Printable Version of Topic Click here to view this topic in its original format

Open Forums for ExChristian.Net > Old Board > Marriage?

Posted by: sexkitten Oct 20 2004, 04:32 PM

Printable Version of Topic Click here to view this topic in its original format ExChristian.Net Open Forums > Rants & Replies > Marriage? Posted by: aranel Aug 27 2004, 05:02 PM The horror. Blessing Our Husbands by Rachel Weaver Ways that a Wife Can Bless Her Husband taken from ideas given by a group of husbands. If you want a great study tool that will help you to be a submissive wife, then this is it! 1. Pray for your husband daily, not just casually ("God Bless Hubby") but for specific areas of need and blessing. 2. Thank God for your husband's strengths, for the growth you see, and for the kindnesses that he shows you and the needs he meets in your life. 3. Meditate often (at least once a week) on the Scriptures that teach your responsibilities and position in the home. 4. Listen to him. Try to really hear what he is saying when he communicates with you. 5. When he seems perplexed and troubled, do not pressure him. Support him by prayer, your presence, and words of encouragement. 6. Be ready to share your observations and insights in a meek spirit, but openly and honestly, when he asks you. You can be his best counselor. You can anchor him when he needs it most. 7. Encourage him. Do not nag him, or boss him. Do not argue with him even if you are sure he is wrong. He may have something in mind that you are not aware of or do not understand. Ask his counsel and advice. 8. Only say up-building and affirming things about your husband to others. Do not criticize him even in a joking manner. Very rarely should you find yourself sharing anything about his faults or failings, and then only with someone who is truly in a position to help. 9. Bless your husband in public. Do not apologize for his background, weaknesses or failures. This will build up your reverence for him and help establish the trust that you should both have for each other. 10. If your husband has failed, entreat him in meekness, don't exaggerate the issue or berate him. 11. Let him know that you want him to be your leader not only by what you say but by what you do. You get that message across by the way you respond to the leadership he does give you. 12. Seek to please your husband even when he does not spell out what he wants you to do. Try to determine what his heart's desire is and do it as fully as possible. 13. Teach your children to honor him, respect him, and bless him. You do this best by your own example. 14. Depend on him. Be very sensitive to areas in which he wants you to act independently. Do not run away with this responsibility. Handle it carefully. If in question, choose dependence not independence. 15. Seek opportunities to serve your husband in love. Find ways to show him that he is your "lord." 16. Be ready to make changes in your day or schedule to accommodate his needs or desires, especially if you run a home business and he needs you or the children to serve in some capacity. 17. When you need to make an appeal, prepare carefully. Choose your words wisely. Choose the time well so that you can have his attention and time to explain yourself. That way you can be sure that he understands you. When he is weary, at the end of a long day is not a good time to communicate weighty matters. 18. Always let your husband have the last word, the deciding vote, the majority rule. 19. Don't say "I told you so." 20. Show appreciation for the way he provides for you. 21. Let your husband know that you love his attention to you and his singleness of heart for you. Bask in this attention and help him relate discreetly to other women especially by letting him know what makes women respond. 22. Reserve yourself, your beauty, and your charm for him. Maintain true modesty and reserve while relating to other men. There are many, many ways to bless your husband that were not even touched here. These are just a few of the ways some husbands discussed that would make them feel honored. Women tend to think of kisses, hugs, notes in lunch boxes and a meal spent together alone. I am sure that our men appreciate all of those things. But as I typed this list that husbands had made, I was extremely impressed with their need for support and encouragement. They need and want a visible show of this. It is born out in our everyday life in the way we walk and talk, and in the way we respond to their leadership, plans, and desires. I think that many times we ladies are blind to how much contriving and planning we do to get our own way. Perhaps not consciously, but non-the-less we often tend to get what we really desire. We think we just make good valid appeals. These appeals are in order sometimes, but where is your heart? Is it where your husband can safely rest or are you always pushing the limit? Are you always going to bat for your young people and helping your husband to see why this or that is such a good idea? No doubt you do have good ideas that need to be shared, sometimes. But I am fully persuaded that I, all too often, am really blind to my husband's true desires. Let us pray for each other and meditate on how we can be women whose husbands can safely trust in. Let us be supporters, encourages and blessers. Let us affirm our husbands and be there for them. I think it is especially important as our families grow up and husbands need to make boundaries and guidelines for our young people. Often these guidelines are hard to make and even harder to implement. Let us back our husbands up and help them in their sincere desire to guide our families right. We can make their job infinitely easier and thus build a relationship of trust that deepens through the years, rather than ones that erodes as our young people grow in maturity. What a valuable legacy to pass on to posterity! Can he trust you to stand by him? Posted by: DoubleDee Aug 27 2004, 05:06 PM I'm sorry I read this shit. It always makes me want to Posted by: Lacey Aug 27 2004, 05:27 PM Is that real? They should just make the "do what I'm told" Barbie and get it over with. *pull string* "My opinions don't matter he he he"... Posted by: Lanakila Aug 27 2004, 05:27 PM I lived that type relationship. Guess what, it doesn't work at all, unless you stay fundy, and then you have to value the commitment above each other. When I deconverted I realized that that type marriage destroyed any semblance of love I had for my spouse. I was an object, treated like a child, and he was my father figure. He didn't respect me, and my children followed his example. I don't hate him, because he knew no better and only did what he was taught, and so did I for that matter. Isn't the Bible such a great guide for life? Posted by: biggles7268 Aug 27 2004, 05:38 PM I couldn't even read past the first few, what kind of