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Open Forums for ExChristian.Net > Old Board > Do You Enjoy Sex? (continued)

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Printable Version of Topic Click here to view this topic in its original format ExChristian.Net Open Forums > Sex and Christianity > Do You Enjoy Sex (continued) : Welcome Christians Posted by: SOIL Dec 10 2003, 12:14 PM QUOTE (TexasFreethinker @ Dec 10 2003, 04:56 AM) QUOTE (SOIL @ Dec 8 2003, 06:00 PM) It is possible that my wife and I may be helped by what you have said (we are currently awaiting some tests on a biopsy which was recently taken from her uterus). Dennis, I hope everything checks out ok with your wife. I can't tell you that I'll praying for you, but I do offer lots of human concern and a reminder that we'll be here for you no matter what happens. Tim Thanks Tim, Well actually, I would still be happy even if you were "praying for" us. Unlike perhaps a few flaming evangelical conservative christians, I do think that God hears the prayers of ANY HUMAN BEING (including Jews, EX-Christians, etc...). I am not here picking on either a famous Southern Baptist (who I in some ways still admire), - or Matthew, (by the way Matthew - I don't feel bad toward you - I guess I just wanted to honor your right to restrict the content of the thread you started - so that is why I started this thread - where I don't feel bad about responding to Tim's kind post). Dennis Posted by: SOIL Dec 10 2003, 01:01 PM WOW I just now noticed - that the photo of the copulating couples which was recently appearing on the left top of each thread - is NOT there now!. I think perhaps I should say THANK YOU DAVE! - so, THANK YOU DAVE ! Dennis Posted by: SOIL Dec 11 2003, 06:06 AM Q. Do I enjoy sex ? short answer : Yes ......... longer answer: through sex: I learn how unity and diversity are not of necessity exclusive entities Also: I learn whether I truly believe whether it is more blessed to give than to receive. Dennis Posted by: michelle Dec 11 2003, 12:05 PM Soil, you said that you learn how unity and diversity are not of necssity exclusive enties... can you please explain this further, I understand unity & diversity from good old fashioned life experience, but not everyone here has a masters degree, and I dont understand the rest of what youre saying. Can you explain, or am I just too stupid for you to respond to? Just kidding. As a Christian I was very thirsty for knowledge, which is good but I beleive that the thirst was stemming from the mystery of it all. Maybe I would have been better off looking at Sherlock Holmes or the Hardy boys. ha ha Posted by: SOIL Dec 11 2003, 01:30 PM QUOTE (michelle @ Dec 11 2003, 12:05 PM) Soil, you said that you learn how unity and diversity are not of necssity exclusive enties... can you please explain this further, I understand unity & diversity from good old fashioned life experience, but not everyone here has a masters degree, and I dont understand the rest of what youre saying. Can you explain ... Hi Michelle, Well first off - I don't have a master's degree either - actually I don't even have a BA (though I was a bachelor for a very small amount of time - and I sometimes would sketch some drawings!) -- just kidding - (at least about the stuff that is in parenthesis). To be really embarrassingly honest, I can't say that I completely (fully) understand why I said what I did about sex and 'unity within diversity'. I woke up this morning somewhere between 3 and 4 AM --I was thinking along those lines - then I got up and wrote down that poem on a little scrap of paper - then drank some milk - then read the bible verses which I put on my 'signature' just today - then I went back to bed and eventually sleep. Sorry if you didn't want that much detail (lol). Watch out - I feel the urge to quote a Bible passage: (it is fairly short though) in order to help me explain perhaps some of the reason I came up with that "poem'. QUOTE Genesis 2:21-25 (ESV) So the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and while he slept took one of his ribs and closed up its place with flesh. [22] And the rib that the Lord God had taken from the man he made into a woman and brought her to the man. [23] Then the man said, "This at last is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man." [24] Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. [25] And the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed. In this passage, I see that both woman and man came from the same basic creation of God. Then God (after hearing from Adam about the need) decided it would be best if there were TWO KINDS - so He produced some diversity - then God said they should 'become one flesh' - and there we have unity again. There are several other scripture passages in the New Testament that I also think fueled my thinking to some extent - but I won't