| Printable Version of Topic
Click here to view this topic in its original format |
| Open Forums for ExChristian.Net > Old Board > Covert Apostate |
| Posted by: sexkitten Oct 15 2004, 03:19 PM |
| Printable Version of Topic Click here to view this topic in its original format ExChristian.Net Open Forums > Religious Family members > Covert Apostate Posted by: I_See_Dead_People Jul 19 2003, 03:28 PM My parent's have no idea that I am an apostate. It is best that I keep it that way, becuase it means so much to my parents. Do you have a similar situation with your family? Matthew also has a similar situation to mine, and I think he would be happy to tell you about it. -Stephen U. Posted by: woodsmoke Jul 19 2003, 05:12 PM I'm not sure exactly where I would stand on this. My parents know that I no longer attend church, which would be hard to hide due to the fact that I still live in their house. However, they don't know that I now define myself as not only ex-Xian, but also as an apatheist. Maybe I'll tell them one of these days, but so long as they think I'm only inactive, the church will be relatively lukewarm to me. If they learned my totally uncaring and cynical views, I think the whole thing would bring down a lot more trouble than it's worth. Posted by: I_See_Dead_People Jul 19 2003, 05:46 PM QUOTE I'm not sure exactly where I would stand on this. My parents know that I no longer attend church, which would be hard to hide due to the fact that I still live in their house. I am fortunate that I have a work around for that church problem. I decided to emphasize on Christians who don’t go to church and tell my father how an organized approach is not right for me. The argument worked perfectly and my father is unsuspecting of my current belief system. You might want to try that approach with you parents to keep them at ease. QUOTE However, they don't know that I now define myself as not only ex-Christian, but also as an apatheist. Maybe I'll tell them one of these days, but so long as they think I'm only inactive, the church will be relatively lukewarm to me. If they learned my totally uncaring and cynical views, I think the whole thing would bring down a lot more trouble than it's worth. I totally agree with you. Bringing the house down is definitely more trouble than it is worth. I think that the best time to tell you parents is when you are living on your own. The best way to prove your worth to your parents is by living your life to the max and making them appreciate who you are. As for your cynical and uncaring views: I think that you may still be under the influence of the church. Fortunately, there is an easy solution, which is to differentiate that instilled view from the sum of your personality. -Stephen U. Posted by: spidermonkey Jul 19 2003, 06:35 PM i'm with woodsmoke on this one. Although my parents know that I do not attend church regularly and that I do not place much importance on religion, I haven't "come out" as an atheist. Telling my family would be more trouble than it's worth. I'll wait until I live on my own far, far away before I share Posted by: DuFFMaN Jul 19 2003, 06:59 PM My mom once walked in on me while on was on this site. She asked me why I was on here, when I replied,"Because I'm an exchristian" she said,"What?" I then said,"I am an Atheist." And she says,"No your not." I said,"Yes, I am." She then walks out of the room and doesn't talk to me for the rest of the day. The next afternoon she comes up to me and says, "I don't want you going on that site anymore." To avoid an argument I said I would, and I have ever since...as long as she's in the room. Posted by: likeafish Jul 19 2003, 07:48 PM I sometimes envy those of you who are younger in this situation, and feel rather pathetic at my age making such a radical course corrction (I'm 42). I don't know if I will ever tell my mother about where I am with religion, let alone the rest of my family. My father is losing his mind. My mom has to take care of him now after he always took care of her. My father was a pastor, as was his father and his father, all the way back to Germany when they sent missionaries to the US in the 19th century to start churches for the German immigrants. My family is steeped in religion. It is in every crack and crevice of our family history and identity and to leave the faith would be like leavng the family and a culture of sorts. heritage might be a better word. (anything sounding familiar Woodsmoke?) So I play it lukewarm, which I get away with. But at times, like I said, it feels pathetic. There are moments when I want to just say "NO!" no more of this bullshit! I was always a trouble-maker, even when I was towing the line. It's hard to explain. But it means that it may end up being no big deal when I finally say "You know, I don't believe it anymore. i haven't for years." I have the luxury of living away from my family which helps. I think I pour myself into this site for one reason because I want to be prepared for that day, so that when I do fess up it won't be a scary or doubtful or emotional thing but a confident and calm, matter-of-fact confrontation. I hope so anyway. Steve Posted by: I_See_Dead_People Jul 19 2003, 08:17 PM QUOTE I sometimes envy those of you who are younger in this situation, and feel rather pathetic at my age making