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Open Forums for ExChristian.Net > Rants and Replies > FWEE NEEDS HELP!

Posted by: Fweethawt Feb 13 2005, 08:50 PM

An acquaintance of mine has some very good reasons to believe that she is being stalked. Along with the fear and confusion that comes along with thinking that you are another person's target, when she asked me for advice on how to handle it, I think she might have left out a few details.

After giving her advice from the best of my knowledge, I suggested that I could start a thread here at ExC in order to possibly bring to light some other suggestions from other board members. She agreed to allow me to do this.

So, here is what I'm going to do. I'm going to post all of the information that I have on the subject, you people read it, and advise as best as you can. Also, if you have any further questions, post those also since this person will eventually read the thread, and get back to me with the answers to your questions.

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

QUOTE (EDITED E-mail #1)

I have potentially have a very bad problem....

I have an internet stalker....he has located where I live....where I work....etc.

He scares me real bad and I'm not sure what to do.

How could he have tracked me like that?

How can I do the same to him so I know who he is and where he might be coming from?

I don't know very many people ...but I thought you might be able to point me in the right direction.

Thanks

QUOTE (EDITED - My Response)

I wish I knew exactly what kind of advice you give to you, but I don't. About the only thing I can do is give you a couple of suggestions, and then you take it from there.

First, you should do whatever you can to remove any pictures of yourself that you may have placed on the web. Secondly, you could ask the Webmaster(s) of whatever forums you may attend to completely delete your profile(s) and posts. Third, you can quit using any sort of instant messenger names that this person is contacting you through. (You can always create new usernames and just contact the people that you want) How about your e-mail? Change your e-mail address, and start all over by just giving the new address out to those who you want to have it.

I think you get the idea. As far as the internet is concerned, all you have to do is disappear and you can easily come back as someone else.

I don't know how far this stalker has gone in real life, and you didn't exactly give any indication that this person is an immediate threat, so I can only suggest that you use your better judgement on as to whether or not the police need to be notified.

Now, as far as tracking this person down yourself, I don't know how to help you there, and I really wouldn't suggest that you do that.

Personally, my better judgement tells me that you should disappear from the net, and call the police. If you are married, I would think that you probably told your husband about this. If not, he should be aware of it until this gets cleared up.

Also, if you would like more input from other people on this matter, I could easily start a thread at ExC asking for advice.

I wish that I could be of more assistence, but I can't think of anything else to say right now. Sorry.

Let me know if you want that thread started.

QUOTE (EDITED E-mail #2)

I couldn't get back any sooner. If you could create a post like that for me I'd appreciate it. I think that if I knew whether he was close or far away it would ease my mind a bit.

I'm a bit afraid to just disappear....I don't know yet what to do...

Thanks....

I'm going to try to do some research as well over the weekend.

Thanks again...

QUOTE (EDITED My next response)

Okay.

When I suggested that you 'disappear', I simply meant that you disappear from the Internet by deleting your NET identities and creating new ones. I didn't mean for you to literally disappear as in, jump in your car and hit the road. <snicker>

I'll put that thread together, and when I get finished with it, I'll e-mail a link to you so that you can keep an eye on it. Keep in mind, the other members are probably going to have some further questions that I won't be able to answer due to lack of information. So, if there are any questions in the thread, you will have to give the answers to me so that I can post them.

So everybody, this is where it's at so far.

Do you have any other suggestions or advice?

Posted by: Clergicide Feb 13 2005, 08:58 PM

If what you're looking for is to pinpoint someone's location, phone number, school and work background and get aerial photos of their house etc. PM me and we'll discuss the matter.

Posted by: nivek Feb 13 2005, 09:05 PM

Fwee...

Too little info to work off of at moment.

Generally, living in "Condition Orange", awareness of persons and surroundings a good way to stay alert.

Need to know what threat the *stalker* has presented. Simply saying "I KNOW where you live and I'm coming to get you" isn't true.
Has she made the *authorities* aware of her predicement?
Cops, ISP tech heads and those of we techically aware here at ExC need to have mo' info.

If your correspondent doesn't yet own some form of protective arm, ensure she does so, quickly. If you are close enuff to ensure she is trained, even briefly, then take care of it. If not, contact me and I'll find an Instructor close to her area.

Just PM'd you my cell number, call me if needed.

n

Posted by: Cerise Feb 13 2005, 09:10 PM

Save every bit of evidence you have of this person's threatening activity towards yourself, then take it to the police and ask their advice on what to do. In the meantime, get yourself some personal protection and learn how to use it.

Posted by: Voyager Feb 13 2005, 09:12 PM

I don't know how to deal with this, but I found a website that might help: http://www.advicemeant.com/stalker/

Also, Nivek's advice about getting a weapon is a good idea. The more normal people that are armed, the fewer criminals we all have to worry about.

Posted by: jjacksonRIAB Feb 13 2005, 09:42 PM

I've got some advice.

There's nothing you can do now if this person knows your address. I had a whole list of suggestions to keep your privacy protected, but to be sure there is no way to do it short of divorcing yourself completely from the system. It's a nasty byproduct of this information age.

But you can always make sure you are somewhat protected in the future. Do a http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=internet+privacy+tips on internet privacy and you will find numerous documents related to that.

Now that the stalker has your information, your best move is to first document everything and second take steps to protect yourself. Learn how to use personal protection (such as mace, a tazer, or a handgun) and some basic self-defense techniques. Install a webcam on your property. They cost under $20 and you can find software on the internet to basically sets them up as security systems and they can alert you through the internet to any movement they detect (read the instructions on how to password protect them); they can even page you! Very useful in court.

Carry a cellphone with you at all times. One little known thing about cellphones is a company cannot shut off 911 service even if the phone account is shut down; you can often find cheap cellphones at goodwill and salvation army and you don't have to activate them (I've seen them for $1-5) - make sure they still work and aren't outdated.

Once you begin to outwit those who would do you harm by taking your security into your hands, your sense of desparation disappears and is replaced with a plan.

After working in the security field and being threatened by numerous people on the job, I took steps to protect myself. In fact, now if someone threatens even the worst thing they can think of against me I will continue to give them my name and address. I've given many people that information, and still no one has showed up.

(I wonder if presenting them with my shooting range targets had anything to do with it?)

