Printable Version of Topic Click here to view this topic in its original format

Open Forums for ExChristian.Net > Backlash and Reactions > Leaving my Church

Posted by: DanInPA Nov 29 2004, 06:27 PM

Greetings all. I've decided that the end of the year will be the end of my church participation. My wife and I have been quite involved for the last 5 years or so. She is still an avid believer, sings on the "praise team" etc., thinks I should not be "reading that stuff". I anticipate severe intervention to try to get me to stay in the fold, mostly (I think) because our substantial weekly contribution will be cut in half. There may also be some who sincerely "care about my soul". I'd like your opinions on whether I should: 1. write a letter to the pastor and relevant members informing them of my intention. 2.just stop showing up 3.talk to the pastor and/or relevant members about my change in belief I think that any discussion will come off as a debate on christianity, which I don't really want. I mean, if they want to believe a lie, and it helps them get through life, good for them.I m not really interested in dogmatic confrontation. I don't want to try and burst their bubble. I'd just like to quietly stop participating and go on with life. Any advice/ similar experiences would be appreciated Thanks, Dan

Posted by: TexasFreethinker Nov 29 2004, 06:49 PM

Hey Dan, Good luck with this new phase in your life. As for communicating with your church members about your deconversion, the one piece of advice I'd give is to avoid treating them as a group and decide what to do seperately for each individual. For those people in the church that you'd like to continue to keep as friends, I'd suggest you take the time to explain what you're going thru and why you're leaving. Otherwise, they may think that you no longer want to continue the friendship. For the people who don't really matter to you, I'd say you don't owe them any explanation. From my experience, you can expect a wide range of responses, and you won't always get the response you expect from everyone. For example, I've had fairly superficial christians read me the riot act for leaving. And, I've had a music minister's wife act as if nothing had happened - she's still as loving and friendly as ever. You never know. I've even had a couple of people confide in me that they really don't believe either - they just attend to keep the peace with other family members, or to help them in their social standings. For people like this, your honest attempt to share with them may give them the spark they need to re-examine their own beliefs. Again, good luck.

Posted by: SmallStone Nov 29 2004, 07:48 PM

Hi Dan. If you don't explain it to the relevant individuals, your wife will be forced into doing it for you. It's not fair to put her on that spot and, if you do, the result will likely be less than ideal.

Posted by: Astreja Nov 29 2004, 07:51 PM

I would just stop going, and then release information on a "need to know" basis. My own experience: In my wanderings I spent about ten years with a high-maintenance Buddhist organization (Lots and lots of meetings, intense home practice, and frequent requests for $$$). About eight years in, I started to lose interest and went to fewer and fewer events. Somewhere in there, I had a radical change of philosophy and stopped showing up altogether. A few months later, one of the leaders phoned to inquire about me. At that point I told her straight out that my beliefs had changed and that I would not be coming back. She wrote me a letter a month or so later. I burned it. Once in a very long while I run into someone from the group. (Two people in six years out... We really do run in different circles socially!) So I didn't really lose too much in the way of friendship. Astreja

Posted by: reusablepheonix Nov 29 2004, 10:56 PM

HI DAN, hey when I left a church I was involved in for about 8 years ...I wrote a multi-page letter and mailed it to about 40 families in my church... . anyways I thought I was real articulate,well researched, lots of references,scholarly, polite, well mannered in the letter, but still it pissed everyone off, and it backfired, and it was one of the stupidest things I ever done... I was nieve enough to think people would understand if I just explained it in a letter.... So anyway NOTHING positive happened as a result of me sending letters, I was demonized by everyone, and I even got a bunch of unsigned letters calling me the Spirit of the AntiChrist, and that I would burn extra-crispy hot for sending my wife and daughter to hell too there is no way to explain to christians why you are leaving, without them taking it out of context.. I mean there is just NO WAY. These same people that shunned me, I spent so much time with them, at least 3 days a week for 8 years, I thought they were my friends...but it was entirely conditional friendships. If I could do it all over again, I would have just left and not said anything, except that I was going to a new church. All your christian friends you have at church...trust me it all changes after you deconvert..its better just to leave it alone I think and move on. Even your wife should think about going to a new church..because you have deconverted, all the christians will try to convice her that she is miserable in her marriage, that she is being the "spiritual leader"... She will recieve all the attention and compassion from the church, which will have a negative impact on your marraige if your wife starts to beleive them and starts to see you in a bad light.