quote them unless somebody requests it -- as there have been some complaints about all of these "bible passages" that I sometimes include in my posts. Of late, I am trying to just stick with "IMHO" stuff a little more. Dennis Posted by: michelle Dec 11 2003, 03:13 PM Dennis, Thank you for clearing that up. I think I understand what you were saying. You said that after God heard from Adam about the need he decided that it would be best if there were two kinds, so he produced some diversity- then God said that they should become one flesh- and there we have unity again. Well let me say that I can understand that an Adam would have a need for an Eve & an Eve would have a need for an Adam, but I wish they could be more specific as to what these needs are. Becoming one flesh is a little too much for me. I need space. I need my own identity. I dont do well with humans owning each other like property. I do like the part about the man and his wife were both naked and not ashamed. You said that after he decided that there should be two kinds, he produced diversity. I dont know, but for me, for years I was under the impression that men & women were so different from each other. I was programmed to think like that. Nowadays I dont see much difference between the sexes except for the anatomy. Were all just people. I heard the strangest thing at work the other day (from an 18 yr old male) He says to me: see that girl over there, its women like her who make men feel that they are superior" So there we go again, blaming the woman. Anyway, I thought this statement to be odd so when I got home I asked my boyfreind, "is it true that some guys think they are superior to women?" His answer: "no guys that I know" Well Im starting to ramble on to another topic but what can I say, its not my fault Im a 36 yr. old going on 19. Everybodys gotta start somewhere. Posted by: SOIL Dec 12 2003, 11:20 AM QUOTE (michelle @ Dec 11 2003, 03:13 PM) ... ...Were all just people. I heard the strangest thing at work the other day (from an 18 yr old male) He says to me: see that girl over there, its women like her who make men feel that they are superior" So there we go again, blaming the woman. Anyway, I thought this statement to be odd so when I got home I asked my boyfreind, "is it true that some guys think they are superior to women?" His answer: "no guys that I know" Well Im starting to ramble on to another topic but what can I say, its not my fault Im a 36 yr. old going on 19. Everybodys gotta start somewhere. Michelle, I just read and responded to Connie's excellent reply to me in the thread : (well, when I first started this post it was just after readings Connies reply - I keep getting interupted! - it's afternoon now). http://www.vanallens.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=1695 I'm a 48 yr. old going on 6. Let me tell you, I have a lot to learn about some very important things! .......... I am really interested in what you brought up -- the question that you asked your boyfriend about whether guys think they are superior to women. There is a Christian man who I admire a lot who is in the process of writing a book about that very subject. He is trying to show how deep this problem is - throughout the entire world - even within Christian churches, as it is so deeply rooted in the cultures where we/they live. He works for the organization called "Food for the Hungry" and he travels extensively throughout the world trying to help folks who are in great need. The way I learned that he was writing such a book was when a traumatic thing happened: My family helps support several children through a program which the organization "World Vision" runs. Somewhere around 6 months or so ago, we received word that we don't need to send any more money to support one of the girls (in India). When my wife asked "why not?" - they said because she had been hanged by her father and she died. It seems he didn't like that she had eloped with a boy who lived nearby and when she returned home he hanged her. (I think there was support for that among his community). Last I heard, the government was looking into doing something to punish him - but that culture did not have any Christian roots - (I didn't bring this up just to make a point here) - but anyway, I guess it is not the normal (traditional) thing for a father to be punished for that sort of thing in that culture. When I heard of this I was very upset (to put it mildly). I called my friend because I was wondering if he had heard of this kind of thing. He confirmed that it is not all that uncommon. That is when he told me that he had just begun collecting material to write a book about how women are so oppressed in so many places across the world. Incidentally, this is the same friend who is the one who has helped me to understand how I devalue women when I view them too much in a narrow minded