Never give in to fear.

Posted by: Challenger1 Feb 13 2005, 10:30 PM

QUOTE

Never give in to fear.

Best advice yet. The foundation for any successful defense.

All my hopes for your friend, Fwee.

Posted by: nivek Feb 13 2005, 11:13 PM

Mental cogs oiled, brain supplied with a fresh hot pot of coffee:

Various thoughts as my work weary thinker tries to find the clutch and slip in to gear:

This can be a long haul of time problem.

Prepare for shit to happen for a long time until things are resolved. Things in Real_Life unlike TV do not get solved in an hour's worth of programming.

If "Friend" cannot feel secure in location in which *she* is in NOW, move to another location. Trusted friend, relative, someone within her scope of living that can make room for she, kids, pets and whatever living gear she needs.

Leave little at last place of residence that can be of immediate use of the stalker.
Personal articles of clothing are like *gold* to the perverted sorts, leave NOTHING of her undies anywhere stalker can find them.... Not in garbage, no in the house, nothing that can be used as a *totem*.

Understand the word ALWAYS from here to eternity:

ALWAYS have your keys to car and living quarters IN YOUR POSSESSION. Under NO circumstances do you leave a key in a place it can be stolen or duplicated. do NOT loan your vehicle or anything more personal than a "goodmorning, howsthecoffee?" to any one.

ALWAYS have your ID and personal things like a purse, handbag, wallet under immediate supervision. Under no circumstances allow any personal numbers be allowed *out*.

Change your phone number tomorrow morning (it is 2250PST now my time). Get Caller ID. Obtain a cell phone and an extra battery. It will remain with you as it is glued to you until this is resolved. Keep number totally private. It is your life link OUT, not for for Uncle Fred and Aunt Frannie to call you..

Don't buy a cutsie, flippery, lighted, zippity do da phone. Make this one *battle worthy*, it may be your only weapon in hand.

You WILL share that cell number with one or two trusted friends, those whom you can trust not to blab or give it out. They can help you stay *in contact* with World by calling at certain arranged times.

ALWAYS keep a fully, freshly charged battery in said phone.

Have a Maglight handy, fresh batteries and replacement bulbs where you KNOW where they are.

ALWAYS have a bright flashlight on your person. NOT attached to keys! You may need to use keys AND lighjt at same time.. Shot cord on light or ring may prevent that from happening.

Find an inexpensive One Million candle power (or greater) handheld light for house. If power goes down, or you gotta *light shit up*, the light is easiest way to so do.

Find a friend who is willing to spend time with you and is alert and awake enough to help you cover times when you gota rest.. If you can't find a *safe place*, have SEVERAL friends stay over with you.

Most *stalkers* are gutless assholes who prey on those whom they can frighten.. if you are in place where you are safe, have support and are reasonahly protected, then he'll leave you alone.

If you must, hire Security.. Cats like JJ and I have worked cases like this prior, doing a walking watch on a person's home when they have been threatened. gonna cost some sheckles, but its worth it so you can sleep and Fido doesn't get a load of poisoned 'burger..

Call the local firearms dealer/gun store. Get name of a GOOD competent Firearms Instructor. Make calls, see **IF** a firearm, shortgun or longgun is right for you and your situations. If so, then consider taking on the responisbility of owning a firearm..

ALWAYS bepared to use whatever Forceit takes to get this asshole away from you.

If you live in a jurisdiction where lethal force is not *a good thing*, remember that "Judged by 12 beats carried by 6".

If you don't have, get even the smallest breed of shit eatin', yaps at everythin', clown about town yappy mutt hound.. If you prefer a larger breed do so.. But even a *little dog* makes more noise than "no dawg at'all.."

Date, notate, and log every single thing you can with this creep. Contact your District Attorney and Cops. DA has the ability to lean on local Fuzz and make your case *their best interest*.

Fwee has my cell phone number. Call me. Have Friends and Compatriots Nation and Worldwide in the *Business*.
If things get shitty and you just can't handle things, call, there are those of we who take this kind of thing as "Tune Up Time" professionally..
It is always fun to fly into someplace with baggage that is awfully heavy..

Keep wits about you. Try to have things to do other than watch TV and worry.
May be time for that vacation you've needed..

Stay in contact. Don't let concern and worry beat you into a puddle of emotions and headaches..

n, Armed, Locked, Loaded, Easy to Piss Off, Attitudinally Horrible Towards shitheads..

Posted by: Reach Feb 14 2005, 04:13 AM

The one site I normally recommend is http://www.stalkingvictims.com/ which offers its own discussion board. Great place to talk with real people in an open, relaxed atmosphere.

Question: Is she being stalked or harassed? That's the first thing I would try to determine, so she can deal with the problem accordingly. I would not hesitate to get a restraining order, if the situation calls for it, but I most assuredly would not depend on it for protection.

She might also check out http://www.ncvc.org/src/ and this Fact Sheet from http://www.privacyrights.org/fs/fs14-stk.htm:

Are You Being Stalked? Tips For Protection

Being stalked is a life changing process. Stalking victims are in a state of constant fear 24 hours a day. The ongoing nature of stalking can cause traumatic psychological damage to the victim.

According to 1994 statistics, one million people in the United States have been stalked. High-profile cases of celebrities being stalked have raised the public's awareness to this crime. But the majority of stalking victims are ordinary people, mostly women, who are being pursued and threatened by someone with whom they have had a prior relationship. Approximately 80% of stalking cases involve women stalked by ex- boyfriends and former husbands. Some stalking cases involve ex- employees who are obsessed with the rejection of having lost a job.

Are there any laws against stalking?

California was the first state to pass an anti-stalking law in 1990 in response to the stalking and murder of actress Rebecca Schaeffer. Since then, all other states have enacted anti-stalking laws.