Posted by: noendinsight Nov 30 2004, 08:45 PM

Well when I quit showing up, no one really inquired on why. You may want to write a letter, make copies and if someone asks why you aren't showing up or aren't christian-Just give them that letter. I wouldn't bother with those people that are way over the top fundamentals. Just tell them that you have thought about it, don't believe it, and let that be it. Or just ignore them completely. Don't allow yourself to be dragged through useless debates that will go nowhere with fundies. Good luck!

Posted by: Wandering~but~not~lost Dec 2 2004, 04:17 PM

well, in my case i just stopped going to church. But I never did anything besides sit in the pews and try not to doze off, so i probably wasn't missed. If you're well-known around the place and people would probably ask about your not being there, it would be a better idea to explain. And if they start sending mail or anything, just chuck the letters straight into the fireplace or something. not worth your time.

Posted by: DanInPA Dec 3 2004, 03:57 AM

Thanks everyone, I'll let you know how it goes. Dan

Posted by: AggieNostic Dec 3 2004, 11:54 AM

QUOTE (DanInPA @ Nov 29 2004, 10:27 PM) 1. write a letter to the pastor and relevant members informing them of my intention; 2.just stop showing up; 3.talk to the pastor and/or relevant members about my change in belief. I think that any discussion will come off as a debate on christianity, which I don't really want. I mean, if they want to believe a lie, and it helps them get through life, good for them.I m not really interested in dogmatic confrontation. I don't want to try and burst their bubble. I'd just like to quietly stop participating and go on with life. I'm struggling with this myself in a different way. My oldest sister has ideas in her head as to why I became an agnostic. I became aware of how deep-seated her ideas were this past Thanksgiving. I have been tempted to write a letter to her to "clear the air," but it's hard to do so without also writing about why her beliefs are wrong. In other words, it will come across as "debating Christianity," which I have to admit would not be entirely unwelcome. Call it pride, but I've always had this itch to "prove them wrong" (or "prove I'm right"). I've managed to suppress this urge for twenty years. But, now that my nieces and nephews are no longer children (with one of them deciding to attend my alma mater -- Jerry Falwell's Liberty University), I'm more tempted than ever to come out with guns ablazin'. But then I ask myself: For what? I have a good relationship with my family. They don't push their beliefs on me and they mostly keep those "annoying little comments" to themselves. So, why ruin a good arrangement in the name of pride (if that is what it is)? Besides, I'm already starting to see a liberalization in their attitudes. For example, they are no longer adamant in their opposition to community outreach (oh, the horrible "Social Gospel"). For those who are not aware of fundamentalist ideology, your # 1 priority is to get the maximum number of people to say that magical "Sinner's Prayer." Ecumenicalism and helping people in their materially need is secondary at best. Many fundamentalist preachers still refuse to reach out -- except when it comes to establishing clinics to deal with their pet political issues (abortion, homosexuality). I'm inclined to leave well enough alone and hope that the liberalizing trend continues. Then, the biggest challenge will be to resist the urge to say, "I told you so." For example, my brother-in-law now realizes that most people who are homeless are not there by choice (he discovered that hands-on, working at a soup-kitchen). Liberals have been saying that for years. But, liberals are godless liars. So, he'd have none of it. I guess I should be happy that he finally discovered the truth about something and leave it at that.

Posted by: The Acid Washed Messiah Dec 7 2004, 12:23 PM

I'd personally talk to the pastor and let him know that you've sold your soul to the devil for a harem of big-titted, dancing girls between 18 and 29 and that you have another contract if he wants to get in on the action.

Posted by: Pseudonym Dec 13 2004, 02:12 AM

If you no longer wish to attend church services, or adhere to a particular ideology of faith in general, it is your decision and you ARE NOT obliged to justify your decision to anyone. Just make that plain to the person or persons you feel have a right to know. If they can't accept that, then quite frankly they aren't worth losing sleep over.