sexually oriented way. Btw, he is the one who told me about the connection between the horrendous things that have been done in Rwanda - and how there is a large number of "Christian" people there. He has used that fact as a way to show that we Christians need to use more than our minds (how we believe), ALSO we must use our hands (to really help people) because God made us both spirit AND flesh. (I'm sure he could explain his position about this subject better than I can - but I think that is basically one of the things he is very passionate about.) Here's yet another 'by the way' -- when I have read some posts (here on this site) - I have begun to understand better about how a woman may feel sometimes - like where I saw someone talk about how she has sometimes been treated so that she felt as if the main thing a man wants from her is "a hole", (at least I think that's how she put it - I can't find the post just now - but I assume she must have felt that she was seen primarily as a place for a man to put a certain member of his anatomy). When I shared what I read with my friend, he said he had heard a woman in Brazil say the exact same thing, (she had been sexually used throughout her childhood). It is enough to break a person's heart - and a sense of justice makes me think some of the men in her life should have had another part of their anatomy broken as well. These things help me to at least begin to see how bad we men have been to women. It is another reason why I think I need to go back to when I was six years old and see if I can relearn a few things - hopefully, maybe this time I can get a clue. Dennis Posted by: michelle Dec 12 2003, 05:35 PM Yeah its too bad some women feel like sex objects. There are alot of reasons for it. Too many too list. But what about this? Do you see Christianity making men out to be over sexed & out of control in that area? It seems like thats what the bible is telling them & they beleive it? Posted by: michelle Dec 12 2003, 05:39 PM ps I could be wrong but it seems to me that where the sex drive is obsessive, thats where a deeper meaning of intimacy is missing. Whats your take on it? Posted by: SOIL Dec 13 2003, 06:39 AM Yes Michelle, I think I basically agree with what you say about obsessiveness being a hindrance to experiencing a deeper meaning in intimacy. Dennis (I may think about this more and perhaps post any other thoughts which hit me - but for now I am still kind of shell-shock after reading where Steve has accused me of being dishonest - in the source thread that prompted me to respond to Connies signature). Posted by: SOIL Dec 13 2003, 08:11 AM Steve, If you are reading this thread, then I should apologize to you for using your name (singling you out) in reference to the other thread. I am sorry about that Steve. I have now 'spoke my mind' in that thread and addressed you and some of other folks here in Ex-christian land -- when I used the collective term "all" in my greeting. The posts there effected me emotionally more than I should have allowed them too. (It is kind of unusual for me to hear folks implying that I have been dishonest with them.) I understand that this board is a very different place than where I have spent most of my life. You guys and gals have obviously gone through a lot of stuff (maybe I should have used instead a different word, instead of stuff - like a reference to a foul-smelling thing - but that would also be unusual for me). Look, I have seen a different side of the tracks than you folks have seen - but I am trying to train myself to understand that. I truly want to learn more about this world (as you experience it) verses just being content to assume the world fits my pattern exclusively. still wanting to be your friend, Dennis Posted by: michelle Dec 17 2003, 05:04 PM Dennis, Would you please say the word shit already! Go scream it out your windows to the neighbors, SHIT SHIT SHIT! FUCK FUCK FUCK, go Dennis go! Look for Pitchus post about this topic when her kids were little. Im sure you can see the emancipation in that no? Posted by: Emperor Norton II Dec 19 2003, 12:07 AM Well, you're still my friend... assuming I don't flip into Destroy-Everything mode. Posted by: sexkitten Dec 19 2003, 09:34 PM QUOTE (SOIL @ Dec 12 2003, 11:20 AM) QUOTE (michelle @ Dec 11 2003, 03:13 PM) ... its not my fault Im a 36 yr. old going on 19. Everybodys gotta start somewhere. I'm a 48 yr. old going on 6. Let me tell you, I have a lot to learn about some very important things! I feel less bad about being 28 and going on 17... Posted by: michelle Dec 23 2003, 07:01 AM Okay. In this thread Dennis said he was 48 going on six, I said that I was 36 going on 19, and sexkitten said she felt less bad being 28 going on 17... well I just turned 37, so I guess that makes me 20 now! And Im older than both of ya's, nah, nah, nah, na! Can I just stay a teenager for a few