man would want a woman like that in the first place????????????????????????? Posted by: I Broke Free Aug 27 2004, 05:43 PM QUOTE (biggles7268 @ Aug 27 2004, 09:38 PM) I couldn't even read past the first few, what kind of man would want a woman like that in the first place????????????????????????? Agreed, I to could not get past the first few paragraphs. It sounded like she was describing the perfect cocker spaniel.. Posted by: spidermonkey Aug 27 2004, 05:46 PM And to think that when I was a fundy, all I wanted to do was get married. Glad I didn't get married...that would have been another huge obstacle to overcome while deconverting. Posted by: Nivek Aug 27 2004, 07:04 PM JebusFuckkMoose... What kind of whining grovelling little pent up frustrated **** of a woman do the authors think Freemen WANT? I need an anchor, need strength, need someone to kick my fuckin' fatass into gear.. Need a friend, lover and dishwashing partner.. Not some little pissant fuckbuddie... If Kellie spent any time *meditatin'* it'd be some plot to find a deep hole.. Big deep hole.. Gotta keep my lady busy that way... ;) n Posted by: chefranden Aug 27 2004, 07:24 PM QUOTE (I Broke Free @ Aug 27 2004, 07:43 PM) QUOTE (biggles7268 @ Aug 27 2004, 09:38 PM) I couldn't even read past the first few, what kind of man would want a woman like that in the first place????????????????????????? Agreed, I to could not get past the first few paragraphs. It sounded like she was describing the perfect cocker spaniel.. Posted by: Tocis Aug 28 2004, 07:18 AM I try to imagine what such a woman would be like... and who would want one. (whistles) Here, woman. Please me! Posted by: Yaoi Huntress Earth Aug 28 2004, 10:13 AM That sure was vomit-inducing. Here's some ones that wifey-poo forgot to add... -Men need to feel secure in their masculinity so don't protest when he hits you. It is better that he takes it out on you than some innocent bystander. -Always place your husband above all mortals, even your own children. Men can't help themselves so it's a good idea to lock your daughters in the rooms until you can marry them off. This also helps keep your girls pure and uncorrupted. Just make sure you get her some sunglasses in case sunlight scares her. -Did your husband do something that made you mad? Just ball it up and toss it away. If you pray hard enough, God's grace will keep you from dismantling his bowling trophies in a really disturbing way. -If your husband insists on you wearing a paper bag over your head while creating a child, you can descorate it with markers and Jesus stickers so he knows you care enough to let him have something nice to look at while procreateing. -Do your best to make Martha Stewart look like Peg Bundy. -Grabbing you by the hair and sticking his private parts into your mouth while yanking your head back-and-forth is a sign of affection. -All those happy, sexually enlightened, affectionate couples you see walking by in public places have been corrupted by Satan. You're a slave-I mean helpmate, not an equal. Posted by: spidermonkey Aug 28 2004, 10:14 AM The sad part is...that article was written by a woman. I know it was taken from a group of fundy husbands, but still....why would any sane woman want to advocate that horseshit? I always found it amusing how my ex-church had this patronizing attitude toward singles (especially single women) --- why? Are they threatened by a woman who isn't tied down to a fundy asshole and submitting to him 24/7? Posted by: aranel Aug 28 2004, 10:33 AM Yeah, this is real. I googled "abstinence rings" for a psych essay on teen sex and I came up with this site called "Girls of Faith". Scary shit, I'd say. http://www.girlsoffaith.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=58 Posted by: sexkitten Aug 28 2004, 11:50 AM The truly insidious thing about this is that enough of the advice is basic, common sense interpersonal communication stuff (like, listen and try to understand what the other is saying, don't put the other down in public) or stuff which makes perfect sense if you believe in prayer (pray specifically for your partner, not just God bless him, and thanking God for your partner's strengths and good qualities) that it makes the rest of it easier to believe as reasonable. Posted by: I Broke Free Aug 28 2004, 11:59 AM 7. Encourage him. Do not nag him, or boss him. Do not argue with him even if you are sure he is wrong. He may have something in mind that you are not aware of or do not understand. Ask his counsel and advice. Part of me wants to say that any woman who could fall for this crap deserves it. And yet ALL christians, male and female must endure this. The relationship they have with god is just as demeaning. Posted by: Karl Aug 28 2004, 01:01 PM QUOTE (aranel @ Aug 28 2004, 02:33 PM) Yeah, this is real. I googled "abstinence rings" for a psych essay on teen sex and I came up with this site called "Girls of Faith". Scary shit, I'd say. http://www.girlsoffaith.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=58 It IS scary stuff......it looks like now, fundies are also starting to even be against dating... QUOTE (from the aforementioned site) Courtship "Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart" - 2 Timothy 2:22 Many Christian parents want an alternative to dating, which usually leads to emotional scars, fornication and divorce. God gives parents the responsibility of guiding their children in wise marriage decisions. We need to provide our children with an atmosphere where they can build a friendship in a safe environment free from circumstances where they are prone to fall into sin. We all get tempted and children are no exception. There is lots of advice available about courtship that you will come across and each author will have their own opinion about the subject. Remember that God is the one we need to listen to and obey. There are no "rules" to follow when your child is ready for courtship or betrothal and it is not an arranged marriage. Each family is unique and has their own situation. Keep in prayer. Pray for wisdom and God's guidance. "Flee fornication (The word fornication means sex relations among the unmarried). Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that commiteth fornication sinneth against his own body. What? Know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefor glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's." - 1 Corinthians 6:18-20 I bet there are some who do want to go back the old arranged marriage bullshit, where you don't get to be with your mate until your wedding night!..... ....wouldn't want to get "tempted" by that bad old K Posted by: spidermonkey Aug 28 2004, 02:09 PM QUOTE It IS scary stuff......it looks like now, fundies are also starting to even be against dating... Some fundies are against dating....my old youth pastor went on and on about a book called I Kissed Dating Goodbye. I never read it because I thought that Mr. Youth PasTARD's arguments about dating opening up the door to temptation was all bullshit. Posted by: aranel Aug 28 2004, 02:30 PM QUOTE (Karl @ Aug 28 2004, 01:01 PM) I bet there are some who do want to go back the old arranged marriage bullshit, where you don't get to be with your mate until your wedding night!..... ....wouldn't want to get "tempted" by that bad old K Speaking of arranged marriages, I just visited a christian forum that ENDORSED them. They tried to say that they have worked in India and China for generations...and we all know that life for women in those countries is a piece of cake! Posted by: phoenix Aug 28 2004, 03:25 PM QUOTE (spidermonkey @ Aug 28 2004, 05:09 PM) my old youth pastor went on and on about a book called I Kissed Dating Goodbye. i actually read that book! if i could remember it clearly enough, i'd tell you about it, but it's been a few years... mainly it talks about how we should go back to courtship, because in a dating situation, if we fall in love or have sex with somebody, then later break up - when we get married, we do not have a "whole heart" to offer them. Posted by: sexkitten Aug 28 2004, 04:07 PM That "whole heart" thing is just SO funny.... Posted by: msthendrix Aug 28 2004, 04:57 PM It gets even worse...I found this list of things fundie husbands are supposed to "forgive" their wifes for on christianity.com... "Listed below are some of the offenses that wives typically commit against their husbands. As men read through this list, it is a good idea to check the items that apply to their individual situations. Then they should use those items as a guide to specifically forgive their wives." I forgive my wife for: ___1. Expecting me to know what she needs without telling me ___2. Ignoring me ___3. Trying to be financially independent ___4. Not valuing my opinions ___5. Insisting on maintaining separate checking accounts ___6. Paying more attention to other people than to me ___7. Demonstrating greater loyalty to other people (children, parents, employer, friends, pastor, etc.) than to me ___8. Resisting my decisions in her heart ___9. Resisting my physical affection ___10. Making me feel guilty if I desire her sexually when she doesn’t desire me ___11. Being unresponsive to me sexually ___12. Withholding sex as a means of punishing me for my insensitivity or wrong behavior ___13. Taking my responsibilities into her hands in order to see to it that they get done ___14. Not respecting me as a person who is in a God-given position of authority over her ___15. Not respecting me as the God-given leader in our home ___16. Not expressing confidence in me when I make wrong decisions ___17. Not showing loyalty and support in spite of the wrong decisions I make ___18. Not appreciating me for the positive things that I do for her or for the family ___19. Not expressing enthusiasm for my achievements ___20. Being inattentive to me when I am talking ___21. Not taking care of her physical appearance and/or health ___22. Not being determined to develop a gentle and contented spirit, which God says is precious in His sight ___23. Failing to know or apply the biblical principles of appeal when she needs to appeal to me about certain situations ___24. Being unwilling to forgive me for past failures or hurts ___25. Being unwilling to explain her needs and fears without condemning me ___26. Being unwilling to define her responsibilities to me ___27. Discrediting or criticizing me to other people ___28. Failing to encourage me to spend time alone with the Lord ___29. Condemning me for not being the spiritual leader of our family and for not taking more spiritual responsibility ___30. Not understanding that a man’s need to spend time alone with God is not a rejection of her ___31. Being unwilling to learn contentment in her present circumstances ___32. Being ungrateful for each expression of my love or provision ___33. Not praising me for growth or achievement in areas where she wants me to improve ___34. Not visualizing how our marriage problems are helping her to achieve greater character and growth in her relationship with Jesus Christ ___35. Making sarcastic comments about me ___36. Insulting me in front of others ___37. Using careless words when she communicates with me ___38. Nagging me harshly ___39. Raising her voice at me ___40. Making critical comments that seem to have no basis ___41. Swearing at me or using foul language in my presence ___42. Correcting me in public ___43. Being tactless when she points out my weaknesses or blind spots ___44. Reminding me angrily that she warned me not to do something ___45. Having disgusted or judgmental attitudes ___46. Telling me how wonderful other men are and comparing me to them ___47. Being disrespectful to my family members and other relatives ___48. Coercing me into arguments ___49. Not praising me for something that I did well, even if I did it for her ___50. Treating me like a child ___51. Being unaware of my needs ___52. Not trusting me ___53. Not approving of what I do or how I do it in a general sense ___54. Not being interested in her own personal growth or spiritual growth ___55. Not giving me input when I really need it and ask for it ___56. Not telling me that she loves me in specific ways ___57. Having generally selfish and condemning attitudes ___58. Not attending church regularly ___59. Showing more excitement for work and other activities than for me ___60. Not being consistent with the discipline of the children ___61. Being unwilling to admit when she is wrong ___62. Being defensive when I point out one of her “blind spots” ___63. Being too busy with work and other activities ___64. Not allowing me to fail—believing that she always has to correct me ___65. Spending too much money and accumulating too much debt ___66. Not having a sense of humor and not being able to joke about things ___67. Not telling me how important I am to her ___68. Not defending me when someone else complains about me or tears me down, (especially if it is one of her relatives or friends) ___69. Not praising me to other people ___70. Ignoring my relatives and the people who are important to me ___71. Criticizing me behind my back. (This is especially painful for me if I hear about her criticism from someone else) ___72. Blaming me for the things in our relationship that are clearly her fault ___73. Becoming impatient or angry with me when I can’t keep up with her schedule or her physical stamina ___74. Acting as though she is a martyr if she goes along with my decisions ___75. Sulking when I challenge her comments ___76. Insisting upon lecturing me in order to convey the importance of her points ___77. Putting other things before me ___78. Showing more appreciation or admiration for other men than for me ___79. Criticizing or belittling my character or abilities ___80. Pushing me to do things that I think should not be done ___81. Making fun of my leadership (even in jest) ___82. Not seeking my advice or counsel on issues in her world ___83. Allowing trivial and non-essential discussions to become arguments ___84. Consistently complaining ___85. Honoring her parents above me ___86. Devaluing my input with the children ___87. Complaining about the time that I need with other men to pursue positive goals ___88. Being uninterested in my recreational interests ___89. Violating money management agreements ___90. Not generally admiring me as a man ___91. Not respecting my leadership ___92. Berating me for lack of spiritual leadership ___93. Not paying full attention while I am talking to her ___94. Interrupting me before she has heard me out ___95. Trying to get in the last word in order to win an argument ___96. Using statements such us, “You always…” and “You never…” ___97. Devaluing my vocation or work pursuits ___98. Failing to take care of her physical appearance ___99. Failing to assume her part of the responsibility to keep the house neat and clean ___100. Making fun of my physical appearance ___101. Not building me up and not encouraging me ___102. Not expressing a gentle and respectful spirit when we disagree ___103. Bringing up past failures and hurts ___104. Arguing with me or questioning me in front of the children ___105. Consistently putting the children’s needs before mine ___106. Keeping secrets from me and being untrustworthy ___107. Making excuses about the children’s disobedience ___108. Excessive spending and use of credit cards ___109. Forgetting things that matter to me ___110. Not praying for me Here's the one I think they forgot to include... 111. Not thinking my s*%t don't stank. Posted by: aranel Aug 28 2004, 05:09 PM Holy donkey testicles. So fundie men sure want to be treated like a savior, huh? It seems as though most were repeated several times in a different form. Posted by: DoubleDee Aug 28 2004, 05:41 PM This second list is worse than the first. More 5 year old behavior that blames woman for everything. It is very obvious this person knows nothing of a REAL relationship. I emailed a fundy friend of mine the blessings list and asked her for her thoughts on it. I wonder if she will respond, if she does I might post it (without her name). DD Posted by: biggles7268 Aug 28 2004, 07:32 PM holy shit that was a long damn list QUOTE ___17. Not showing loyalty and support in spite of the wrong decisions I make hahahahahahaahaha apparently fundie men need do nothing other than have a heartbeat to deserve respect and adoration huh? Posted by: Cerise Aug 28 2004, 07:57 PM QUOTE ___77. Putting other things before me Shouldn't she be putting God before her husband? Or are fundy wives given a pass on that biblical commandment so they can follow their husbands into hell? Anyway, both these lists are an insult to men and women alike. Posted by: Stargazer Aug 28 2004, 08:57 PM QUOTE (DoubleDee @ Aug 29 2004, 11:41 AM) This second list is worse than the first. More 5 year old behavior that blames woman for everything. I agree. It's sickening to think that's what all of my female friends will have to probably have to deal with - they're all Christians, every last one of them. I honestly feel sorry for them. Posted by: Tocis Aug 28 2004, 09:30 PM QUOTE (Stargazer @ Aug 28 2004, 08:57 PM) I agree. It's sickening to think that's what all of my female friends will have to probably have to deal with - they're all Christians, every last one of them. I honestly feel sorry for them. Well, fortunately not all of christianity is that fucked-up. Not that this excuses the fundie anencephalos... Posted by: Luck Mermaid Aug 28 2004, 10:09 PM QUOTE 15. Seek opportunities to serve your husband in love. Find ways to show him that he is your "lord." And Christianity says it's not kinky. to me it's always been pretty obvious that Christianity is about tying you up and mouth-raping you. Then fucking you in the ass with a rounded crucifix and making you call 'em lord and DaddyMaster. Just thinking about it is making me, um....BRB Seriously though, LOL!!! I thought I would be annoyed but GODDAMN!!! The list of husband's faults were particularly funny because they'd 'forgive' their wife for doing one thing and then 'forgive' their wife for doing the exact opposite. I also love the one about how they 'forgive' their wife for loving their children and god more than they love their husbands. Those stupid fruit of her womb, always mucking things up for good old husbands! You know what I think would be super fun? If instead of a stuipd 'wife swap', a risque" network ran something like 'fundy wife swap' and had to have two different wives in two homes being all fundamentalist and learning the other one's peculiarities... and then, I come on as the surprise guest. I black girl who's pagan and feminst and smart and artistic. Sigh. I think that would be entertaining for al lconcerned, fundies and "sane"ies alike! Posted by: challenger1 Aug 28 2004, 11:12 PM QUOTE (aranel @ Aug 27 2004, 05:02 PM) The horror. Blessing Our Husbands by Rachel Weaver Ways that a Wife Can Bless Her Husband taken from ideas given by a group of husbands. If you want a great study tool that will help you to be a submissive wife, then this is it! 1. Pray for your husband daily, not just casually ("God Bless Hubby") but for specific areas of need and blessing. 2. Thank God for your husband's strengths, for the growth you see, and for the kindnesses that he shows you and the needs he meets in your life. 3. Meditate often (at least once a week) on the Scriptures that teach your responsibilities and position in the home. 4. Listen to him. Try to really hear what he is saying when he communicates with you. 5. When he seems perplexed and troubled, do not pressure him. Support him by prayer, your presence, and words of encouragement. 6. Be ready to share your observations and insights in a meek spirit, but openly and honestly, when he asks you. You can be his best counselor. You can anchor him when he needs it most. 7. Encourage him. Do not nag him, or boss him. Do not argue with him even if you are sure he is wrong. He may have something in mind that you are not aware of or do not understand. Ask his counsel and advice. 8. Only say up-building and affirming things about your husband to others. Do not criticize him even in a joking manner. Very rarely should you find yourself sharing anything about his faults or failings, and then only with someone who is truly in a position to help. 9. Bless your husband in public. Do not apologize for his background, weaknesses or failures. This will build up your reverence for him and help establish the trust that you should both have for each other. 