such a radical course correction (I'm 42). That makes me glad that I’m not so old. Changing at such a late age is would be like quitting marijuana after using it your entire life. QUOTE I don't know if I will ever tell my mother about where I am with religion, let alone the rest of my family. My father is losing his mind. My mom has to take care of him now after he always took care of her. My father was a pastor, as was his father and his father, all the way back to Germany when they sent missionaries to the US in the 19th century to start churches for the German immigrants. My family is steeped in religion. It is in every crack and crevice of our family history and identity and to leave the faith would be like leaving the family and a culture of sorts. Heritage might be a better word. (Anything sounding familiar Woodsmoke?) So I play it lukewarm, which I get away with. That very similar to what I have to go through. Leaving my faith has forever changed the course of my future. My family will (If I decide to get married) not be based upon a Christian values system. Instead I will start a new bloodline from the ground up that will contribute plenty of good to the world. My family will be a new breed of freedom fighters. QUOTE But at times, like I said, it feels pathetic. There are moments when I want to just say "NO!" no more of this bullshit! I was always a troublemaker, even when I was towing the line. It's hard to explain. But it means that it may end up being no big deal when I finally say "You know, I don't believe it anymore. I haven't for years." When the time is appropriate, it will be safe to tell your family. That time is up to you so make the right choice. Good Luck. QUOTE I have the luxury of living away from my family, which helps. I think I pour myself into this site for one reason because I want to be prepared for that day, so that when I do fess up it won't be a scary or doubtful or emotional thing but a confident and calm, matter-of-fact confrontation. I hope so anyway. Steve I too prepare for that same day. I wish to be solid before I come clean with my parents. -Stephen U. Posted by: Matthew Jul 19 2003, 08:28 PM I can relate to Stephen's post. I am the only ex-Christian in my family. My brothers know I am no longer a Christian..my dad knows I am skeptical and do not attend Church anymore. But I haven't told my sister or my mother. If I told my mother...she'd become emotionally devastated and nag me into faith again. I wouldn't share biblical criticism with her..out of fear of what that would do to her. As for my sister..I would never tell her either. She would be devastated about my apostacy and if I shared the basis for it..well..I am not sure how she would handle her own beliefs grinded to dust. So for now..I just keep it a secret. I am still living at home, despite my loathing of it! I wish I could just get my degree so I can live in peace! Posted by: malisamb Jul 20 2003, 12:58 AM That is funny. I would give anything to live at home with my mom again! I live alone now. And it gets cold sometimes. But I am still in search for the perfect person to share my life with. I didn't tell my mom for the same reasons. The thought of disappointing her just made me sick. My advice looking back is, you don't want to hurt the ones you love. So don't. mb Posted by: spidermonkey Jul 20 2003, 11:06 AM The only person in my family who knows that I am an exchristian is my brother. He left the church a few years before I did, and he feels the same way I do about xtianity, although not as strongly. My mom does not attend church because of all the politics and cliquey bullshit, but she still identifies heself as a christian. She knows that I dislike church for the same reasons, but she doesn't know that I don't believe anymore! I don't want to tell her, though, because I also don't want to let my mother down. My father has always been known to find fault in my brother and me no matter what we do, so I'd like to be in the good graces of at least one parent. Posted by: woodsmoke Jul 20 2003, 01:16 PM QUOTE I totally agree with you. Bringing the house down is definitely more trouble than it is worth. I think that the best time to tell you parents is when you are living on your own. The best way to prove your worth to your parents is by living your life to the max and making them appreciate who you are. As for your cynical and uncaring views: I think that you may still be under the influence of the church. Fortunately, there is an easy solution, which is to differentiate that instilled view from the sum of your personality. You're right, of course, I am still in some ways ruled by the church. I like to think I'm getting better, though, albeit slowly and painstakingly. I really don't have much cynicism left in me, it's mostly been replaced with apatheistic lack of concern for the whole deal. "You do your thing, I'll do mine, we don't try to shove our things onto each other, and we're all happy." Actually, there is one family member who knows about my views; my cousin, who, similar to SM, left the church before me when her parents divorced. It's nice to be able to speak with her candidly and have no worries of rebuttal when I criticize the church or just swear/profane. Posted by: I_See_Dead_People Jul 20 2003, 03:55 PM QUOTE Actually, there is one