California Law

In California, both criminal and civil laws address stalking. According to the criminal laws, a stalker is someone who willfully, maliciously and repeatedly follows or harasses another (victim) and who makes a credible threat with the intent to place the victim or victim's immediate family in fear for their safety. The victim does not have to prove that the stalker had the intent to carry out the threat. (California Penal Code 646.9)

The criminal penalty for stalking is imprisonment up to a year and/or a fine of up to $1,000. There are more severe penalties when the stalker pursues the same person in violation of a court restraining order, with a sentencing range of two to four years imprisonment. Persons convicted of felony stalking also face stricter penalties if they continue to stalk their victim(s). Courts may issue restraining orders to prohibit stalking. (California Family Code 6320)

A victim, family member or witness may request that the California Department of Corrections, county sheriff or the director of the local department of corrections notify them by phone or mail 15 days before a convicted stalker is released from jail or prison. The victim, family member or witness must keep these departments notified of their most current mailing address and telephone number. The information relating to persons who receive notice must be kept confidential and not released to the convicted stalker. (California Penal Code 646.92) The court may order a person convicted of felony stalking to register with local law enforcement officials within 14 days of moving to a city and/or county. (California Penal Code 646.9)

A victim of stalking may bring a civil lawsuit against the stalker and recover money damages. (See Civil Code 1708.7 for the elements and remedies of the tort of stalking.) Victims may also request that the California Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV) suppress their automobile registration and driver's license records from being released to persons other than court and law enforcement officials, other governmental agencies or specified financial institutions, insurers and attorneys. (California Vehicle Code 1808.21, 1808.22) When stalking occurs in the workplace, an employer can request a temporary restraining order or an injunction on behalf of the employee who is a victim of stalking. (California Code of Civil Procedure 527.8)

Federal law

Currently, there are few federal laws that deal directly with stalking.

* The Interstate Stalking Punishment and Prevention Act of 1996 punishes persons with a fine and/or imprisonment for crossing state lines "with the intent to injure or harass another person...or place that person in reasonable fear of death or serious bodily injury..." (18 USC § 2261A, 2261, 2262).
* Two laws authorize grants for law enforcement agencies to develop programs addressing stalking and for states to improve the process for entering stalking-related data into local, state and national crime information databases such as the National Crime Information Center. (42 USC §§ 3796gg, 14031)
* Another law requires a training program for judges to ensure that when they issue orders in stalking cases, they have all the available criminal history and other information from state and federal sources. (42 USC § 14036)
* As of September 1996, the Attorney General must compile and report data regarding stalking as part of the National Incident-Based Reporting System. (42 USC § 14038)
* The National Center for Victims of Crime has additional information on federal and state laws at its web site: http://www.ncvc.org/law/issues/Stalking/stalking_frames.htm

Tips for Stalking Victims

These tips will help you guard your personal information and lessen the chance that it will get into the hands of a stalker or harasser. However, some of these tips are extreme and should only be used if you are indeed being stalked. Harassment can take many forms, so this information may not be appropriate in every situation and may not resolve serious stalking problems.
(See also the Supplement to this fact sheet, "Security Recommendations for Stalking Victims," provided by the Los Angeles Police Department's Threat Management Unit.)

1. Use a private post office box. Residential addresses of post office box holders are generally confidential. However, the U.S. Postal Service will release a residential address to any government agency, or to persons serving court papers. The Post Office only requires verification from an attorney that a case is pending. This information is easily counterfeited. Private companies, such as Mail Boxes Etc., are more strict and will require that the person making the request have an original copy of a subpoena. Use your private post office box address for all of your correspondence. Print it on your checks instead of your residential address. Instead of recording the address as "Box 123," use "Apartment 123."

2. File a change-of-address card with the U.S. Postal Service giving the private mail box address. Send personal letters to friends, relatives and businesses giving them the new private mailbox address. Give true residential address only to the most trusted friends. Ask that they do not store this address in rolodexes or address books which could be stolen.

3. Obtain an unpublished and unlisted phone number. The phone company lists names and numbers in directory assistance (411) and publishes them in the phone book. Make sure you delete your information from both places. Don't print your phone number on your checks. Give out a work number when asked.

4. If your state has Caller ID, order Complete Blocking (called "Per Line" Blocking in other states). This ensures that your phone number is not disclosed when you make calls from your home. (California phone companies have offered Caller ID June 1996. See PRC fact sheet 19 on Caller ID.)

5. Avoid calling 800, 888 and 900 number services. Your phone number could be "captured" by a service called Automatic Number Identification. It will also appear on the called party's bill at the end of the month. If you do call 800 numbers, use a pay phone.

6. Have your name removed from any "reverse directories." The entries in these directories are in numerical order by phone number or by address. These books allow anyone who has just one piece of information, such as a phone number, to find where you live. Reverse direct-ories are published by phone companies and direct marketers.
(See PRC fact sheet no. 4 on "junk mail.")

7. Let people know that information about you should be held in confidence. Tell your employer, co-workers, friends, family and neighbors of your situation. Alert them to be suspicious of people inquiring about your whereabouts or schedule.

8. Do not use your home address when you subscribe to magazines. In general, don't use your residential address for anything that is mailed or shipped to you.

9. Avoid using your middle initial. Middle initials are often used to differentiate people with common names. For example, someone searching public records or credit report files might find several people with the name, Jane Doe. If you have a common name and want to blend in with the crowd, don't add a middle initial.

10. When conducting business with a government agency, only fill in the required pieces of information. Certain government agency records are public record. Anyone can access the information you disclose to the agency within that record. Public records such as county assessor, county recorder, DMV and business licenses are especially valuable finding tools. Ask the agency if it allows address information to be confidential in certain situations. If possible, use a post office box and do not provide your middle initial, phone number or your Social Security number. If you own property or a car, you may want to consider alternative forms of ownership, such as a trust. This would shield your personal address from the public record. (For more information on "government records and privacy," see PRC fact sheet number 11.)

11. Put your post office box on your driver's license. Don't show your license to just anyone. Your license has a lot of valuable information to a stalker.

12. Don't put your name on the list of tenants on the front of your apartment building. Use a variation of your name that only your friends and family would recognize.

13. Be very protective of your Social Security number. It is the key to much of your personal information. Don't pre-print the SSN on anything such as your checks. Only give it out if required to do so and ask why the requester needs it. The Social Security Administration may be willing to change your SSN. Contact the SSA for details. (See PRC fact sheet number 10 on "SSNs.")

14. Alert the three credit bureaus--Experian, Equifax and Trans Union--to your situation. Ask them to "flag" your record to avoid fraudulent access. (See PRC fact sheet number 6 on "credit reporting" for addresses and phone numbers. See also fact sheet number 17 on "identity theft.")