Posted by: atheist_ewtcoma Dec 13 2004, 09:59 AM

Is this not America? What ever heppend to the prusuit of happiness? From my own past experinces, I have learned the hardway that you won't be able to convers with these people on any type of logical base. That is just the nature of the beast. But I may be wrong. Letters and stuff my just stire them up and them being christians and all, Im sure their reaction will not be positive. But I guess it depends on how liberal or conservative your church is. I guess the worst that can happen is they get in your spouses head and turn her against you. best of luck

Posted by: formerfundie Dec 15 2004, 04:50 PM

I went to the same church for 10 years. There was NO WAY I'd have been able to explain what happened to me to my former ministers--NO WAY. Nor would I have been able to explain it to anyone else w/o feeling like I was somehow trying to oppose their way or recruit them over to how I started to think. I now have too many unanswered questions, and they'd make my head spin trying to justify things with circular logic. I looked at it this way--I left the way I came in--I just did it. I didn't have to explain showing up at that church when I showed up over 10 years ago--why should I have to explain not showing up at that church? Other than losing the little of my tithe money that came in to them, and a warm body from a chair that was far too easily replaced, what difference did it make really to anyone but me? I JUST LEFT. That's it. Good luck with however you decide to handle this, Dan. Everyone is different. Nice to have met ya. FF

Posted by: spamandham Dec 17 2004, 11:44 PM

I have to agree with FF on this one. You are better off to simply leave and not explain it to anyone unless they ask. Since your wife is still involved, you might consider bald faced lying to those who ask, unless they are really close to you. If you have close relations there, let's be honest here, you are going to lose their friendship most likely, unless they are also harboring hidden doubts. I have happily discovered that many of the people I am close to, have doubts and do not hold my rejection of faith against me. But, I have lost a couple of friends in the process, and have been rejected by some family members. My biggest concern would be your wife. If you have children, {she and} they are your only real concerns. If push comes to shove, anyone else can go to hell generally.

Posted by: Waynus Dec 18 2004, 01:37 PM

I too have a similiar chioce to make. I still have some belief (panentheist) but it does not fit in with the church belief structure. Leaving and keeping friend is my priority. My wife only goes for the freindships and has no intention of leaving. Which ever way you look at it this is the hardest part of leaving it all behind.

Posted by: nivek Dec 22 2004, 12:20 PM

Dan, I just walked off. Walked out door, left the friends, a potentila spouse, and a lotta *suppport* and "assembly love" for a Job and the open road... This was after many years, study, and discussion with the preacher and the elders... Being a single cat then made things easier.. Packed up the dawg, the scooter, sent my possesions via truck to where I was headed and left.. When you make your break finally, don't be too dramatic. If you have to talk to anyone, or discuss things, make sure you stay on top. don't allow them to box you in, or cause you to become defensive of your chosen directions. I wouldn't put shit in writing.. "Anything you say (or write) WILL be held against you" eventually. As you see when apologists show up here at ExC, they'll use every damnned argument trying to recliam your body and soul for the church'n'Jebus... Keep it simple, and don't allow them to bullshit you... Let us know how stuff goes.. n

Posted by: DanInPA Dec 22 2004, 01:02 PM

Thanks to all who chimed in. It's going to be rougher than I thought. Not because of the churchies. If they don't like it, pisson 'em! But.....reminded my wife last Sunday of my intentions, and she got REALLY upset. Practically in tears. I don't know if she'd be embarrassed or what, but I let it go. Thanks, Dan