family member who knows about my views; my cousin, who, similar to SM, left the church before me when her parents divorced. It's nice to be able to speak with her candidly and have no worries of rebuttal when I criticize the church or just swear/profane. That's a good thing. You should discuss your objections with this member of your family, so that you can release your built up frustration and anger. If you speak with her often, you can accelerate your deprogramming, perhaps. -Stephen U. Posted by: fortunehooks Jul 21 2003, 09:27 AM my family is real intent on staying mental slaves to the establishment. i can relate with you all on this issue. i still live at home, i'm attending college. i plan on moving away in 2004 to attend a better university. i was straight to the point with my decision with the folks. i told them i don't believe the entrapment that was held over my life for years. at the age of 15 i became skeptical of the whole idea. i'm now 21 and feel great about my honesty. i could not live for them so i didn't give two f's about how they took it. every situation is different for me i'm the confrontational type and was always wierd to a fault. i never thought like everyone else. when i first started school i was placed in special education classes until i graduated high school. i am a gifted student so i guess that's where i got my inquiring mind. it' must be upsetting to you all who have to subtract yourselves so others would feel safe around you. happy trails to all of you i hope you come to grips about the decisions to tell your families. Posted by: I_See_Dead_People Jul 21 2003, 09:54 AM QUOTE My family is real intent on staying mental slaves to the establishment. I can relate with you all on this issue. I still live at home, I’m attending college. I plan on moving away in 2004 to attend a better university. I was straight to the point with my decision with the folks. QUOTE I told them I don't believe the entrapment that was held over my life for years. At the age of 15 I became skeptical of the whole idea. I’m now 21 and feel great about my honesty. I could not live for them Let’s have a round of applause for Forturehooks! You were very brave to state your doubts to you parent’s faces. It’s more trouble than it is worth for me to do that because my parents dedicated my life to raising me as a Christian. If I came out of the closet right now, I would have a disaster to deal with, but you did what all of us would like to do. QUOTE So I didn't give two F’s about how they took it. Every situation is different for me I’m the confrontational type and was always weird to a fault. I never thought like everyone else. When I first started school I was placed in special education classes until I graduated high school. I used to be a major troublemaker in Jr. high School, but that was what made me so popular. When I graduated from Jr. high, I got extra applause at the ceremony. When I first started high school, I too was placed in a special education class. I don’t blame them either, because I was a real nutcase and I still don’t understand why I was so off the wall. QUOTE I am a gifted student so I guess that's where I got my inquiring mind. It must be upsetting to you all who have to subtract yourselves so others would feel safe around you. Happy trails to all of you I hope you come to grips about the decisions to tell your families. Now you don’t have to use your gifts to kiss the churches butt. Use those gifts anyway you wish. Thank you and happy trails to you too. Stay cool, Stephen U. Posted by: txmex2003 Jul 23 2003, 05:22 AM Yes, I am a closet apostate. With my Independent Baptist family, it is much better this way. I live so far away from them that it is easy to keep it quiet, but if they were to find out, they would disown me. I've seen it happen with others in my family. I keep it quiet here at home for now, because it would be difficult for my teenage children to understand. They are so devoted to their belief, i think it would be too difficult for them. For me, right now, it is not worth the pain it would cause others, so I keep quiet. Posted by: Vixentrox Jul 25 2003, 07:04 AM My family knows or suspects. I've gotten into it with my mom several times already. I don't think they understand the "depths to which I have fallen" from xtianinty though. My Mom and Aunt are coming for a visit next month. Wonder what they will say about my bumber sticker "When relion ruled the world they called it the dark ages"? Posted by: I_See_Dead_People Jul 25 2003, 09:11 AM (SEE "TOTAL MELTDOWN") This topic is now outdated for my needs, since I am no longer hiding from my family. Exposing myself was one of the most daring things I have done in my entire life. Since monday, My blood pressure has been 154/104 from hypertension. -Stephen U. Posted by: Vixentrox Jul 25 2003, 10:19 AM Stephan exposed himself.....STREAKER!!! Posted by: ISDP_Phantom Jul 25 2003, 10:26 AM "I'm...too sexy for my shirt...too sexy for my..." UM....never mind!! -Stephen U. Posted by: mandylibra1979 Jul 25 2003, 10:41 AM I really don't feel the need to tell my family about the fact that I am agnostic. Awhile back I told my Mom but I don't think she was really listening to me; it was as she didn't even want to hear what I was saying. The only reason I told my Mom is because I felt