15. If you are having a problem with harassing phone calls, put a beep tone on your line so callers think you are taping your calls. Use an answering machine to screen your calls, and put a "bluff message" on your machine to warn callers of possible taping or monitoring. Be aware of the legal restrictions on taping of conversations.
(See PRC fact sheet number 3 on "harassing phone calls." See also fact sheet number 9 on "wiretapping and eavesdropping.")

16. If you use electronic mail and other online computer services, change your e-mail address if necessary. Do not enter any personal information into online directories. (See PRC fact sheet number 18 on "privacy in cyberspace.")

17. Keep a log of every stalking incident, plus names, dates and times of your contacts with law enforcement and others. Save phone message tapes and items sent in the mail.

18. Consider getting professional counseling and/or seeking help from a victims support group. They can help you deal with fear, anxiety and depression associated with being stalked.

19. Make a police report. Consider getting a restraining order if you have been physically threatened or feel that you are in danger. When filed with the court, a restraining order legally compels the harasser to stay away from you, or he/she can be arrested. Be aware that papers filed for a restraining order or police report may become public record. Put minimal amounts of information and only provide a post office box address. You should contact an attorney or legal aid office if a restraining order becomes necessary. (Note: Some security experts warn that restraining orders sometimes lead to violence. Before obtaining a restraining order, consider your options carefully.)

20. And these final tips from someone who was stalked for over three years: For your own protection, carry pepper spray. Get a car phone and/or a beeper. Carry a Polaroid or video camera. Never verify anything, like your home address, over the phone.

For More Information

* To obtain a guide for stalking victims, write or call the National Center for Victims of Crime
2111 Wilson Blvd.
Ste. 300, Arlington, VA 22201
Phone: (800) FYI-CALL or (703) 276-2880
Web: www.ncvc.org
www.ncvc.org/src/
* National Domestic Violence Hotline -- (NDVH helps victims find safe houses.)
(800) 799-SAFE, (512) 453-8117
Web: www.ndvh.org
E-mail: ndvh@ndvh.org.

Other web sites:

* Stalking Behavior, by D. T. Coon www.stalkingbehavior.com
* Los Angeles Co. District Attorney www.lovemenot.org
* AXIS Intervention & Training Institute www.stalkingrescue.org
* Stalking Victims' Sanctuary, by Linden Gross www.stalkingvictims.com
* Privacy Rights Clearinghouse www.privacyrights.org
* AntiStalking website, by Doreen Orion, MD www.antistalking.com
* Gavin de Becker, Inc. threat assessment & protection services www.gdbinc.com
* "Stalking through the Courts," by Janet Normalvanbreucher www.gate.net/~liz/liz/FRtactic.html
* The Stalking Assistance Site, Kim Kelly & Joann Ugolini www.stalkingassistance.com
* Working to Halt Online Abuse www.haltabuse.org
* Safety Ed International www.safetyed.org

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I wish her all the best, Fwee!!!
Reach

Posted by: Rameus Feb 14 2005, 05:50 AM

Guns, lots of guns. I'm the most heavily armed pacifist in the world. Some medieval weapons help too. There is a strange sort of comfort to be had when you have a two handed scimitar hanging above your bed. And a battle axe by the door doesn’t hurt either. A mace on the mantelpiece is optional.

On a serious note, a handgun and a concealed weapons permit might not be a terrible idea. She definitely needs to find out who this fruit loop is so she can determine if he is some geek masturbating in a server room somewhere, or if he is a rabid maniac who spends 17 hours each day licking a buck knife he affectionately calls "buzz".

Rameus

Posted by: Reach Feb 14 2005, 06:58 AM

QUOTE (Rameus @ Feb 14 2005, 05:50 AM)

She definitely needs to find out who this fruit loop is so she can determine if he is some geek masturbating in a server room somewhere, or if he is a rabid maniac who spends 17 hours each day licking a buck knife he affectionately calls "buzz".

Absolutely! Also, I prefer to carry a metal paint can opener, attached to my keyring. Grasped in the hand, the end protrudes, which is something like a standard (or straight) screwdriver with a bend to it which is perfect for gouging into various body parts, if necessary. I carry it in my hand and it doesn't require a permit, either.

Better safe than sorry.

Posted by: Challenger1 Feb 14 2005, 08:01 AM

When your friend goes home, if there is ANY doubt, even the slightest bit, that something is amiss, she SHOULD not enter. Call the cops. Or have a trusted acquaintance make a VERY thorough inside and outside check for her, including all windows, even small ones. I have female acquaintances for whom I have done this. It is NEVER a problem to crawl out of the sack in the middle of the night to make sure someone else is safe.

Also make certain the car is maintained. . .in particular the battery and fuel. Full tank at all times. Air in the tires. Oil, coolant. If it goes into a driveway or garage, consider backing it in.

And when going out to it, particularly at night, LOOK AROUND. Have keys in hand and not be fumbling for them. If she has to get into her purse for anything, have her turn with her back against the vehicle, and always, always, LOOK in it before entering, whether it has an alarm or not.

And after getting in, LOCK all the doors. I do so regularly, and it has prevented problems.

Good luck to your friend.

Posted by: The Acid Washed Messiah Feb 14 2005, 08:08 AM

QUOTE (Reach)

Being stalked is a life changing process.

That's true.

True Story - My current GF stalked me for three months before we got together and we'll be going out for 10 years in April. Being stalked certainly changed my life... but for the better.

I love crazy chicks.

Posted by: lalli Feb 14 2005, 10:10 AM

First off, I've never lived in the US so I don't know what advice to give regarding guns and legal help. Also, I've never actually been stalked, but I've had experience dealing with unwanted and slightly illegal male attention. So with that caveat in mind, here's my advice:

There's no doubt that learning to protect yourself can help. Find out if there's a Systema course running in your area, and if so, sign up for it. Systema is a Russian martial art that focuses on self-defense and prepares you to face up to the reality of real-life violence, which is never as clean and rehearsed as most martial arts would have you believe. *rolls her eyes briefly at the no-contact-sparring school of thought*

However, all the martial arts training and concealed weaponry in the world will not help if you're scared. Trust me; fear is the greatest weapon of the stalker and rapist alike, and it is primarily fear that you will need to fight.
Do whatever works to keep yourself grounded and composed. If anything happens, you will need to have a clear head so that you remember to reach for your cell phone, duck into the nearest shop or library or whatever, et cetera.