Posted by: Reach Dec 27 2004, 08:00 AM

Hi Dan! I've read through this thread several times and never had an adequate response (nothing to add, really) other than to say I think you've been given excellent input here. People never cease to amaze me. Like TF mentioned, we are sometimes surprised by the responses of others to our earth-shaking news. Sometimes, those we think may accept and understand us go into fits of outrage, shock and denial. Others we think might be outraged offer acceptance beyond our wildest dreams. Personally, I would limit any output of information to a need-to-know basis. As for myself, I simply walked out of the church with my family (and our weekly tithe), but for different reasons than yours. We remained Christian. A few years later, I walked out of the faith, after years of personal study and careful reflection, counting the cost in familial relationships, which I knew would be considerable. To say it was an agonizing decision would be a gross understatement but my integrity would not let me choose any other path. I am sorry for the difficulty arising in your relationship over your change in faith. I'm sure your wife is grieved over this. I admire your willingness to leave this aside, for a season, it seems. In time, I hope your wife will come to terms with where you are at this time. I found it helpful to say to some of those I knew and loved, "I don't know where I'll be tomorrow but this is where I'm at now." I think this softened the message a bit and left the praying crowd with some sense that I was open to changes in my beliefs and so all their hopes were not dashed. Let them pray, if it makes them feel better. Peace to you as you continue to face this challenge. I wish you and your wife all the best during this transition. Reach

Posted by: PaulM Feb 12 2005, 10:04 PM

QUOTE (DanInPA @ Nov 29 2004, 09:27 PM) I'd like your opinions on whether I should: 1. write a letter to the pastor and relevant members informing them of my intention. 2.just stop showing up 3.talk to the pastor and/or relevant members about my change in belief Yeah, I remember going through this one. I wrote a letter. With the perspective of years, I can look back at how serious an issue I took it to be at the time. If I could go back and advise my self, I'd say that it doesn't matter how you do it. Those people and the silly things the belive are not important. My efforts to do it "right" were the last remnants of attempting to participate - I wanted to act in accordance with the church internal structure. How would I (then) have advised a person to leave the Mormons, or some weird group? I would have said "what's the issue? Just leave. I feel the same way now about you leaving your church. How will they take it? Who cares. It's just not your problem anymore. (We need a smiley that has a "just my 2c" theme).

Posted by: PaulM Feb 12 2005, 10:09 PM

QUOTE (DanInPA @ Dec 22 2004, 04:02 PM) But.....reminded my wife last Sunday of my intentions, and she got REALLY upset. Practically in tears. Oh dear. That does make it a little more difficult. I have for some time wanted to use the line "Mum, I'm sorry that the things you believe distress you", but mum hasn't trued to guilt-trip me. As for the wife: I dunno. "Honey, I understand that this is difficult for you, but I can't belive things that I think are not true". What's her problem, anyway? Is she worries aboutn your sould, or is it just that she will lose face (as the chinese put it) in fromt of the other women? (PS: you know why women go to the bathroom in packs? To tabluate their points and work out whose winning.)

Posted by: Reach Feb 15 2005, 10:21 AM

Dan, I'm just wondering how things are going for you. It's been awhile. I hope all is well. You know I'd pray for you, if that would help. Warm thoughts, Reach

Posted by: cu_mhorrigan Feb 16 2005, 08:52 AM

Hey dan, well as a guy that still has a spouse in the church I can only tell you that it's not going to get better right away. Living with the woman is not going to be easy for a while because now she will start with the harrassment, the guilt trips and everything possible to make your life difficult. It is not because she hates you (Though it feels like it) but rather in her mind you just "Need to get back in touch with Jeeeeezuzzzzz". Epect to wake up late at night and find her "Laying hands" on you. (And not in the fun way) Or making little snide remarks every time something goes wrong. (See! I told you something would happen now that you left church!) I guess the point is that if you are serious about doing this, expect repercussions.

Posted by: DanInPA Feb 16 2005, 12:53 PM

Thanks again everyone. Well, I gave in to her pleading and am still attending even though she knows I think it's a bunch of shit. She told her music director I was considering quitting, the lady went right to the pastor out of "concern". Pastor hasn't said a word about it....yet. That may change when they realize our $ giving has been halved! Sitting there tries my patience, and I imagine one day soon I'll have had enough. I check in daily here at ExC, and really appreciate having a place like this. Thanks to Dave and all the posters. Dan

Posted by: Fweethawt Feb 16 2005, 10:12 PM

QUOTE (DanInPA @ Feb 16 2005, 03:53 PM) Sitting there tries my patience, and I imagine one day soon I'll have had enough. This is just an idea... While you're sitting there in church, take notes on the message being given on that particular day. Then when you get home, or when you have some free time, go over your notes and write down your thoughts on where the preacher contradicted himself, said something that is totally unbiblical, or said something that is an outright lie. Present that to your wife and say, "This is why I don't want to go." I don't see this as immediately aiding your situation, but at least you'll have an opportunity of opening up her eyes.