a need to be honest with her and because she is one of the few people I talk with. If my family and friends were to ask me , I would most likely tell them but I don't feel a need to go out of my to let ALL of my family members and friends know my take on religion. Posted by: User Aug 2 2003, 02:00 PM Well, thankfully, my "coming out" was a bit easier because my father is agnostic and supports my intellectual growth and quest for enlightenment fully. My mother, on the other hand, is a devout Christian. I'm sure it's broken her heart that I don't attend Church anymore, and that I have openly renounced Jesus Christ. I feel bad, but I cannot become a Christian to please her. I've told her years ago that I wasn't a Christian, yet it still shocked her recently when I told her I didn't believe in Jesus. Fortunately, I think she is finally beginning to accept my beliefs. But I don't know what I'd do if BOTH my parents were devout Christians.... Posted by: I_See_Dead_People Aug 2 2003, 02:12 PM QUOTE (User @ Aug 2 2003, 03:00 PM) Well, thankfully, my "coming out" was a bit easier because my father is agnostic and supports my intellectual growth and quest for enlightenment fully. My mother, on the other hand, is a devout Christian. I'm sure it's broken her heart that I don't attend Church anymore, and that I have openly renounced Jesus Christ. I feel bad, but I cannot become a Christian to please her. I've told her years ago that I wasn't a Christian, yet it still shocked her recently when I told her I didn't believe in Jesus. Fortunately, I think she is finally beginning to accept my beliefs. But I don't know what I'd do if BOTH my parents were devout Christians.... Hey User, I really enjoyed your anti-testamony. I find it a little more than coincidental that you posted here right after I finished reading you anti-testamony. After reading your testamony, I found that your experience in leaving the fold runs along the same line as my experince. -Stephen U. Posted by: lostandconfused Sep 14 2003, 11:15 AM i can't ever tell my parents. i don't want to have to put them through believing that i'm going to hell. as far as i've gone has been rejecting church but i can't tell them i don't believe the bible anymore. sometimes i really wish i could believe again. i miss that feeling of unity, of being part of a subculture. most importantly i hate the fact that i have to mostly live a lie until my parents die. but then i think about the constant guilt that comes from being christian, the constant "conviction" about not living up to "what God wants of me". i can't go back. damned if i do, damned if i don't. Posted by: TexasFreethinker Sep 14 2003, 06:39 PM QUOTE (lostandconfused @ Sep 14 2003, 02:15 PM) i can't ever tell my parents. i don't want to have to put them through believing that i'm going to hell. L&C, I know where you are coming from. I waited for years to tell my mother because I felt like she'd be completely destroyed by the news. She didn't take it well in the beginning, but at least I don't have to hide an important part of myself from her any longer. In the end I decided that it wasn't fair for me to withhold something based on how I thought she would react. I turned it around and asked myself if I'd like her (or any other family member for that matter) to "protect" me from something hurtful in their life, or if I'd rather them get it out in the open so we could all start dealing with it. I'm writing this just to give you another point of view. I don't know what's right in your situation - you'll have to be the judge of that. I do know, though, that trying to keep an important part of yourself hidden from those who are closest to you is very difficult to keep up for a long time. I don't know how comfortable you are in your "non-faith" at this point. If your deconversion is recent you may be better off firming up your own reasons for why you believe what you believe before you reveal everything to your parents. That will give you time to gain confidence and have some facts to back up your new position. I wish you the best. Posted by: .:WebMaster:. Sep 15 2003, 12:09 AM I think age helps as well. As a young person I felt very uncomfortable telling my parents anything that I knew they would not approve of. Now in middle age, I don't have any problem with it. Conversely, when I was younger so were they. They didn't receive my differing view points very well back then. Now that they are elderly, nothing seems to rattle them anymore, at least not like it would have years ago. Posted by: Tezkah Sep 20 2003, 12:52 PM I saw an interesting article on http://www.atheists.org/ called "http://www.atheists.org/comingout/othercloset.html" This probably applies to many people on the boards, who were in a situation like IDSP was, and Matthew is... Posted by: Guest_GodzillaBless Oct 19 2003, 04:28 PM I told my mom I don't do the religion thing anymore. She goes Yes you will. I said no I wont. She goes yes you will. I had to get off the phone. So I wrote her this letter. Dear Mom Please forgive me for not getting back to you right away. I am a lazy good for nothing piece of shit. Now, with that mea culpa out of the way I will attempt to clarify my position... I have adopted a mindset that emphasizes personal responsibility and de-emphasizes passing the buck to God for my