10. If your husband has failed, entreat him in meekness, don't exaggerate the issue or berate him. 11. Let him know that you want him to be your leader not only by what you say but by what you do. You get that message across by the way you respond to the leadership he does give you. 12. Seek to please your husband even when he does not spell out what he wants you to do. Try to determine what his heart's desire is and do it as fully as possible. 13. Teach your children to honor him, respect him, and bless him. You do this best by your own example. 14. Depend on him. Be very sensitive to areas in which he wants you to act independently. Do not run away with this responsibility. Handle it carefully. If in question, choose dependence not independence. 15. Seek opportunities to serve your husband in love. Find ways to show him that he is your "lord." 16. Be ready to make changes in your day or schedule to accommodate his needs or desires, especially if you run a home business and he needs you or the children to serve in some capacity. 17. When you need to make an appeal, prepare carefully. Choose your words wisely. Choose the time well so that you can have his attention and time to explain yourself. That way you can be sure that he understands you. When he is weary, at the end of a long day is not a good time to communicate weighty matters. 18. Always let your husband have the last word, the deciding vote, the majority rule. 19. Don't say "I told you so." 20. Show appreciation for the way he provides for you. 21. Let your husband know that you love his attention to you and his singleness of heart for you. Bask in this attention and help him relate discreetly to other women especially by letting him know what makes women respond. 22. Reserve yourself, your beauty, and your charm for him. Maintain true modesty and reserve while relating to other men. There are many, many ways to bless your husband that were not even touched here. These are just a few of the ways some husbands discussed that would make them feel honored. Women tend to think of kisses, hugs, notes in lunch boxes and a meal spent together alone. I am sure that our men appreciate all of those things. But as I typed this list that husbands had made, I was extremely impressed with their need for support and encouragement. They need and want a visible show of this. It is born out in our everyday life in the way we walk and talk, and in the way we respond to their leadership, plans, and desires. I think that many times we ladies are blind to how much contriving and planning we do to get our own way. Perhaps not consciously, but non-the-less we often tend to get what we really desire. We think we just make good valid appeals. These appeals are in order sometimes, but where is your heart? Is it where your husband can safely rest or are you always pushing the limit? Are you always going to bat for your young people and helping your husband to see why this or that is such a good idea? No doubt you do have good ideas that need to be shared, sometimes. But I am fully persuaded that I, all too often, am really blind to my husband's true desires. Let us pray for each other and meditate on how we can be women whose husbands can safely trust in. Let us be supporters, encourages and blessers. Let us affirm our husbands and be there for them. I think it is especially important as our families grow up and husbands need to make boundaries and guidelines for our young people. Often these guidelines are hard to make and even harder to implement. Let us back our husbands up and help them in their sincere desire to guide our families right. We can make their job infinitely easier and thus build a relationship of trust that deepens through the years, rather than ones that erodes as our young people grow in maturity. What a valuable legacy to pass on to posterity! Can he trust you to stand by him? Clearly this list is a violation of Rule#1 Posted by: sexkitten Aug 29 2004, 12:30 AM QUOTE (challenger1 @ Aug 28 2004, 11:12 PM) Clearly this list is a violation of Rule#1 Posted by: Yaoi Huntress Earth Aug 29 2004, 11:01 AM QUOTE (Karl @ Aug 28 2004, 01:01 PM) [QUOTE=aranel,Aug 28 2004, 02:33 PM]I bet there are some who do want to go back the old arranged marriage bullshit, where you don't get to be with your mate until your wedding night!..... ....wouldn't want to get "tempted" by that bad old K My theory that this is just a steeping stone to gradually get fundies to accept the idea of arranged marriages. Posted by: Yaoi Huntress Earth Aug 29 2004, 11:03 AM QUOTE (aranel @ Aug 28 2004, 02:30 PM) [QUOTE=Karl,Aug 28 2004, 01:01 PM] Speaking of arranged marriages, I just visited a christian forum that ENDORSED them. They tried to say that they have worked in India and China for generations...and we all know that life for women in those countries is a piece of cake! Wait, since when do fundies agree with any culture that doesn't have Christian roots? Posted by: Yaoi Huntress Earth Aug 29 2004, 11:08 AM QUOTE (sexkitten @ Aug 28 2004, 04:07 PM) That "whole heart" thing is just SO funny.... Say, have any of you guys heard of born-again virginity where a preacher (if you repent against your sexy past) will baptize you as a virgin. It sounds kinda silly to me. Posted by: Lanakila Aug 29 2004, 11:13 AM QUOTE (msthendrix @ Aug 28 2004, 07:57 PM) It gets even worse...I found this list of things fundie husbands are supposed to "forgive" their wifes for on christianity.com... "Listed below are some of the offenses that wives typically commit against their husbands. As men read through this list, it is a good idea to check the items that apply to their individual situations. Then they should use those items as a guide to specifically forgive their wives." I forgive my wife for: ___1. Expecting me to know what she needs without telling me ___2. Ignoring me ___3. Trying to be financially independent ___4. Not valuing my opinions ___5. Insisting on maintaining separate checking accounts ___6. Paying more attention to other people than to me ___7. Demonstrating greater loyalty to other people (children, parents, employer, friends, pastor, etc.) than to me ___8. Resisting my decisions in her heart ___9. Resisting my physical affection ___10. Making me feel guilty if I desire her sexually when she doesn’t desire me ___11. Being unresponsive to me sexually ___12. Withholding sex as a means of punishing me for my insensitivity or wrong behavior ___13. Taking my responsibilities into her hands in order to see to it that they get done ___14. Not respecting me as a person who is in a God-given position of authority over her ___15. Not respecting me as the God-given leader in our home ___16. Not expressing confidence in me when I make wrong decisions ___17. Not showing loyalty and support in spite of the wrong decisions I make ___18. Not appreciating me for the positive things that I do for her or for the family ___19. Not expressing enthusiasm for my achievements ___20. Being inattentive to