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Open Forums for ExChristian.Net > Rants and Replies > Contempt For Gays Unites Black and White Christian

Posted by: erik the awful Nov 8 2004, 07:07 PM

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1317&ncid=742&e=11&u=/ucas/20041107/cm_ucas/contemptforgaysunitesblackandwhitechristians

QUOTE

By Cynthia Tucker

"The Old Testament did sanction slavery. God said, 'Both thy bondmen and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you. ... And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children. ...'" -- "Domestic Slavery Considered as a Scriptural Institution," Rev. Richard Fuller, 1847
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Last Tuesday, there was at least one thing about which blue states and red states, black Americans and white Americans, Northerners and Southerners could agree: Gays and lesbians should be denied the right to full citizenship. Constitutional amendments to ban same-sex unions appeared on the ballot in 11 states and passed easily -- from Michigan, Ohio and Oregon, to Georgia, Mississippi and Arkansas.

It was a triumph for bigotry based on the Bible. From conservative pulpits around the country, pastors had implored their flocks to go to the polls and vote against the "abomination" of homosexuality. They claimed that preventing gays from getting married would shore up the institution among heterosexuals -- though it is not clear how.

It was also a triumph for the Machiavellian madness of Karl Rove. He understood only too well that many Americans were willing to ignore a sputtering economy, a profoundly flawed war and soaring health-care costs for the opportunity to enforce discrimination against a despised minority. Rove also knew that calling out the legions of ultraconservative Christians who abhor equal rights for gays would ensure that President Bush (news - web sites) won not only the Electoral College (news - web sites) but also the popular vote.

And they weren't just white voters. Homophobia oozes across lines of color, linking black America with white in a common contempt masquerading as morality. It is deeply disappointing to see black churchgoers enthusiastically wield the Bible as a bludgeon against another group, since Scripture was also used against us, as a justification for slavery, in the 19th century.
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"In Genesis ... soon after the flood Ham's descendants were doomed by the Almighty to a state of slavery ... and ... the descendants of Shem and Japheth ... were ordained to be their masters." -- "Slavery: Its Origin, Nature and History," Rev. Thornton Stringfellow, 1861
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Indeed, black Christians have become more hostile toward gays over the last decade or so. While 65 percent of black Protestants believed that gays should enjoy equal rights in 1996, that view was held by only 40 percent this year, according to a survey conducted by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life. Among most other religious groups surveyed, including white evangelical Protestants, support for gay rights increased (if only marginally) over the same period.

Ultraconservative black Christians helped make the difference for President Bush in the key state of Ohio. Bush nearly doubled his support among black Ohioans, from 9 percent in 2000 to 16 percent on Tuesday, according to senior analyst David Bositis of the Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies, a Washington think tank specializing in issues of interest to black Americans. That increase -- about 50,000 voters -- came from black Christian conservatives, he added.
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"It is vain to look to Christ or any of his Apostles to justify (abolition). On the contrary ... they exhort 'all servants under the yoke' to 'count their masters as worthy of all honor.' ... St. Paul actually apprehended a runaway slave and sent him to his master!" -- The Pro-Slavery Argument, Hammond's Letters on Slavery, (Former S.C. Gov.) J.H. Hammond, 1853
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When American Baptists split over the bondage of black men and women in the 1840s, the Southern brethren, who backed slavery, formed the Southern Baptist Convention. Many of its members continued to resist equal rights for black Americans through the 1960s.

At their Atlanta meeting in 1995 -- belatedly recognizing the error of their ways -- the messengers of the Southern Baptist Convention issued a broad apology for the church's support of slavery. The founders of the Southern Baptist Convention were "good, godly, Bible-believing persons, but they were not infallible," the Rev. Charles T. Carter said at the time.

Some 50 to 100 years from now, no doubt, some Christian churches will find themselves apologizing for their contemptuous treatment of gays and lesbians, many of whom are fellow Christians. For now, however, the conservative Christian church -- black and white -- has forsaken two of Christ's most profound injunctions: "Love thy neighbor as thyself" (Matthew, 22:39) and "Judge not, that ye be not judged" (Matthew, 7:1).

Posted by: Cerise Nov 8 2004, 07:11 PM

Interesting...

methinks the hispanic vote was very much influenced by Bush's "family values" (re. hating homosexuals) this election.

Posted by: Kay Nov 8 2004, 08:59 PM

what hypocrisy...

Those same black christians rally against racism and terms such as 'negro' and 'nigger' but are so damn eager to oppress homosexuals and fling around every insulting name under the sun.

let's face it, no matter what skin colour you are, humans are hypocritical beasts.

Posted by: Fweethawt Nov 8 2004, 09:10 PM

QUOTE

I HAVE A DREAM THAT ONE DAY, WHITE MEN AND BLACK MEN WILL WALK TOGETHER, SIDE BY SIDE, IN A JOINT EFFORT TO FOCUS THEIR OWN HATRED OF ONE ANOTHER ONTO A GROUP OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THEIR DIFFERENCES!