good deeds or to Satan for my not so good deeds. For example when I was homeless I didn't plead with God to send me a job, I went out and got one. When I am late with my rent because Scott's stupid piece of crap broke down I don't pray to god to soften my landlord's heart. I go to the landlord myself, explain the situation, explain that I'm stuck paying the bill for that as usual and that I will get him his rent money ASAFP. As I have never missed a month's rent, never stiffed a landlord, never put one off with a bunch of bullshit excuses and always try to pay on time, I have never had one throw me out or even so much as penalize me for being late. They know they'll get their money because they know they can count on what I'm saying. When I screw up, and hurt a friend, I don't ask God's forgiveness. I go directly to the friend to make amends for what I've done. Also I don't spend my life worrying about what's going to happen in the future. What matters is what's before me NOW. What matters is what's happening in this country NOW. I fully plan on getting shot for speaking the unvarnished truth. It might happen, it might not. But I don't expect a reward for doing the right thing, for speaking the truth. I speak the truth because its RIGHT. Expecting a reward makes it a mercenary matter. Love God or don't love God. But leave the rewards out of it. Numbers of believers don't exactly impress me, either. A lie, believed by one is still a lie. A lie believed by 100 is still a lie. A lie believed by 1,000,000 is still a lie. And a lie believed by the whole world is *surprise* still a lie. I personally believe that Christianity is the biggest lie ever perpetuated on mankind. I know it has resulted in a 20-century long bloodbath. Countless Jews fallen before Hitler. Before that, it was Catholics killing Protestants, Turks, and others in the Inquisition. We're waging war now in the name of Christ on Iraq, Iran, and Afghanistan... under false pretenses. Is this the legacy of the Prince of Peace? To have killed innocent Iraqi women and children, and sacrifice our own brave warriors, on the altar of a Christian nation based on a lie? As Mr. Spock would put it, "I find this most illogical." Israel doesn't merit any less of an investigation. Seems to me that you have no problem with cold blooded murder as long as its the Palestinians gettin hit and not the Jews. I have a problem with the death of ANY human being. And I'll admit I'm racist as hell. I don't like blacks, or Indians (monkey shits) or even Middle Easterners, whose brains are so baked out of their heads they came up with the concept of Allah... but I have a problem with justifying ANYBODY'S murder. Would you want to be forced out of wherever you were living by some group saying God gave them the land your house stands on? Oh but if they're Jewish its' alright, right? / You'd move without a peep right, into a foreign country no less, right? Well from my experience moving royally SUCKS -- and I just left the damn state! It presents a huge hardship on all involved. I don't have much sympathy at all for Israel. If it were up to me I'd yank all foreign aid to them ASAP. They are more than capable of taking care of their own affairs themselves. You think I'm spewing blasphemy no doubt. I haven't even started. What's truly blasphemous is worshiping any kind of a God who enjoys watching people die horribly for his own amusement. Even his own Son, no less. If I were God I'm not sure I could bring myself to put my son on a cross to suffer such an excruciating death such as the one Jesus suffered. Put it this way: if I so much as raised a hand to the kid, they'd take him away from me ASAP! And his followers aren't much better than He is. Columbus' idea of evangelizing the Indians was to have his men rob, rape, kill and sell into slavery the Arawaks (which are extinct today thanks to the plague) Many Indians turned to alcohol, converted to Christianity or outright committed suicide. They were doing just fine before he came along. Where are they now? Crammed into miserable slums called reservations -- living in squalor, trying to live the bare minimum, and trying to fight off the government's attempts to get them to collect state taxes on their sales of cigarettes and gasoline!! Their language, their culture, and their way of life -- GONE!!! This is Christ's love in action. If you have any ear toward truth, then I hope you hear. Anyway that's my two cents. Connie Posted by: copyboy Oct 21 2003, 02:09 PM My family members were amused when I said I was'nt a Christian anymore.But when they were unable to answer some of my questions,they became unamused and said I was knocking their beliefs. Now they've censored me completly on the subject. Posted by: TexasFreethinker Oct 21 2003, 03:11 PM QUOTE (copyboy @ Oct 21 2003, 05:09 PM) My family members were amused when I said I was'nt a Christian anymore.But when they were unable to answer some of my questions,they became unamused and said I was knocking their beliefs. Now they've censored me completly on the subject. Welcome to the group, Copyboy. It is interesting how people become defensive when they are forced to recognize just how ignorant they are of the issues, history and foundations of their own religious beliefs. So many people just take it for granted that