Don't get scared. Get angry.

Posted by: BlueGiant Feb 14 2005, 01:29 PM

If the stalker is going through email, he may be relying on the internet's pretend annonymity.

However, this is not usually the case.

Email has headders that can be used to track where the message originated from, particularly the ISP. Since stalking usually violates a company's terms of service, reporting the acount by sending them the whole emails (headers and everything, how to can be looked up online) to the guy's ISP will at least get his account screwed. While this is not a garentee of cutting him off, it can make life more difficult for him.

Also give them to the police, and if it crosses state lines it may even be federal (anyone know?). Doing this makes the hunter the hunted. If you want help, I'll be happy to go through them and see what can be found, but this would be best left to law enforcement.

Good luck to your friend.

Posted by: jaded Feb 14 2005, 02:57 PM

As Nivek and Challenger have pointed out one of the biggest changes you can make is being aware of what's going on around you. Anyone who teaches self defense or defense of others will tell you that no one has ever been mugged, raped, car jacked, etc. when they were in "condition yellow" (or orange as N calls it). It really isn't paranoia, it's just looking around you and noticing people coming toward you, in parking lots, cars near yours, etc. Some other easy changes are making sure you ALWAYS lock doors and WINDOWS when you go out (sounds obvious, but...)

Some other changes like motion sensing lights outside and deadbolts are a good idea anyway. Keeping you car in serviceable condition is a plus, also get in the habit of locking the doors and starting it as soon as you get in. Think twice about pulling over if you get bumped or are getting pulled over (cell phone is a real plus here).

I am a firm believer in gun ownership and knowing how to use it. For some it isn't an option as they dont like the implications, aren't responsible enough, or can't get the licensing. 10% OC pepper spray works pretty well and is far superior to the CS, CN, and Mace "breath sprays". It needs to be carried in a way that it can be used when needed and not taken away (not a keychain!).

As others have said, starting over on the internet isn't a hard thing to do.

Statistically, most stalkers are just twisted pervs and aren't truly dangerous. It is worth taking a few precautions and learning to watch your surroundings.

Posted by: Josalo Feb 14 2005, 04:33 PM

Just remember if you kill the guy his body better be on top of you when the police arrive.

Posted by: Shadfox Feb 14 2005, 04:51 PM

You can get lots of defense toys here: http://www.selfdefenseproducts.com

I admit to being overly cautious: I have a knife key chain, illegal grade pepper spray in both a can and in a fake pen, cut resistant gloves and an assortment of other trinkets. It doesn't beat a gun, but they're convenient to carry around.

The biggest question here is what leads her to believe she's being stalked?

When I get stalked I stalk back. Information is power, and if they're going to brandish that weapon I return the fire and get as much dirt on them as possible. Some guy online developed an awkward interest in me and where I lived after an ebay transaction, so I did a search on the database of the large insurance company I worked for and it turns out he's insured with us. I copied down his information and put it in a safe place in case something happened to me.

If you give me a name, I'll abuse my work privileges just for you

Posted by: Fyrefly Feb 14 2005, 08:01 PM

QUOTE (jjacksonRIAB @ Feb 14 2005, 04:42 PM)

Carry a cellphone with you at all times. One little known thing about cellphones is a company cannot shut off 911 service even if the phone account is shut down; you can often find cheap cellphones at goodwill and salvation army and you don't have to activate them (I've seen them for $1-5) - make sure they still work and aren't outdated.

Another emergency number to keep in mind is 112 - it is an international emergency number and works from all mobile/cell phones. I have never yet had cause to use either it or my home country's emergency number, but I always keep it in mind.

And another tip - my mobile phone allows me to dial 000 (the Australian emergency number) even when my phone's keypad is locked. It should work with any emergency number - keep this in mind, so that you don't waste precious seconds unlocking your phone to dial the number.

Posted by: Fweethawt Feb 14 2005, 08:49 PM

Many thanks to everyone for offering your advice and help.

She dropped by today, read the thread, and responded. There are a couple of questions within her response that I highlighted. Hopefully someone here can offer some other suggestions to help her out with these.

QUOTE (EDITED E-mail #3)

I'll look into getting a weapon...most likely a handgun. I also am looking into self defense classes....specific suggestions would be good.

I easily found myself at a site that sells information on people. For about 40 dollars my full name, address, phone number, mortgage info, etc. are right there. Does anyone know how to get that off sites such as these?

I now have a cellphone, so that's taken care of.

Oh...and btw....I have not displayed to him that I'm concerned that he knows so much about me or that I'm afraid. <<<big-time snip>>>

I never used to lock my door...not to my house nor my car....but I do now. <<<another snip>>>

I'm going to sort thru everything they've suggested more.

Thanks again. There's some great info there.

Posted by: Cerise Feb 14 2005, 09:11 PM

Remnants of my self-defense speech to the girls at my high school during prep week. Who knows, they might help.

seven basic steps to protect yourself

1. The Mind.

Be aware. You cannot protect yourself from something you don’t know is there. Always be watching. Know what you are doing. Know where you are going. Know the limits of your body; what you can do, what you can’t do. Know that you are entitled to certain rights: the right to feel safe anywhere, at any time, the right to have your personal space respected, the right to your own body, the right to say no. Look for the places where there is danger and avoid them. Look for the people who are dangerous and avoid them. Trust yourself, and your instincts. They are hardly ever wrong.

2. Fear.

There will always be fear. If there is not fear, then you are not following rule number one and using your mind. Fear can be a good thing. It’s the little warning voice in the back of your mind that says, “hang on a minute, I’m not comfortable with this anymore.” Listen to that voice. Even if it seems silly. Instincts are important. If you’re not comfortable in a situation, then it’s time to say goodbye. If you follow your instincts and you’re wrong, well you’re alive and unharmed enough to feel stupid about it. If you ignore them and you’re wrong, you might be dead. Pick feeling stupid over being dead.