more days please? lol Posted by: SOIL Dec 26 2003, 07:48 AM QUOTE Wilde: There's a hierarchy of pleasure, then? Jesus: Of course there is, Oscar. Each gratifying pleasure is like the rung of a ladder. Each is able to carry you only a little further but is not able to sustain you. All of those pleasures are "under the sun." Wilde: It's true...my pleasure always demanded just one step more. Jesus: But here's your answer. In seeking pleasure, you pursued the body and lost the person. You sought the sensation and sacrificed the individual. You see, in pursuing the sacred, you exalt the person and the sensation follows. Life then makes sense. In pursuing sensuality, you exalt the body and profane the person. It's like emptying a container and throwing it away. Life, then, becomes just a container. Living becomes senseless. You wanted sexual promiscuity. It's written into the nature of sexuality that perversion empties pleasure of the meaning for which it was created. The body was not made for that. The binding of a man and woman in the one-flesh union is indicative of the embrace of their spirits. As I've said to you, the primacy of the person must always be kept intact. When that's lost, the sexual act is a stealer of pleasure. In the quote box above I have manually copied text from pages 71 and 72 from the little book published by Multnomah Publishers (which I highly recommend) : written by Ravi Zacharias, and entitled "SENSE AND SENSUALITY" - and Subtitled: "Jesus Talks with Oscar Wilde on the Pursuit of Pleasure". ... Some of the things (about sexuality) which I have been wrestling with in recent months - are addressed in more of surrounding text (from the book I mention above) in a post I made in the following thread : http://www.vanallens.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=1616 (If you are interested, see what is in the big quote box - in my post there, - the one which has the date/time stamp closest to this one.) The interesting thing about the content which author Ravi Zacharias speaks about - is that I have experienced a greater "freedom" from my desires to look at photos of naked women- as I have been coming to agree more with the understanding shown in those pages. For instance, the ideas about; seeking for pleasure apart from personality - and about seeing the value of individuals being supported by the glory of their Creator - I think have been very pivotal in helping me understand more about my own sexuality. Dennis Posted by: GodzillaBless Dec 26 2003, 09:59 AM This from a guy who masturbates regularly? interesting. Posted by: SOIL Dec 26 2003, 11:37 AM Yes Connie, My point is this: it seems what was required to give me freedom from that bondage was to come to the realization that a woman's value (and a man's too - for that matter) is so significant (because our Creator has established it so) - that I could no longer rationalize being even a 'consumer' in what may be called pornography. When I was in any way connected with that vile business - I was a part of the problem (not the other way around) - which involves (for me anyway) treating a real person's body as something reduced to the level of merchandise - (by stripping her body away from her soul). Dennis Posted by: GodzillaBless Dec 26 2003, 02:34 PM Yeah whatever. You wanna know what I bitterly hate? Guys like you who friggin look at a woman, get a hard on, and then beat yourself to death over the guilt!!!!!!! And then hide behind some goody two shoes notion about how great they are for not acknowledging these urges anymore. Its about as stupid as denying that you're hungry or thirsty. What's the point? As long as your not fucking out there committing rape, pederasty, or some other godawful crime, who cares?! As far as I'm concerned, you and all your other goody two shoes counterparts out there are goofball motherfucker idiots!!!!! Even I suck cock once in a while. And I'm glad I do! There, I said it. So sue me, as you go sailing off into the bathroom for another whackoff session. You and all your Christian compatriots belong in the nutward!!!!!! Your religion is goofy, your morals are stupid, and you yourself are a dimwitted shaven ape! So go cry to your mommy you fucking numbskull dimwit -- I've had it with creeps like you!!! You are the biggest joke of a Christian I've ever seen, period. Go get laid and leave the rest of us the hell alone you backasswards puke!!!!!! Posted by: JezebelLeFey Dec 26 2003, 06:20 PM Posted by: michelle Dec 26 2003, 06:52 PM its very clear that somebody is seeking a deeper intimacy, I am beginning to wonder if giving up Christianity is what it takes to get that intimacy. I also suspect that lots of Christians are trying to get away from so called sexual addictions in order to experience real intimacy. Some of them seem to think that God is going to remove the lust so that they can be free to love. Its