me when I am talking ___21. Not taking care of her physical appearance and/or health ___22. Not being determined to develop a gentle and contented spirit, which God says is precious in His sight ___23. Failing to know or apply the biblical principles of appeal when she needs to appeal to me about certain situations ___24. Being unwilling to forgive me for past failures or hurts ___25. Being unwilling to explain her needs and fears without condemning me ___26. Being unwilling to define her responsibilities to me ___27. Discrediting or criticizing me to other people ___28. Failing to encourage me to spend time alone with the Lord ___29. Condemning me for not being the spiritual leader of our family and for not taking more spiritual responsibility ___30. Not understanding that a man’s need to spend time alone with God is not a rejection of her ___31. Being unwilling to learn contentment in her present circumstances ___32. Being ungrateful for each expression of my love or provision ___33. Not praising me for growth or achievement in areas where she wants me to improve ___34. Not visualizing how our marriage problems are helping her to achieve greater character and growth in her relationship with Jesus Christ ___35. Making sarcastic comments about me ___36. Insulting me in front of others ___37. Using careless words when she communicates with me ___38. Nagging me harshly ___39. Raising her voice at me ___40. Making critical comments that seem to have no basis ___41. Swearing at me or using foul language in my presence ___42. Correcting me in public ___43. Being tactless when she points out my weaknesses or blind spots ___44. Reminding me angrily that she warned me not to do something ___45. Having disgusted or judgmental attitudes ___46. Telling me how wonderful other men are and comparing me to them ___47. Being disrespectful to my family members and other relatives ___48. Coercing me into arguments ___49. Not praising me for something that I did well, even if I did it for her ___50. Treating me like a child ___51. Being unaware of my needs ___52. Not trusting me ___53. Not approving of what I do or how I do it in a general sense ___54. Not being interested in her own personal growth or spiritual growth ___55. Not giving me input when I really need it and ask for it ___56. Not telling me that she loves me in specific ways ___57. Having generally selfish and condemning attitudes ___58. Not attending church regularly ___59. Showing more excitement for work and other activities than for me ___60. Not being consistent with the discipline of the children ___61. Being unwilling to admit when she is wrong ___62. Being defensive when I point out one of her “blind spots” ___63. Being too busy with work and other activities ___64. Not allowing me to fail—believing that she always has to correct me ___65. Spending too much money and accumulating too much debt ___66. Not having a sense of humor and not being able to joke about things ___67. Not telling me how important I am to her ___68. Not defending me when someone else complains about me or tears me down, (especially if it is one of her relatives or friends) ___69. Not praising me to other people ___70. Ignoring my relatives and the people who are important to me ___71. Criticizing me behind my back. (This is especially painful for me if I hear about her criticism from someone else) ___72. Blaming me for the things in our relationship that are clearly her fault ___73. Becoming impatient or angry with me when I can’t keep up with her schedule or her physical stamina ___74. Acting as though she is a martyr if she goes along with my decisions ___75. Sulking when I challenge her comments ___76. Insisting upon lecturing me in order to convey the importance of her points ___77. Putting other things before me ___78. Showing more appreciation or admiration for other men than for me ___79. Criticizing or belittling my character or abilities ___80. Pushing me to do things that I think should not be done ___81. Making fun of my leadership (even in jest) ___82. Not seeking my advice or counsel on issues in her world ___83. Allowing trivial and non-essential discussions to become arguments ___84. Consistently complaining ___85. Honoring her parents above me ___86. Devaluing my input with the children ___87. Complaining about the time that I need with other men to pursue positive goals ___88. Being uninterested in my recreational interests ___89. Violating money management agreements ___90. Not generally admiring me as a man ___91. Not respecting my leadership ___92. Berating me for lack of spiritual leadership ___93. Not paying full attention while I am talking to her ___94. Interrupting me before she has heard me out ___95. Trying to get in the last word in order to win an argument ___96. Using statements such us, “You always…” and “You never…” ___97. Devaluing my vocation or work pursuits ___98. Failing to take care of her physical appearance ___99. Failing to assume her part of the responsibility to keep the house neat and clean ___100. Making fun of my physical appearance ___101. Not building me up and not encouraging me ___102. Not expressing a gentle and respectful spirit when we disagree ___103. Bringing up past failures and hurts ___104. Arguing with me or questioning me in front of the children ___105. Consistently putting the children’s needs before mine ___106. Keeping secrets from me and being untrustworthy ___107. Making excuses about the children’s disobedience ___108. Excessive spending and use of credit cards ___109. Forgetting things that matter to me ___110. Not praying for me Here's the one I think they forgot to include... 111. Not thinking my s*%t don't stank. Guys and gals this list sounds terrible and it is. But guess what? This was the way my marriage functioned for 16 years, or should I say disfunctioned. The wife in a marriage like this is treated as a child at best. The children don't respect her, because Dad doesn't, and she doesn't stand up to him, so the cycle goes on. Its a serious form of emotional abuse, and destroys the love of the parties involved. Or in my instance, destroyed my love for my husband. Posted by: Yaoi Huntress Earth Aug 29 2004, 11:16 AM Speaking of resisting lusts, I found this interesting line from fundy evangelist, John Akerberg's, site: In an age when sex can maim and kill, parents, teachers, and pastors must learn to evaluate sex education programs and respond in an informed, effective manner. This quick-reading handy-sized reference shows you how. I know the dangers STDs can bring, but they're acting as if the kids want to go bull fighting. BTW Luck Mermaid, I wouldn't mind watching your reality show either. Posted by: aranel Aug 29 2004, 02:10 PM QUOTE (Yaoi Huntress Earth @ Aug 29 2004, 11:03 AM) Wait, since when do fundies agree with any culture that doesn't have Christian roots? Got me. But I