Fear can also be a bad thing. Fear can paralyze you, make you doubt yourself, your abilities, your rights. The best way to overcome this type of paralyzing fear is to make your actions a reflex. Practice scenarios in your head. Use your mind. Rehearse the steps. Your body will know what to do.

3. Body Language.

Walk with your head up. That relates back to rule number one: using your mind. If you don’t have your head up, how can you see where you are going? How can you look at the people and the places? How will you know there is danger if your head is tucked into your chest? Walk with your head up. This communicates to others that you are confident. You know exactly where you are going. You know exactly what you are doing. You know where the danger is and you can’t be caught unawares.

Walk briskly, with purpose. Not running, not like you are afraid, but not shuffling and uncertain either. Would-be attackers are much less likely to go after someone who looks confident. Confident people are not easy targets. Confident people fight back. Confident people are not worth the trouble it takes to start stuff with.

In a situation that is escalating keep your hands up in a defensive position, raised about chest high, palms out. Hands that are raised communicate readiness. Hands that are raised can push forward or intercept punches. Hands that are raised can break choke holds before they start. Hands that are raised are quick to action. A slow block is as good as no block at all.

Make yourself bigger. This can be accomplished a number of ways. 90% of it is attitude. If you feel that you are presenting yourself as bigger, more of a threat, then you probably are. Lean forward. Resist the urge to cower. Resist the urge to step back. If possible, step forward with your hands raised and ready. Stand with your feet planted about shoulder length apart so you cannot be knocked off balance easily. Don’t clench your hands into fists, that’s an escalator, and you don’t want to make antagonize a potential attacker. But keep them in a defensive position. If you feel extremely threatened, have a weapon at the ready. Almost anything can be a weapon. We will come to this later.

Try not to smile. Smiling says nervousness. Smiling says fear. Try not to scowl either. Anger is an instigator. Keep your face a stern neutral. Think grumpy school marm. Think irate grandmother. Make eye contact. Be confident.

4. Voice.

Now that you are following rule number one, you know yourself and you know your rights. Now you need to voice them. If someone is doing something you don’t feel comfortable with, say so. There are three very simple ways you can get most potential attackers to back off. Recognize the action, name the action, and then name what you want done about the action. Recognition is the most important part. If someone is following you, you must first know that they are following you before you can do anything about it. After you have discovered the action, take a defensive posture, look him right in the eye, and name it. Then name what you want him to do about it. Example:

“You’re following me. Stop it right now.”

If you like you can follow with the consequences of continuing the action:

“Stop it right now, or I’m calling the police.”

Or you can combine the naming of the action and what you want done:

“Stop following me right now.”

What will most likely happen next is that your would-be attacker will deny the action. This is standard and meant to cover his ass while causing you to lose your confidence. Don’t let it bother you. It’s better to be embarrassed then dead. As long as his action stops, who care if he denies it? What’s most important is your safety.

Make your voice loud and assertive. Do not swear. Swearing is an instigator. But be firm about what you want. Remember how you were when you were three years old and your brother or sister would stare at you and you’d say:

“I don’t like it when you stare at me. Stop staring at me right now or I’m telling Mom.”

Be like that now. Recognize. Name the action. Name what you want to happen. This will diffuse about 80% of situations before they start.

Draw public attention. If people stare at you and think you’re crazy for speaking up, that’s fine. Who cares what they think? If they are paying attention now, even if it’s because they think you’re crazy, it’s going to be much more difficult for anyone to attack you. Rapists don’t like an audience. Better embarrassed then dead. Be loud, be firm, be confident.

5. Escape.

It’s best if you know the area you are in and all possible escape routes from that area. If you get away from your attacker and run into a dead end ally, how much good did it do you?

Running away is the smartest thing you can do in a situation. If he’s far enough away that you can run without getting caught, go for it. The only thing that matters here is getting out of the situation alive and well, not showing off your kung-fu moves. Dead brave people are still dead.

6. Support Systems.

If you find yourself feeling threatened, don’t think you have to tough it out on your own. Use other around you in order to nullify the situation. Most would-be attackers will not make their move in a public place, especially not if attention is being called to them. So alert the public. Scream. It doesn’t really matter what you scream as long as you do it loud enough for someone else to hear and draw attention to yourself. Make a big fuss.

If you can, call the police. They are there to protect you. It is their job. They will not belittle you if you call for them and it turns out to be a false alarm. You have every right to ask for their help any time you feel like you might be in danger, and if they are good cops then they will encourage you to do so.

7. Physical force.

This is the last resort. This is what you do when being aware, being confident, being ready, being assertive, and voicing the action have all failed. This is what you do when running is not an option (yet). We’ll split this section into sub-groups to make it easier.

a) Weapons
- Anything can be a weapon. Keys, pens, hairbrushes, hairspray, perfume. Keys and pens can be stabbed into places. So can hairbrush tines. Hairspray and perfume can be just as effective as mace and pepperspray. Go for the sensitive parts of the body: eyes, groin, neck, and behind the knee. You can use your backpack or purse to swing into the head or groin area. If you press the fingers of one hand to the thumb in an imitation of a bird beak you can create quite a hard surface with a lot of force capability behind it. The points of the fingers can be driven into the eyes.

- If you are going to carry things like mace, stun-guns, or hand-guns for protection, you must know exactly how to use them and you must be totally prepared to use them. If you carry a gun and aren’t prepared to pull the trigger, then it’s pretty darn useless to have it, and more likely it will be used against you instead, putting you in even more danger.

B ) The Plan
- Most self-defense moves are designed to give you time, time to run away and get help. If you can run away, then the situation is over and you’ve succeeded. The point is not to beat your attacker into the ground (no matter how satisfying that may be) but to get away unharmed. The most sure-fire way to debilitate an attacker is to either go for sight or mobility. If the attacker cannot see you, he cannot chase you. If he cannot chase you, then you can escape. Likewise, if an attacker cannot move, he cannot chase you.
- Most attackers will back off if you show resistance. They are cowards and do not like hard targets. Give them a bit of pain and they’ll slink off. However, attackers who are under the influence of drugs or alcohol, or those who suffer from mental disease, will not be so easily deterred. A guy on PCP can take a lot of pain and damage without realizing it and keep coming after you. With these types of attackers, the plan is no longer merely to debilitate. These guys you aim to take down. Permanently. Either by knocking them unconscious or rendering them incapable of moving. You do what you have to in order to keep yourself safe.