all fucked up. I wish an atheist somewhere could address this problem & give these people a way to get at what they really want. Somebody please help these people! I sure the fuck dont know how to do it. The only thing that I do know that works is to get to know the one you want within a group. Isolated dating sucks. Does anyone know what the hell Im trying to say? Posted by: GodzillaBless Dec 26 2003, 07:13 PM All I know is that I'm sick of this dogfucker SOIL coming on here and whining at all of us about porn and masturbation and his sex life and what not. Its the most intellectually dishonest dogshit I've ever come across. It's not even really his fault I snapped like that. I was just showing my nudist site to some jackass that asked to see it, then what does he do..... but rant and rave about how beautiful his waifish anorexic girlfriend is. I finally snapped at the guy "Why don't you just come out and say I'm fucking fat." I'm so SICK of these fucking jackasses that are purportedly "gentlemen" but in actuality they're not. I have more respect for people like I Broke Free. Yes, he's sucked a few dicks... BUT HE'S NOT A FUCKING JACKASS!!!!!!!!!!!! Posted by: michelle Dec 26 2003, 07:59 PM youre right, they are probably not gentlemen, but boy HOW THEY WANT TO BE. I myself am not into the gentlemen type, I mean respect is good but not that stuffy stuff, my boyfreind dresses like Marshall Mathers. (M&M) Sexy, real sexy. No yuppies in my bed, thank you very much. Posted by: michelle Dec 26 2003, 08:01 PM Oh yeah & he can rap too but no gospel songs of course. Posted by: michelle Dec 26 2003, 08:05 PM One more. He can get out on the dance floor without a sigle drink in him. No Christian inferiority complexes around here thank you very much. Posted by: bdpuffin Dec 26 2003, 09:19 PM Ya know, every day when I log into this site I'm finding over and over again, after 20 years of trying to live 'the Christian ideal,' how little I know of sexuality and the way the sexes are supposed to relate to each other. I love the women here who say it like it is - I'm learning so much, but of course the true test will be going out into the world and being able to assert myself without letting all that Xtian indoctrination reassert itself - I've carried it for so long I'm afraid it will come out as pure reflex. That's part of giving up those beliefs though - finding who I am and expressing that fearlessly and without apology. Will I know what to do with real freedom? Should be interesting... bdp Posted by: Dhampir Dec 26 2003, 09:27 PM C, I love you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! thank god (not really) there are women like you that own their sexuality. I love that! Posted by: pitchu Dec 26 2003, 09:30 PM QUOTE (bdpuffin @ Dec 26 2003, 09:19 PM) finding who I am and expressing that fearlessly and without apology. Will I know what to do with real freedom? Should be interesting... bdp, Just in the short time you've been posting, the above qualities are becoming more evident. To me, you don't sound like a guy who's going to be blown out of the water by freedom. Posted by: I Broke Free Dec 27 2003, 08:19 AM QUOTE (GodzillaBless @ Dec 26 2003, 10:13 PM) I'm so SICK of these fucking jackasses that are purportedly "gentlemen" but in actuality they're not. I have more respect for people like I Broke Free. Yes, he's sucked a few dicks... BUT HE'S NOT A FUCKING JACKASS!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks for the compliment GodzillaBless! I have met quite a few dick-heads in my day too! Most of them suck too. Posted by: michelle Dec 27 2003, 03:32 PM bdp, Pitchu is right. Posted by: SOIL Dec 27 2003, 03:47 PM QUOTE (GodzillaBless @ Dec 26 2003, 07:13 PM) ... ... Its the most intellectually dishonest dogshit I've ever come across. It's not even really his fault I snapped like that. ... ... Hi again Connie, I am glad to hear it is not exclusively my fault. I really don't understand how I have prompted you say I am intellectually dishonest - especially about things I have said which I considered to be even embarrassingly honest - (all the way to the point of revealing things about myself which could be used by the intelligent folks at this site to hammer my faith about Christianity). I don't like being called names (like most other folks I guess). But it hurts even more when I am called "intellectually dishonest" - especially at the point where I have tried the hardest to be honest. Maybe it will help me to stop being such a bad guy, if you will tell me why you think I have been intellectually dishonest. I don't want to keep hurting you or other people like you so maybe if you can explain this to me - I will know how I can improve myself. Dennis Posted by: GodzillaBless Dec 27 2003, 03:50 PM You ever hear of cognitive dissonance son? Posted by: nightbreeze Dec 27 2003, 04:44 PM Its been forever since I had any