actually found this thread at chrisianboard.com that was arguing the "good" points of arranged marriages. One of their arguments was that women in countries such as India and China who had arranged marriages were happy. One person stated that love should not come before marriage, because you may become attached to that person and not marry them. The result would be that later on, you would give only half a heart to your future spouse. Posted by: chefranden Aug 29 2004, 02:47 PM QUOTE (Yaoi Huntress Earth @ Aug 29 2004, 01:03 PM) [QUOTE=aranel,Aug 28 2004, 02:30 PM] [QUOTE=Karl,Aug 28 2004, 01:01 PM] Speaking of arranged marriages, I just visited a christian forum that ENDORSED them. They tried to say that they have worked in India and China for generations...and we all know that life for women in those countries is a piece of cake! [/QUOTE] Wait, since when do fundies agree with any culture that doesn't have Christian roots? It hasn't been all that long since Christians everywhere arrainged marriages. It is still done in places. Posted by: Yaoi Huntress Earth Aug 29 2004, 07:13 PM QUOTE (aranel @ Aug 29 2004, 02:10 PM) [QUOTE=One person stated that love should not come before marriage, because you may become attached to that person and not marry them. The result would be that later on, you would give only half a heart to your future spouse. Given the egotistical, possesstive nature of their god, what better way to destroy love than force it into limited reserves less will be shared with others. Posted by: Lokmer Aug 30 2004, 09:02 AM The notion that love is somehow a zero-sum game is one of my major pet peeves. Christians, and to a lesser extent Americans, treat love as if it is an expendible resource, like money. Everyone has only a certain amount, and then it's used up. There is only so much of your heart to go around. Bullshit. Love is expensive, and it hurts, and it is ABOUT risk and loss, as well as joy and wonderfulness. But it is something that grows into and out of relationships, it is not this **thing** that you have to add in. People have more than one child, does that mean they only truly love one child and pretend with the rest? Obviously, some people behave this way, but a well-adjusted parent does not. Rather the love for each child is of a different character because that child is a different person, and the love grows up between the parent and the child. The same happens with friendships, and between lovers, and hopefully between spouses. The (culturally) conservative notion that there is only room in a person's life for one close bond (or maybe 2, one spouse/lover and one close same-sex friendship) is utter, unmitigated bullshit that is wrapped up in a sugarcoating of romantic claptrap. And it DESTROYS the ability to bond and love honestly, in measure that the relationship calls for. The refusal to love people, and love them wastefully, is nothing less than cowardice and selfishness, and results in a whithered heart. -Lokmer Posted by: sexkitten Aug 30 2004, 09:38 AM QUOTE (Lokmer @ Aug 30 2004, 09:02 AM) The notion that love is somehow a zero-sum game is one of my major pet peeves. Christians, and to a lesser extent Americans, treat love as if it is an expendible resource, like money. Everyone has only a certain amount, and then it's used up. There is only so much of your heart to go around. Bullshit. Love is expensive, and it hurts, and it is ABOUT risk and loss, as well as joy and wonderfulness. But it is something that grows into and out of relationships, it is not this **thing** that you have to add in. People have more than one child, does that mean they only truly love one child and pretend with the rest? Obviously, some people behave this way, but a well-adjusted parent does not. Rather the love for each child is of a different character because that child is a different person, and the love grows up between the parent and the child. The same happens with friendships, and between lovers, and hopefully between spouses. The (culturally) conservative notion that there is only room in a person's life for one close bond (or maybe 2, one spouse/lover and one close same-sex friendship) is utter, unmitigated bullshit that is wrapped up in a sugarcoating of romantic claptrap. And it DESTROYS the ability to bond and love honestly, in measure that the relationship calls for. The refusal to love people, and love them wastefully, is nothing less than cowardice and selfishness, and results in a whithered heart. -Lokmer ^^^This what I was getting at when I said, earlier, that QUOTE (sexkitten @ Aug 28 2004, 04:07 PM) That "whole heart" thing is just SO funny.... The notion that we only have so much love available, and that each romantic encounter we have diminishes our ability to love someone in the future, is ridiculous. By this way of thinking, I would have less love to give to my lover(s) now and in the future than I would have to the guy I had a crush on in high school or my first boyfriend in college. In my experience, the opposite has been true. Each deep friendship and love relationship has increased, not diminished, my capacity for love. Each relationship has given me a greater appreciation for the uniqueness of people, the things about them that are worth loving, and helped to me to see those things in more and more people. And, as I've matured, I've learned how to love honestly, without either being selfish in my love or losing my selfness. I love my friends today more than I loved my first boyfriend at the time that I was trying to cop a feel of him at a movie party our sophomore year. How much more do you think I will love my lovers? My future lovers, whoever they may be, will get more of my love than anyone ever has. And while parts of my heart may belong with the cherished memories of my past, my future lovers will feel neither deprived or unloved. And isn't that what counts? Posted by: Nivek Aug 30 2004, 09:45 AM QUOTE (challenger1 @ Aug 28 2004, 11:12 PM) QUOTE (aranel @ Aug 27 2004, 05:02 PM) The horror. Blessing Our Husbands by Rachel Weaver What a valuable legacy to pass on to posterity! Can he trust you to stand by him? Clearly this list is a violation of Rule#1 All this fuckin' time I thought Rule 1 was: "Always Keep Your Finger Off the Trigger Until Ready To Fire" What WILL those whacky fyndies think of next? n Posted by: challenger1 Aug 30 2004, 09:49 AM QUOTE (Nivek @ Aug 30 2004, 09:45 AM) Clearly this list is a violation of Rule#1[/QUOTE] All this fuckin' time I thought Rule 1 was: "Always Keep Your Finger Off the Trigger Until Ready To Fire" Bubba, You mean to tell me you've been married all these years and STILL haven't learned Rule#1?!? Posted by: Nivek Aug 30 2004, 09:57 AM QUOTE (challenger1 @ Aug 30 2004, 09:49 AM) [QUOTE=Nivek,Aug 30 2004, 09:45 AM] Clearly this list is a violation of Rule#1[/QUOTE] All this fuckin' time I thought Rule 1 was: "Always Keep Your Finger Off the Trigger Until Ready To Fire" [/QUOTE] Bubba, You mean to tell me you've been married all these years and STILL haven't learned Rule#1?!? Around haciendaFatman, Rule One is: "If she didn't CATCH you doing IT, you still can be blamed!" Kid gas, Rottie farts, Dad perfume, plantary alignment.. Something obnoxious creeps up hallway, you KNOW who gets blamed.... Kellie subs to the Femminist Zen "If a man is alone in the Woods, He is still Wrong" Rule One seems to boil own to this: "Shut up, hang on, hang tight, say nothing, 'cause yer still WRONG!" n Posted by: notblindedbytheblight Aug 30 2004, 09:59 AM QUOTE (biggles7268 @ Aug 27 2004, 05:38 PM) I couldn't even read past the first few, what kind of man would want a woman like that in the first place????????????????????????? I know...a varmit in a shroud! It's sick, but both the man and woman will claim they are happy. But that happiness is only because of suppression of the woman's needs. Sad... Posted by: notblindedbytheblight Aug 30 2004, 10:05 AM QUOTE (msthendrix @ Aug 28 2004, 04:57 PM) It gets even worse...I found this list of things fundie husbands are supposed to "forgive" their wifes for on christianity.com... "Listed below are some of the offenses that wives typically commit against their husbands. As men read through this list, it is a good idea to check the items that apply to their individual situations. Then they should use those items as a guide to specifically forgive their wives." Those types of men can kiss my atheist ass! That's disgusting! Do they give their women a prayer rug with their photo on it? Posted by: notblindedbytheblight Aug 30 2004, 10:08 AM QUOTE (Cerise @ Aug 28 2004, 07:57 PM) QUOTE ___77. Putting other things before me Shouldn't she be putting God before her husband? Or are fundy wives given a pass on that biblical commandment so they can follow their husbands into hell? Anyway, both these lists are an insult to men and women alike. Oh no...men put god before anyone else. Women put men first, then god. We must go through man because he is the head of us and god is the head...oh well, you know the rest of the crap. Posted by: challenger1 Aug 30 2004, 10:54 AM QUOTE (Nivek @ Aug 30 2004, 09:57 AM) [QUOTE=challenger1,Aug 30 2004, 09:49 AM] [QUOTE=Nivek,Aug 30 2004, 09:45 AM] Clearly this list is a violation of Rule#1[/QUOTE] All this fuckin' time I thought Rule 1 was: "Always Keep Your Finger Off the Trigger Until Ready To Fire" [/QUOTE] Bubba, You mean to tell me you've been married all these years and STILL haven't learned Rule#1?!? [/QUOTE] Around haciendaFatman, Rule One is: "If she didn't CATCH you doing IT, you still can be blamed!" Kid gas, Rottie farts, Dad perfume, plantary alignment.. Something obnoxious creeps up hallway, you KNOW who gets blamed.... Kellie subs to the Femminist Zen "If a man is alone in the Woods, He is still Wrong" Rule One seems to boil own to this: "Shut up, hang on, hang tight, say nothing, 'cause yer still WRONG!" n Sounds like a good corollary to Rule #1. Posted by: Rachelness Aug 30 2004, 11:01 AM I feel bad for any daughters these fundy couples have. How can anyone tell their daughter that she will grow up to be a wife and mother who is to be completely 100% submissive to her master and not dare have a mind of her own! I really fell very, very bad for them. Posted by: aranel Aug 30 2004, 01:17 PM QUOTE (chefranden @ Aug 29 2004, 02:47 PM) It hasn't been all that long since Christians everywhere arrainged marriages. It is still done in places. When I was about nine, my mom ordered some Usborne books from one of my school friends. The woman who she bought the books off of had just finished arranging her 18 year old daughter's marriage to a 21 year old guy in Iowa. She was also working on arranging one for her younger daughter (my friend) who was only about 10. My mother thought the woman was totally fried when she suggested that my mother arrange MY marriage for me too. Apparently my mom blew up at the woman, and we never did get our books, and my buddy never spoke to me again. This lady was an all out fundie. I remember going to a sleepover at her house. All she did was talk about how her family was a "christian family". Posted by: SmallStone Aug 30 2004, 02:23 PM And xtians think that gangsta rap demeans women? Posted by: Lalli Sep 10 2004, 03:23 PM QUOTE (sexkitten @ Aug 30 2004, 06:38 PM) In my experience, the opposite has been true. Each deep friendship and love relationship has increased, not diminished, my capacity for love. Each relationship has given me a greater appreciation for the uniqueness of people, the things about them that are worth loving, and helped to me to see those things in more and more people. If I had not been in three prior relationships, I don't think I'd be able to appreciate and love my current partner anywhere near as much as I do. I don't know if it's true for everyone, but certainly in my case, the more people I love, the greater capacity I have for love. It's as if I had to mature, through experience, from my puppyish first love and my increasingly more mature second and third loves to arrive at the warm, contented, and devoted love I have for (and get from) my current partner. Additionally, having experienced life with three other partners means I am more aware of the uniqueness of my current partner and am able to appreciate him, and certain rare but wonderful traits he has, much more. Interestingly enough, one such trait is his inacceptance of anything but complete equality in our relationship. I am unfortunately still partially wired to the "man lead, woman follow" school of thought, and it is to his credit that my partner encourages me to assert myself, make my own decisions, be independent, and speak my mind when he leaves his dirty boxers lying about the room. Posted by: Reach Sep 10 2004, 03:56 PM QUOTE (Lokmer @ Aug 30 2004, 10:02 AM) The refusal to love people, and love them wastefully, is nothing less than cowardice and selfishness, and results in a whithered heart. -Lokmer I agree, Lokmer. I believe that love needs to be lavished on people, just poured out like there is no tomorrow, becomes sometimes, for one or the other of us, there isn't. Love is always expensive. In my life, I'd say it has been outrageously costly, but I've learned that people are worth loving, whatever it takes and whatever it costs, every single time. An added bonus is that I like the person I've become trying to do just that. No regrets. Congratulations, Lalli, I know exactly what you mean. Reach Powered by Invision Power Board (http://www.invisionboard.com) © Invision Power Services (http://www.invisionpower.com)

Posted by: Ashlynn Dec 4 2004, 04:07 PM

It's too short. We need more information.

Powered by Invision Power Board (http://www.invisionboard.com)
© Invision Power Services (http://www.invisionpower.com)