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Open Forums for ExChristian.Net > Debating with Christians > Freedom of opinion


Posted by: Saviourmachine Nov 4 2004, 06:51 AM
In America
I picked this line from Karl to Rameus from one of the topics on this forum. I'd like to know how things work in America (it's often so "non-europian"). And if I'm in the opportunity I'd like to discuss how the things work overhere, Holland. In that way my chauvinistic tendencies will be restricted to this thread. wicked.gif
QUOTE (Karl @ Oct 29 2004, 07:34 PM)
QUOTE (Rameus)
....and am now serving it as Christ Kool Aid for all to enjoy...
I'd be a little careful about using this type of phraseology, Rameus. We are both aware of the mental state of fundies, after seeing the Xtian snake-handlers of Appalachia die, the Deanna Laney tragedy, the "exorcism" smothering, etc.. We don't want any fundies that may be lurking to get any ideas about trying to prove Mark 16:18, etc..... we all know what happened at Jonestown.....
Yes, I agree a little, choose your opponents carefully when expressing yourself.

In Holland
The day before yesterday another freethinker in Holland is shot. The grand-grand-grand-son of Vincent van Gogh, the painter.
QUOTE (Van Gogh)
The room erupted after I had called Mr. Dyab Aboe Jah Jah Allah's chief propagandist for Belgium, a "Pimp of the Prophet"
That's standard vocabulary for Van Gogh (beside goat fucker). I hope that freedom of speech will be maintained like this: http://www.militantislammonitor.org/article/id/89.
1) Would such a public discussion be possible in your country?

'Gedogen'
It's a summary of our society. By the way do you know that John Kerry would have won in Holland with 75%? The concept of 'gedogen' is explained in that article too.
QUOTE
If there is a social matter that will not allow a concrete solution, the Dutch will "gedogen" it. The typical example for foreigners are prostitution and "soft drugs." The Dutch know that these are never going to go away. Everybody knows that. The Dutch acknowledge it officially.
It's not legal, it's not illegal... (reminds me of theist/atheist discussion, Neil WendyDoh.gif).
2) Do you've things in America that are tolerated - and aren't as such merely illegal?

Posted by: notblindedbytheblight Nov 4 2004, 07:52 AM
Hell, it's illegal in Oklahoma to drive barefooted...I do it all the time. woohoo.gif

So you might say, in certain cases, that what is tolerated is already illegal, but not enforced.

Maybe the same?

Posted by: Reach Nov 4 2004, 08:04 AM
QUOTE (notblindedbytheblight @ Nov 4 2004, 07:52 AM)
Hell, it's illegal in Oklahoma to drive barefooted...I do it all the time. woohoo.gif

Same here. FrogsToadBigGrin.gif

It's safer to drive barefoot (where your feet are more sensitive to the pedals) than to drive with rigid, thick-soled boots.

Posted by: Saviourmachine Nov 4 2004, 08:07 AM
QUOTE (NBBTB)
Hell, it's illegal in Oklahoma to drive barefooted...I do it all the time.
O, yeah. That was you. Barefooted. wicked.gif Yes, I remember you had it in your quote, Reach. Do you get fined if they catch you?

Posted by: Reach Nov 4 2004, 08:11 AM
QUOTE (Saviourmachine @ Nov 4 2004, 08:07 AM)
QUOTE (NBBTB)
Hell, it's illegal in Oklahoma to drive barefooted...I do it all the time.
O, yeah. That was you. Barefooted. wicked.gif Yes, I remember you had it in your quote, Reach. Do you get fined if they catch you?

I know you were asking NBBTB, but I thought I'd answer as well. Caught and fined for driving barefoot? I've been caught, but not fined... not yet.

I carry a pair of shoes with me just in case I'm pulled over. And I can slip into them really quickly. I refuse to allow the law to force me to wear shoes in my own vehicle.

Posted by: notblindedbytheblight Nov 4 2004, 09:27 AM
QUOTE (Reach @ Nov 4 2004, 08:11 AM)
QUOTE (Saviourmachine @ Nov 4 2004, 08:07 AM)
QUOTE (NBBTB)
Hell, it's illegal in Oklahoma to drive barefooted...I do it all the time.
O, yeah. That was you. Barefooted. wicked.gif Yes, I remember you had it in your quote, Reach. Do you get fined if they catch you?

I know you were asking NBBTB, but I thought I'd answer as well. Caught and fined for driving barefoot? I've been caught, but not fined... not yet.

I carry a pair of shoes with me just in case I'm pulled over. And I can slip into them really quickly. I refuse to allow the law to force me to wear shoes in my own vehicle.

Me too. When I do have to wear shoes to drive, I usually end up throwing my daughter against the seat because I stepped on the gas too hard! GONZ9729CustomImage1539775.gif

I don't even think the police officers know it's illegal!

Posted by: Saviourmachine Nov 4 2004, 11:29 AM
QUOTE (Reach)
[shoes] And I can slip into them really quickly.
QUOTE (NBBTB)
I don't even think the police officers know it's illegal!
Yes, that's not exactly the same I think. Differences with 'gedogen' in e.g. prostitution:
  • You can't get fined for prostitution, it's not illegal.
  • Running a brothel is not exactly the same as a bakery. Although it's legal (you've to pay tax e.g.), it's still not really respected. It's also legalized, because this gives the opportunity to assure the savety of the employees. To compare it with 'barefooted driving', a cop wouldn't say anything about you not wearing shoes, but others will, out of personal convictions.
  • Official guidelines towards the cops to merely give a warning in stead of fining (the opposite of not knowing). That's a kind of "positive toleration" too. With a fight, the appearance of cops is most often sufficient. It's officially written down, it are conscious decisions to refrain from judging.
  • In this way politics don't have to give their opinion about every matter. That's pragmatic, in the case that it's not really known or generally accepted that 'barefooted driving' is 'unethical'/'irresponsible'.
Don't confuse it with topics like gay marriage, because that's definitely legal overhere.

Posted by: notblindedbytheblight Nov 4 2004, 11:51 AM
Allrighty then!

Really, I'm not sure if there is anything here like that then.

Prostituion is legal here in some states and not in others. So, it matters if you are looking at the entire US or the states individually.

I think it's more black and white. It's legal in this state and not in that state kind of thing.

Just don't take your hooker across the state's border! FrogsToadBigGrin.gif

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