christianity is ok, since everyone else "is doing it". It's only after they are challenged and have to start justifying their beliefs that they realize that there are serious problems. Most people react negatively to this situation, but at least they've been forced to take the first step on a path of investigation and questioning that could lead them out of the fog. Posted by: GodzillaBless Oct 22 2003, 07:05 AM My mother's reaction to my letter is as follows: I call her house. My stepdad answers. "I don't know if she wants to talk to you," he says. I say "Ha ha put her on the phone." She gets on the phone and we are chatting merrily about whatever: the kids, what a dick my ex is, etc. (She did like my roasting a pig head picture! to see what I'm talking about visit the second page of the Friends of ExChristian.net gallery -- my best work yet!) The letter is never mentioned, nor is my rejection of Christianity, yet I can sense an exasperated "What am I gonna do with you" undertone. My mother typically ignores anything that is not pleasant for her to have to deal with. She buries her head in the sand so to speak. Has pissed off my children's stepmother with said ostrich behavior by running off into the laundry room when she's around. (Believe me when I tell you there is absolutely no love lost between the two.) I have a feeling this is gonna be dogboned too and that she's going to tell the family I'm a satanist or something. Oh well -- let her. not my problem since I don't depend on any of these people for my sustanence. Posted by: Kevin Nov 1 2003, 11:32 PM I served as an ordained, fundamentalist, Baptist preacher for almost 10 years. 6 of those years I served on the foreign field (Chile) as a missionary. Fundamentalism almost destroyed my family. Serving in Chile gave me some time away from the "brethren" in the US. I began to gradually re-examine everything I had learned, and it wasn't long before I realized I no longer believed. I was scared to death to tell my family about my new found lack of faith. I went for about two years hiding it, until one day I told my daughter (16) casually that I no longer believed (I had since left the ministry). That same day my whole family found out that I had "lost my faith", and was I ever surprised to find that they were also just as Atheist as I was. One of my daughters pointed out that for about a year while we were all still praying before meals none of us believed in whom we were praying to. We were just afraid to admit that to each other, so we all kept up the charade. This is the REAL power behind religion. . . .those group dynamics will keep you in place. I'm new to being "open" about being an atheist. I live in Arizona, and am wondering if there are any groups where I could meet others who think like I do. Let me say that abandoning religion has been the best thing for my family. We are more united than ever, and actually enjoy each other now. Imagine that!! I gotta say that I haven't told anybody outside my immediate family, but it won't be long. My kids have made it a crusade to tell all of the neighbors and their teachers at school that they are nonbelievers. I can only imagine what Thanksgiving will be like this year!! klb Posted by: .:WebMaster:. Nov 2 2003, 05:54 AM I empathize with your challenge as you redefine your life. If you haven't already read it, you might want to pick up a copy of Dan Barker's book: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1877733075/exchrisnetenc-20/104-7301315-7992742 I do not personally know of any groups near your address, but if do a search on google.com for atheist groups, you will find plenty out there who I am sure can help you with your search. In the mean time, please feel welcome here. Posted by: TexasFreethinker Nov 2 2003, 06:48 AM Welcome to the group Kevin. It's incredible that your entire family became non-believers yet no one knew what the others were thinking. I'm from a Southern Baptist family, and my entire immediate family know about my deconversion, but it's completely ignored most of the time. Talk about denial! Good luck at Thanksgiving! Posted by: vugizoview Nov 2 2003, 12:24 PM Hi Kevin, I grew up on the mission field. My parents ran mission hospitals for various mission boards. All the time growing up, I felt that our religion did not fit me. Something was irreconcilable between it and myself. I did what I'd been taught to do: interpret this as some failure on MY part . . . In the last two or three years of my father's life, he became disillusioned with religion, and knew that it was not the answer. However, he didn't have a community where he could express his growing doubt about it all. I'm the one in the family now who has been able to move out. But it's been a very difficult road. But it is the only thing I could do to find peace within my own being. I'm so glad you and your children have found this freedom together. I can only imagine what it would have been like to come to adulthood unencumbered of religion. Posted by: pitchu Nov 2 2003, 06:37 PM For face-to-face contact, you might try http://atheist.meetup.com Now yours is the kind of heartwarming seasonal made-for-tv family movie I'd like to see! Posted by: fortunehooks Nov 2 2003, 06:54 PM kevin: welcome to the forums, and this website courtesy of the webmaster. talk about