action. I just don't trust people anymore. Posted by: michelle Dec 27 2003, 05:54 PM Nightbreeze, what are you saying? That youve been hurt, so you dont trust? Some people cant be trusted, its true. It takes TIME & listening to a person before I can really trust them. But Ill tell you who I still dont trust sometimes. Myself. Why? Because Im afraid that the old Renee could come into play & get burnt. So Im cautious, but not closed off. Am I making sense? Usually I can tell when somebodys interested in real freindship or when theres a motive to "USE" or manipulate. No, I dont give the shirt off my back anymore. Posted by: nightbreeze Dec 27 2003, 06:50 PM Yea, I've been hurt too many times, so I don't take chances anymore. Posted by: michelle Dec 27 2003, 08:44 PM You know what? Theres a woman somewhere whos gonna see what a good catch you are, and shes not gonna back off till you give in & give her a chance. ha ha Honestly though youre gonna get somebody who is outstanding. I know these things from reading your posts. smile. Posted by: nightbreeze Dec 27 2003, 10:40 PM Don't think so..... but you are a sweetheart for saying so. Posted by: Lanakila Dec 28 2003, 03:35 AM The Christian way I have done for 18 years. As a single xian adult I never even thought about sex, or at least not too often. Then I met my husband and we thought about it alot while dating. Course we never did anything, and hardly even kissed for fear of breaking the rules. I didn't really know how far to go, so we didn't. Then we got married, and suddenly had each other. Between having babies and life we learned about each other. The problems with xianity and its restrictions didn't really affect either him or I for a long time. But denying that other people are attractive can grate on you. Expecting one person to meet all the needs in you, is way too much IMO. Pretending that its the womans fault for being beautiful, or the man's fault for having a nice ass, may make you feel better, but its not reality. There are some damn good looking people with kick ass bodies out there, even without porn, so acting like there not there, is just going to cause you to live in a dream world. Not only that the freedom to look doesn't do damage to your own sex life, in fact it makes it better. Looking at porn together even makes it better. Masturbating is a good thing for a marriage, especially for the woman, because then she can teach her partner the best ways to please her. This is what all the sex therapists say, unless of course they are xian. Then they are just sexually repressed, and teaching everyone else to be so too. I don't really think its the xians fault, its the sexually repressive book. Dump the book and you will have a better sex life. Posted by: Lokmer Dec 28 2003, 10:24 AM Something that I learned slowly over the course of my marriage: Love (real love) is not a zero sum game. The idea that it is is perhaps one of the most perniscious lies propogated by pop Christianity. The idea that marriage is a sacred covenant that needs a strong wall around it is the biggest pile of shit our society at large buys in to, and it causes a lot of problems. When you truly love someone, when you are able to freely enjoy who they are - their body, their mind, their deep bluesy self - your appetite for people grows, it does not diminish. Not only that, it makes you more attractive to people when you just realx and enjoy people for who they are (or, to put it another way, I've never been hit on as much as I have in the last three years since I figured this out). Truly loving one person teaches you how to truly love any person, it does not bottle you up. And truly enjoying someone does not mean that you have a deep and meaningful relationship with everyone who crosses your path. If I walk by a gorgeous woman with amazing hips or a beautiful neck (two things about women that really get me), I notice, and my day gets just a little brighter. If my wife is with me (assuming she doesn't notice first and point her out to me), I point the woman out to her and we both enjoy. Once in a great while, when I'm really taken aback by a lady, I'll go up to her and say "Excuse me, don't mean to bother you. I just wanted to tell you that you're very beautiful and seeing you made my day brighter." And then I walk away. I've had guys do that to models I'm working with on photo shoots (What is it about a camera that makes whoever is in front of it more attractive to people? ;) ), or, more often, they'll come up to me and tell me "Your woman is really beautiful" at which point I say "She's not mine. Tell her yourself," unless the guy is really creepy, then I get rid of him. I have many girlfriends - my wife has many girlfriends and boyfriends - some are snugglebuddies, some are very deep friendships, some relationships that have a romantic flavor. The physical intimacy generally grows out of