depressive episodes, but not so much as being steroetyped does. I wouldn't be surprised if his illness caused his thinking and his feeling to become agitated, and erratic, but reconverting is a process and when your manic you do things on impulse. Lila I love your name SpaceMonk. I was still waking up when I looked at it this moring and I thought I saw Spankmonk(ey) kisses |
| Posted by: PriorWorrier Nov 13 2004, 03:26 PM | ||
Wow, I didn't remember hearing that passage before. It seems pretty cut and dry. I'm sure any good apologist (like a good attorney) worth his salt can talk around that one though. How can anybody crucify Jesus again after he's already hung up his cross and gone back to heaven? |
| Posted by: PriorWorrier Nov 13 2004, 03:45 PM | ||
I missed the bit about Mme. M.'s reconversion. I must say I'm surprised after reading her posts. I remember the promotional piece for Dr. Franklin Graham and how he was presented as a reformed rebel. St. Paul was supposedly a pretty bad thug. The thief on the cross got to sit at Christ's right hand. The more heinous the crime you commit before converting, the bigger sensation you become as a Christian. One doesn't make much impact as a milksop/doormat/sheeple. Mme. M. was probably welcomed back as a hero. |
| Posted by: Slayer-2004 Nov 14 2004, 07:40 AM | ||
gotta love apologetics . the best apologists can take a verse that specifically states "sacrifice animals pure and of no sin" and explain how it actually means we should eat lots of yogurt and pwaise da lard . It wont change the fact that the verse still means pretty much what it says , but at least the xians will have a cop-out . |
| Posted by: MonkeyBoy Nov 18 2004, 05:22 PM | ||
That would be great! i never had a mentor either, and the hardest thing for me to leave wasn't the fear of hell or letting down my family (that I helpde convert in the first place), it was leaving the fellowship. In Columbus Ohio, there are 'meet-ups', about once a week or so; but the meetings that I attended seemed dominated by a few individuals that were dogmatic about their unbelief. They looked at you funn if you said, "God", as in, "God, this sandwich tastes like ass!". I always joked that I was going to start the First Church of Atheism; tax free donations, focusing on answering objections in the body. Allowing a alengthy Q & A after the teaching and possibly meeting at other people's homes once a week. I do not know one singe ex-christian here (except my wife), but she doesn't really talk about it much. I am almost like a crack addict when it comes to this subject. I am fascinated by the fact that I used to believe at all, and the psycology behind it. Ah well. Time to plan my church; maybe next to a Hooters? |