something that you go into thinking it's going to be so hard and it turns into a breeze. great story on how after the truth is actually told your family became closer. oh by the way it is extremely hot in arizona. oh about that daughter, you know the one 16 yr.old, nah i'm just kidding kevin don't get all overprotective on me. seriously enjoy yourself man, love the family and all the other stuff that we classify as being good to us individually. Posted by: Kevin Nov 2 2003, 08:22 PM Thanks for all of your replies. I was kind of schocked to find my post on the first page of the site. At first I thought "what if some of my old fundy friends come across it?" Then I thought: "Who cares!!" I hope that we can enjoy more of this mutual fellowship. But now I have to ask a question: I read the quote from G. Bush Sr. while he was VP under Reagan. Has anybody out there faced social, political, or economic ostracism for their lack of faith? klb Posted by: pitchu Nov 2 2003, 09:40 PM QUOTE (Kevin @ Nov 2 2003, 08:22 PM) Has anybody out there faced social, political, or economic ostracism for their lack of faith? Only those three. Posted by: Guest Nov 3 2003, 01:21 AM I think this "going along with the flow" response is one of the reasons so many people describe themselves as christians... It's an admirable show of courage to step out of the dark like your family has, and I hope that you all find the intellectual stimulation you need outwith the church. Posted by: FreeFromChrist Nov 3 2003, 01:23 AM I think this "going along with the flow" response is one of the reasons so many people describe themselves as christians... It's an admirable show of courage to step out of the dark like your family has, and I hope that you all find the intellectual stimulation you need outwith the church. Posted by: Libertus Nov 3 2003, 01:41 PM QUOTE (Kevin @ Nov 2 2003, 08:22 PM) But now I have to ask a question: I read the quote from G. Bush Sr. while he was VP under Reagan. Has anybody out there faced social, political, or economic ostracism for their lack of faith? Sorry, but I have to vent. Every time I am reminded about this it kinda gets me fuming. This blatantly unconstitutional and infamous quote was made by him as VP (a "sworn" Constitutional Officer {of the second highest degree}), and now he is being honored by having a Navy Aircraft Carrier named after him. Arrrgghh! Now, that's justice. How about all of those atheist sailors (who according to him should not be citizens, despite the constitution's guarentee to the contrary) who will have live and work on that ship every day. Xpen Posted by: TexasFreethinker Nov 3 2003, 02:31 PM QUOTE (Kevin @ Nov 2 2003, 11:22 PM) But now I have to ask a question: I read the quote from G. Bush Sr. while he was VP under Reagan. Has anybody out there faced social, political, or economic ostracism for their lack of faith? As an atheist in Texas I'm not allowed to hold public office because our state constitution would require me to "acknowledge the existence of a Supreme Being" (Article 1 Section 4). I don't know if that religious requirement is actually enforced or not, but it is still part of our state law. I think there are a few other states that still have similar laws on the books. Posted by: pitchu Nov 3 2003, 02:53 PM QUOTE (xpen @ Nov 3 2003, 01:41 PM) How about all of those atheist sailors (who according to him should not be citizens, despite the constitution's guarentee to the contrary) who will have live and work on that ship every day. Couldn't agree more, Xpen. But! For a little heart-cockle warming, you might take a gander at http://www.uga.edu/bahai/2002/020815-1.html It tells us that "Our federal government carves atheist-affirming emblems into the gravestones of qualified veterans." It's pretty funny reading, too, at one point describing the atheist emblem as looking like "a logo for a nuclear power plant". Posted by: Libertus Nov 3 2003, 04:10 PM Thanks Pitchu, Learn something new every day. Things are improving, I suppose, but they still can't get Atheist put on their dog tags unless they buy them from somewhere else. They have to put "no rel pref" (no religious preference) on them if they don't have a religion. Oh well, "One day at a tiiimmme, sweet . . . candy". Sorry, that was horrible, but the song popped into my head, and I had to screw it up somehow. Xpen Posted by: treehugger36 Nov 3 2003, 04:57 PM Lets see. Am I hiding my new found 'faith'? Hmmm... YES?! I wouldnt say I am nearly as far along as most of y'all but nonetheless I am still keeping mine a secret from family and friends. I know my fam would toss a fit. As many of you said, I cant imagine doing that to my mother. However I feel the same way about my girlfriend. She is a new christian and i know it really hurts her when I tell her about my beliefs. (She knows SOME not all) My friends... hmm, seeing how still in Bible college that might not be a smart idea huh? Some would be cool with it but I know 95% of the school would flip. I dont see the need in pissin people off. I just want to learn more and be more grounded in this new stuff I am figuring out. Posted by: Matthew Nov 4 2003, 10:45 PM I understand closet apostacy to a good extent..I deconverted sometime late November/early December of 2002 but yet I didn't tell my dad until some time afterwords. I