Posted by: Lokmer Feb 15 2005, 05:01 AM

QUOTE (Fweethawt @ Feb 14 2005, 08:49 PM)

[QUOTE=EDITED E-mail #3]I'll look into getting a weapon...most likely a handgun. I also am looking into self defense classes....specific suggestions would be good.

Self defense classes offered by martial arts studios - particularly ones run by masters who have an interdiciplinary approach, are particularly good. You want something tactically minded - something that will teach you to take into account your size, speed, strength, and things you are carrying when facing an opponent - rather than JUST learning an art. For example, arts such as Karate, Tae Kwon Do, and such have a force-against-force approach, emphasizing precision in quick, hard strikes and blocks. Aikido, Hapkido, Jujitsu, and other grappling arts emphasize turning a superior opponent's size back on him and using his mass as a weapon. I have found it's best to learn from someone who is a master in at least one sort of grappling and one sort of hard martial art - having the variety of options is VERY important.

Cerise is correct also - learning body language, both how to read it and how to project it, is extremely important. Reach actually has read a couple of good books on the subject specifically targeted towards women, which you might be able to get her to tell you about. Also, as strange as it sounds, read a few CIA field op manuals or a few good spy novels or Sherlock Holmes stories - well-researched espionage thrillers and mysteries take you through the process of "condition yellow" observation in a way that helps you understand the mindset.

Hope that helps!
-Lokmer

Posted by: jjacksonRIAB Feb 20 2005, 12:51 PM

I've never taken any formal self defense classes myself, but I have fought black belts in various schools and come out ahead, so I've got some ideas on what works.

First of all, most students abandon static training and fixed positions during a real fight - I have found them to be almost entirely useless. I also find that most fights that are not sports-oriented head for the ground (grappling). Leverage and maintaining balance are very important in this kind of situation.

Learn pressure points, learn the easiest targets to damage; learn how to get out of holds. Once common self-defense measure is to crush the opponent's foot with all of your might. From what I read it only takes 14 pounds of pressure to break an attacker's foot, and my experience agrees with this (horse damn near broke my foot). Always run when expedient.

Also, it's best to keep any fight in a constant state of escalation. You must initiate escalation and have no qualms about hurting another person. I did not recommend any weapons because for the most part they're illegal, though if the truth is to be known I carry a large fixed-blade knife with me (which is most definitely illegal). While that may sound paranoid, there have actually been times where the knife has actually kept me calm in a situation that was on the verge of escalation.

In a fight, you must hone your powers of observation. Do not look at the opponent's eyes, nor gaze fixedly at their body, but maintain a state of prepared observance. Most opponents project their attacks long before they happen, and they do it principally through their shoulders. If you are a good observer you will be able to preempt their attacks by feinting, counterattacking or opportunizing on their lack of balance.

Lay your life before your opponent. While it may sound like advice to give in, it is just the opposite. This goes under the heading of escalation. Hold back on no opportunity to attack. You can make openings as easily as an opponent can offer them. As long as you are exploding onto the opponent, he becomes demoralized and will begin to give in first; every counterattack will be an act of desparation. As soon as he is no longer in a position to give chase, flee the scene.

When fleeing, never flee to a position that will compromise you. For example, don't jump in water - don't climb a tree or take an extended egress (however, egress in which your back is not to your opponent long enough to put you in jeopardy is advantageous); don't hide in bushes for that matter either. Always flee to an area where you would be at an advantage were your attacker to catch hold of you. For example, if you run up a set of stairs and someone grabs you, you can turn around and kick them down the stairs. If someone chases you off a ledge, again you can turn around and stab them while they are making the descent. Use their moment of vulnerablity against them.

Those are just some basic tips, but by no means exhaustive. I did forget one important thing. A good first attack is to go for the opponent's eyes. If you do not have mace available , put his eyes out with your fingers and a quick flip of the wrist, then make your escape.

As for which courses to take, take some personal defense courses specifically for the purpose of driving off an attacker. I wouldn't recommend TKD or anything like that as they are expensive and require a great investment of time before proficiency is attained, and in the end my experience has been that you are better off not learning the fixed positions. You want to concentrate on ways to quickly disable an attacker.

Posted by: nonni Feb 21 2005, 10:16 AM

This is all good advice and everything, but honestly do you think it really works? This is coming from someone who really was attacked once, but got away.
I believe that the only reason I was able to get away was because I was already running when he tried to attack me, and I was also in great physical shape and was able to run extremely fast. (The man was also fairly overweight and could not keep up with me). I ran as fast as I could back to my home. Even when I knew I had lost him, I kept running. While running, I even tripped and fell, scraping my forearms pretty badly. The next morning I had whiplash from that fall, that's how fast I Was going.
When the cop came over to take the report, I think most of you know that the cop started making excuses for this man's behavior. I don't even think he filed the report.
All this advice is good and dandy, but in the heat of the moment... I mean, really? If I had poked this man's eyes out, I would so be in jail right now. If I had defended myself physically in anyway against him, I would be considered ten times the criminal that he would have been. I just know these things by the way law enforcement (and a considerable amount of others) scoffed their explainations and reasons for why this subhuman animal tried to do what he tried to do to me. If I had done ANYTHING but RUN, I would have been raped. I have no idea how I would have dealt with not only being raped, but also not being allowed to be angry about the rape. Not being allowd to talk about it without hearing excuses being made for him. I think I would have flipped.
Just because these things are happening to you does not mean that you are protected. Just because you defend yourself doesn't mean that you won't have to pay the price. Just because you are a woman and he is a man doesn't mean that the world will be on your side if something does happen to you.

Posted by: Cerise Feb 21 2005, 10:22 AM

Well nonni, I'd rather be presently alive and well and getting myself a damned good lawyer for shooting fucking rapist guy then raped and dead so it's kind of choosing between the lesser of two evils.

Besides whch, engaging in physical combat is only used as a last resort anyway, when you really can't run or get away or disolve the situation.

I ran from psycho bermuda short guy in the employee washrooms, got scratches up and down my arms, and an assertion from detective fucker that I was imagining things and a fake video tape forced confession for my troubles and trauma, but I'm glad I fought back and got away, even if the law's a crock of shit. You do what you have to.