the relationship. My wife and I have only one rule: Don't do anything you wouldn't want to tell the other about at the end of the day. We are free to do whatever, except treat someone else like shit (my wife would kill me if she ever heard of me treating a woman badly). So far, neither of has taken on any lovers, but that's not out of the picture - if it was, that's another wall of falseness that goes up in our other relationships. Both of us are in love with other people as well as each other, and I wouldn't have it any other way. Love is not posession, it is a sharing thing. Now, not everyone is built to deal with an emotionally open marraige - many people have deep insecurity issues that make jealousy an insurmountable obstacle. But what pop Xianity does is take that unhealthy paradigm and try to make it the healthy norm, and that's deeply sick. Even if an emotionally open marriage is not in the cards, the process of learning to love and maintain friendships is good for everyone involved. Sexuality is a part of every relationship, whether in a look, a hug, a lilt of the voice, etc. Ignoring that is what gets people in to troubles and affairs. Instead of ignoring it, learn to enjoy it for what it is, and relax. Learn to bask in the glow of another person. Enjoy their body, their mind, their heart. That is how you love somebody, and they will be able to tell. Most people go their whole lives without someone who enjoys them just because they're who they are. Someone who truly enjoys others attracts people and has a fuller life for it. -Lokmer Posted by: Reach Dec 28 2003, 03:02 PM QUOTE (Lokmer @ Dec 28 2003, 10:24 AM) When you truly love someone, when you are able to freely enjoy who they are - their body, their mind, their deep bluesy self - your appetite for people grows, it does not diminish. Not only that, it makes you more attractive to people when you just [relax] and enjoy people for who they are... Truly loving one person teaches you how to truly love any person, it does not bottle you up. Reading through some of the threads in this sex forum has been a real eye opener. I simply did not grow up in a fundamentalist setting and the only lessons I remember hearing were, "Beware. Boys will be boys and save yourself for marriage." That wasn't much to go on, but based on many of the things I read here, now I'm glad I heard so little on the topic from my parents. While I did not "save" myself for marriage, nevertheless, as far as I can tell, I stepped freely into my adult sexuality and its expression without too much excess tonnage and repression from external sources, religious or otherwise. I've always been free from Victorian attitudes and prudish ways. My parents, for the most part, seemed to view sex as a source of joy and pleasure and NOT simply a means of repopulating the world. I'm sure I learned more from their attitudes and behavior since my mother was shy about speaking much on the subject. I can relate to almost all of Lokmer's post and add one thing... I think I gained even greater freedom here by learning to completely embrace who I am, my entire emerging and changing person, my body, my mind and my "deep bluesy self" (to borrow Lokmer's phraseology). I've found that to the degree that I am able to accept or love myself, to that same degree people I come into contact with are easier to accept or love as well. My "appetite for people" has grown tremendously and I enjoy them so much more for who they are, rather than seeking to change them. Posted by: ~Josalo~ Dec 28 2003, 05:25 PM You guys make me horney.... Posted by: GodzillaBless Dec 29 2003, 03:29 AM Someone should start carding a few fucking teenagers for this site. Posted by: ~Josalo~ Dec 29 2003, 09:44 AM Go suck a dick (_)_)llllllllllllllD~~~~~ ~~ `~~~~```~~~~ Posted by: Vixentrox Dec 29 2003, 12:07 PM You say it like oral sex is a bad thing. Posted by: ~Josalo~ Dec 29 2003, 06:00 PM it is when you get a big ass STD on your tongue Posted by: GodzillaBless Dec 30 2003, 05:07 AM Go shovel the snow like your mommy said, before I really get nasty........ Posted by: michelle Dec 30 2003, 09:31 AM Josalo, You sound very rebellious, sometimes thats needed but I hope for the sake of your own ass you dont take it too far. Ever hear of an old rock band called Def Leppard? They had a song called "Lets Get Rocked" Its a really good song if it was written by a teenager but its not so good if it was written by men in their 30's LOL Just a word of caution here, not that you'll listen, LOL but I work in fast food and you know what I hear the guys in their 20's shouting out loud all the time... "STAY IN SCHOOL!" Peace. Michelle Posted by: ~Josalo~ Dec 30 2003, 03:16 PM Listen to what now? Powered by Invision Power Board (http://www.invisionboard.com) © Invision Power Services (http://www.invisionpower.com)

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