first told my brother Dan and then my brother Drew and then until after I felt I had nothing to fear..finally I told my dad. I didn't feel in the least that I was dishonest..but I feel bad about not telling my dad right away. I doubt I did anything wrong...but is not telling someone right away and even hiding it for perhaps a few months or so any kind of dishonesty? Matthew Posted by: AggieNostic Nov 7 2003, 06:01 AM QUOTE (Kevin @ Nov 2 2003, 02:32 AM) My kids have made it a crusade to tell all of the neighbors and their teachers at school that they are nonbelievers. I can only imagine what Thanksgiving will be like this year!! Tread softly here. Ex-believers (of any religion), if not careful, can end up being as zealous, fanatical and closed-minded in their new found unbelief as they were in their old belief. I'm not saying that is or has happened to you. I'm just throwing the caveat out because I've seen my share of intolerant and bigoted non-believers in my time. They were virtually all ex-some-faith-or-other. Posted by: AggieNostic Nov 7 2003, 06:08 AM QUOTE (xpen @ Nov 3 2003, 04:41 PM) QUOTE (Kevin @ Nov 2 2003, 08:22 PM) But now I have to ask a question: I read the quote from G. Bush Sr. while he was VP under Reagan. Has anybody out there faced social, political, or economic ostracism for their lack of faith? Sorry, but I have to vent. Every time I am reminded about this it kinda gets me fuming. This blatantly unconstitutional and infamous quote was made by him as VP ...(a "sworn" Constitutional Officer ... I wouldn't get too worked about Bush Sr.'s remark. He is first and foremost a politician, which means he panders to his base for votes. I've yet to see a politician who doesn't use invoke rhetoric of one sort or another to stir up the passions of those most likely to vote for them. If I got a penny every time a politician picked on one one segment of the population to gain favor in the eyes of another segment, I'd be rich. Posted by: Kevin Nov 7 2003, 08:47 AM [QUOTE=AggieNostic,Nov 7 2003, 06:01 AM][QUOTE=Kevin,Nov 2 2003, 02:32 AM]My kids have made it a crusade to tell all of the neighbors and their teachers at school that they are nonbelievers. I can only imagine what Thanksgiving will be like this year!![/QUOTE] Tread softly here. Ex-believers (of any religion), if not careful, can end up being as zealous, fanatical and closed-minded in their new found unbelief as they were in their old belief. I'm not saying that is or has happened to you. I'm just throwing the caveat out because I've seen my share of intolerant and bigoted non-believers in my time. They were virtually all ex-some-faith-or-other.[/QUOTE] [/QUOTE] I hear you. It IS a struggle. My kids kind of enjoy being little heathen at this point!! In my son's class (he is 13) one of his teachers asked if there was anybody present who did not believe in God. My son was the only one who raised his hand. So far they are all making friends, and have not irritated anybody (to my knowledge anyway). My teenage daughters have had conversations about it with friends. . .. some of whom are trying to reconvert THEM. If they make any enemies, I will help them process it and hopefully they will learn from the social consequences they receive. I was able to come out to my boss a few weeks ago. I used the "coming out" phrase with her because she is gay. They all know of my past experience in the ministry, and everybody so far seems to accept me. No major waves. . .yet. klb Posted by: pitchu Nov 7 2003, 09:24 AM Kevin, Of course there could be consequences for your kids' being so open about their convictions, and I'm sure they have the right father to help them handle those, but supporting them in their recognition that they have as much right to be publicly their authentic selves as does any other American has got to be healthier than encouraging them to suppress their uniqueness. Funny thing, too, that most kids, if not instructed otherwise by their parents, tend to form friendships based on everyday shared enthusiasms, not belief systems. You can tell your kids for me that even though I was considered iconoclastic in high school way back in the unenlightened 1957-1960 years, my senior yearbook is replete with written messages from classmates extolling the importance to their lives to have had someone as "different" as I challenging the teachers and making a general nuisance of myself. Go, kids! Posted by: Consummate Deist Nov 7 2003, 09:46 AM QUOTE I was considered iconoclastic in high school way back in the unenlightened 1957-1960 years At last, someone of my age group - Someone that might actually understand my little asides and jokes! From one ol' fart to another Posted by: pitchu Nov 7 2003, 06:55 PM QUOTE (Consummate Deist @ Nov 7 2003, 09:46 AM) QUOTE I was considered iconoclastic in high school way back in the unenlightened 1957-1960 years At last, someone of my age group - Someone that might actually understand my little asides and jokes! From one ol' fart to another Cheers, CD! I've thought, from some of your posts, that you might be someone who slow danced to "Earth Angel". (But were you and your partner ever tapped by the chaperone and told to leave the floor?) Powered by Invision Power Board (http://www.invisionboard.com) © Invision Power Services (http://www.invisionpower.com) |