Posted by: nonni Feb 21 2005, 10:28 AM

I don't know- after what I went through after my near-attack, I am not sure I would have what it took to fight back. Remember, my attacker had excuses. What, if you don't mind, did your attacker look like?

Posted by: Cerise Feb 21 2005, 10:34 AM

He looked like a normal guy, mid-thirties, taller then me (but most everyone is), white but really tanned skin, bit of a paunch hanging over bermuda shorts, beardless, short brown hair, sandals, very hairy legs, big hands, sunglasses, kind of a square chin, silver chain around his neck.

Posted by: nonni Feb 21 2005, 10:35 AM

Oh, ok, now I understand. Believe me, our situations were very different.

Posted by: Cerise Feb 21 2005, 10:40 AM

how different was your situation, if you don't mind me asking?

Posted by: doomguarder Feb 21 2005, 11:00 AM

About 4 years ago, a friend of mine was abducted from the parking lot of her apartment complex at gun point. It was 2am, she was drunk (returning from a party with coworkers) and not paying attention to who was in the lot with her. In no way was the attack and subsequent abduction her fault. These are simply the circumstances. She was held and repeatedly raped for 48 hours then dumped naked and duct taped into the parking lot of a local grocery store. In the early morning hours. This occurred in San Marcos TX if you feel like verifying it. Please do not post her name if you do. She would be VERY uncomfortable about it.

She has not recovered. She continues to relive the ordeal every time she sleeps. Her marriage fell apart (he tried really hard for years), her fuddie family blamed her “lifestyle”, the police blamed her for wearing “skimpy” clothing. We, her friends, tried to stick by her, but no one has been able to get her to give up the guilt. She blames herself as well.

The man, if you want to call this piece of filth that, had killed his pervious victim and stolen her truck (the same truck my friend was forced into). He had committed at least 4 such crimes, and was stalking a new victim in the same complex when he was finally arrested. He was given the death penalty. My friend did not fight her attacker, she did what she had been taught, do not fight and you may go free. To this day she wishes she had fought him with all of her might. To this day she wishes she had screamed her lungs out, and to this day she suffers.

I would fight. I agree with others, give no breaks, find out who he is, what his MO is, has he done this before, is he dangerous. Weapons are good only if you are proficient and comfortable with them. Take all precautions possible. If he shows up at her home, have a set plan of action. Speed dial police or a friend, an alarm, something. Have a neighbor looking out for your when you come home. Be very aware of your surroundings. Never get out of a car if you do not feel secure. Leave and come back with another person.

Just because you live does not mean you will survive. We fear her taking her life everyday. I don’t recommend this feeling to anyone.

Posted by: nonni Feb 21 2005, 11:12 AM

QUOTE (Cerise @ Feb 21 2005, 10:40 AM)

how different was your situation, if you don't mind me asking?

My attacker's culture made him do it. Your attacker was white. It's a lot more politically correct to be angry at white men these days.

Posted by: nonni Feb 21 2005, 11:14 AM

QUOTE (doomguarder @ Feb 21 2005, 11:00 AM)

I live in Texas also. The law and government here sucks. It doesn't surprise me that the law enforcement blamed her.

Posted by: nonni Feb 21 2005, 11:18 AM

One thing just came to mind-
Why would we want to verify it? How would one even be able to without the woman's name or the date it was reported? What was the point in even saying that in the first place?

Posted by: doomguarder Feb 21 2005, 11:37 AM

QUOTE

Not that hard to verify, I check facts all the time. Some that seem important some that do not. The town is small and this is the only such incident I know of there.

Why did I say it? Because it came to mind as I was typing and spilled out on the page with the rest of the story which is always emotional for me to tell. I am not someone who trusts what I read, I verify, I assume others do as well.

My point, was that running works if you can get away, but do not just give in and take it. Fear is the mind killer. Think, plan, and be calm.

I also have to say. Whoever you talked to who tried to justify your attackers actions should be fired immediately. I would have gone after his badge. I do not care if he was a green martian, and rape is legal on Mars. His actions were/ are not justified based on his ethnicity.

The asshole who is sitting on death row right now is Mexican. He could be a blond beach bum from CA for all I care, he would still deserves to be right where he is.

Posted by: Cerise Feb 21 2005, 11:43 AM

QUOTE (nonni @ Feb 21 2005, 11:12 AM)

QUOTE (Cerise @ Feb 21 2005, 10:40 AM)

how different was your situation, if you don't mind me asking?

My attacker's culture made him do it. Your attacker was white. It's a lot more politically correct to be angry at white men these days.

Ah, then your situation was a lot like the one at my job two years ago, when a black teenager attempted the same thing, only I had quick legs and an iron gate with a padlock and a cell phone that time and he ran away instead of me. As soon as it was established that my attacker was black, the OPP decided that the white girl was overreacting and the poor boy was just trying to give me a "friendly hug" is all.

Posted by: nonni Feb 21 2005, 12:00 PM

What's OPP?

Posted by: Cerise Feb 21 2005, 12:01 PM

Ontario Provincial Police

Posted by: Challenger1 Feb 21 2005, 12:04 PM

This brings to mind something a police officer told me. . .

. . .if you have to defend yourself, or protect someone else in an escalating situation, and are concerned about holding back because of the possible legal consequences. . .

. . .it is a lot better to be tried by twelve. . .

. . .then it is to be carried by six.

Posted by: nonni Feb 21 2005, 12:15 PM

QUOTE (Challenger1 @ Feb 21 2005, 12:04 PM)

. . .it is a lot better to be tried by twelve. . .

. . .then it is to be carried by six.

Well, that depends on one's perspective. In my case, I fear that I not only would have had to deal with the trauma of having been raped, but I also probably would have had to deal with negative stigma of being called a racist, being blamed, harassed (half of my community is hispanic), even maybe publicly humiliated if my story made the news. This could have led to the loss of my career and many friends. I am not saying that death is anything to aspire to or anything, but it's definitely not the worst thing that can happen. If death is so horrible, then why does everyone do it? I am 95% sure I would have been "carried by six" than to have been taken over in every other way by this disgusting subhuman animal that tried to attack me. There would have been more dignity.