Posted by: cu_mhorrigan Feb 17 2005, 09:04 AM

Dan, While noone can fault you for "giving in" to your wife's pressure (hey, youre the one who has to sleep with her) I think that you should realise that you need to attend church or leave the church not for her but for you. I did the whole "Going just to shut her up" and to be honest it did nothing but make me resent her more. I think the issue is not so much trying to convince her. that was something I made almost a doctrine when I left. I did not want her comming with Me. I explained to my wife that I have no intention of forbidding her or hindering her church attendance one bit. I did not want it said that I dragged her out of church so I explained to her that she was an adult and was free to do what ever the heck she wanted. It wasnt easy (Still isnt) but eventually for the sake of your own sanity you need to leave and elt her know that it is nothing personal against HER. (She wont believe it at first, but she will eventually get the hint.)

Posted by: Pseudonym Feb 18 2005, 03:00 AM

Although this is obviously a complicated situation, and I can but only applaud your dedication to your loved ones, the raw facts of the matter are that if they love and respect you as you do them, they will tolerate and furthermore understand how you feel even if they do not necessarily agree with your perspectives. Furthermore, why should you exist exclusively just as reinforcement for their religious or socio-cultural prejudices and preconceptions? You are who you are; you think as you do, and if you comprehend fully why you entertain the perspectives you have, then you have no need to apologise for them in any way, shape or form.

Posted by: Clergicide Feb 18 2005, 10:45 AM

I think a little psychological warfare may be in order.. Given your fear that she will think this is something personal against her, I would proceed as follows: Pretend to be unwell next sunday, and just not up for going out. (Anyone that's been practicing this since gradeschool should be a master by now) She may be a little miffed, but if you look miserable enough she won't push it. Next, when she leaves, start preparing something really sweet for her when she comes home. Some sort of nice loving surprise, something that will show how much you care, and that you've been busy for the last hour. Hell, spend the whole rest of the day after that spoiling her with your attention. Then see what she says next week when you don't want go. This fuses the ideas "I don't go to church" and "I love you" through action. If that's her major point of contention, you should be golden.

Posted by: Lord Umbra Feb 18 2005, 08:07 PM

Not a pretty picture, Dan. I feel your pain. I remember how I felt when I was breaking the news to my so-called Christian spouse. (I say "so-called" because we had both quit church attendance. Me for two years, and she for several months. But I digress.) I knew my wife would freak out (and she did), but I was adamant in my non-belief. She could keep pretending all she wanted, but I was done playing the hypocrite. It was quite frankly making me sick. It took her a few days to get over being married to an atheist, but once she realized that nothing was going to change in our lives, she accepted the new reality with equanimity. I'd be willing to bet that YOUR wife is simply afraid that her world will fall apart, as this "evil atheist" she's now married to begins to behave immorally, and seeks to undermine society. Your job, then is to assure her that YOU have not changed. Morally, you're the same stand-up guy she married. You simply don't want to play the "God" game anymore. That's the challenge all non-religionists face. I'm afraid, Dan, that this is the best course available to you. Playing the hypocrite will only cause resentment and confusion. For BOTH of you. How strong are you? How strong is your marriage? If your wife considers divorce, remind her gently that "God hates divorce", and then turn to 1 Corinthians 7:13-14. If she is truly a "bible-believing Christian" then this here is your trump card. If she insists on destroying your marriage, then you have grounds to suggest that SHE may be an atheist as well! If the Corinthians verse doesn't do the trick, just tell her that you don't want to be struck dead in church like Ananias and Saphira in Acts 5 for lying to the Holy Ghost! Just teasing. But seriously, this is your call. None of us are experts. YOU'RE the one who has to live with your decision. Just make sure it's an informed one that YOU are willing and able to live with.

Powered by Invision Power Board (http://www.invisionboard.com)
© Invision Power Services (http://www.invisionpower.com)