Martin Luther Fwee -
November 8, 2004

Posted by: luck mermaid Nov 8 2004, 09:36 PM

As a black person this really angering and depressing. Sometimes I just want to slap the shit out of black people and maybe slap some sense into them. I know where this comes from - white evil , what else?!

No seriously though, I feel that when blacks were forced to be christian and whites were lording that over them, now whites can enjoy benefits from being more holistic and open and free and revelling in decimated cultures and now blacks are still all uptight. It bothers me and I wish more black people could pull their heads out of their own asses. Just goes to prove, there are dumb cunts everywhere.

Posted by: NIGHTFLIGHT Nov 8 2004, 11:50 PM

QUOTE

No seriously though, I feel that when blacks were forced to be christian and whites were lording that over them,

Yeah, if blacks were allowed to stay in Africa they would've become Muslims and.................

doh.

Posted by: Pseudonym Nov 9 2004, 02:54 AM

Pretty sickening. I wonder if those who adhere to such draconian social values can point out what direct effect the marriage of gay or lesbian couples has on their day to day living. My guess would be none at all.

Posted by: Kay Nov 9 2004, 03:16 AM

Hang on....

If some black people are using the bible as a justification for bashing gays....

Does that mean that they can't complain if they're made slaves again, because the Bible condones slavery and they follow the word of the bible.....

QUOTE

can point out what direct effect the marriage of gay or lesbian couples has on their day to day living.

It is confrontational to their little, inhibited, conformist view of the world and makes them uncomfortable.

Posted by: Pseudonym Nov 9 2004, 03:22 AM

Time to be less civil then; they should pull those conservative ram-rods out of their arse-holes and wake up to the fact that regardless of what ideal template for humanity their tiny little imaginations have been fed, it will almost certainly be much more various and confusing than they can begin to contemplate.

Bi-Guy wanting humanity to get that little bit smarter.

Posted by: Reach Nov 9 2004, 06:24 AM

QUOTE (luck mermaid @ Nov 8 2004, 09:36 PM)

No seriously though, I feel that when blacks were forced to be christian and whites were lording that over them...

How many blacks were forced to be Christian? Christianity offered the slave hope, for eventual justice and an afterlife where every black man and woman and child would realize equality in the sight of God. It offered a painless heaven, freedom from slaveholders and foremen who doled out beatings and other forms of degrading punishment. Christianity offered good news and comfort; it was not so much forced upon blacks as much as they gladly embraced the faith with hope. As time went on, the church became the center of social life and it helped to strengthen the family unit, up until about the mid-point of the last century.

Cynthia Tucker knows this. She is a well-respected columnist, with a background in Black American studies, who focuses on the plight of the black person in American society today. Erik, thanks for posting her letter. She is known for her honesty and forthrightness and her willingness to say "the hard things."

Reach

Posted by: Asimov Nov 9 2004, 09:33 AM

Hoooooly crap!!! That makes me soooooooooooooooooo mad!!!!!

Gaaaaaaaaaaaah!!!

Posted by: luck mermaid Nov 9 2004, 10:10 AM

QUOTE (NIGHTFLIGHT)

Yeah, if blacks were allowed to stay in Africa they would've become Muslims and.................

Yeah that would have sucked too.

reach, I have to disagree with you. Blacks were forced not to practice our own religions, THAT would have given us hope for freedom. If you note Haiti where black religion was practice ws the only place to have a successful revolt.

QUOTE (Reach)

it was not so much forced upon blacks as much as they gladly embraced the faith with hope.

Yes, yes I'm sure they did. That makes alot of sense.
While I haven't read as much as you on Christianity's positive effects on slaves I will have to respectfully disagree.

Posted by: quicksand Nov 9 2004, 10:15 AM

QUOTE (NIGHTFLIGHT @ Nov 8 2004, 11:50 PM)

QUOTE

No seriously though, I feel that when blacks were forced to be christian and whites were lording that over them,

Yeah, if blacks were allowed to stay in Africa they would've become Muslims and.................

doh.

Location has nothing to do with it. Islam is on the rise here in US.

Welcome to the Jet Age and its progeny, the Info Age.

Posted by: fortunehooks Nov 10 2004, 01:21 PM

in kurt angle cadence,"it's true,oh it's true."

yeah, i know about this issue really well. i have observed it often in lousyana.
when it comes to hating another group,the whites and blacks become attached to hating homosexuals.

i know it has everything to do with assimilation and other societal factors,but this really disturbs me. i find it ridiculous that people could hold hands and unite to hate others. let along,the person whose hand your holding,you wouldn't have considered to hold if not for a common hateful goal.

Posted by: luck mermaid Nov 10 2004, 09:29 PM

You know it killed the Native Indians, and ithelped kill and enslave many Africans. Petty tribal wars refused to let people see beyond differences to the greater picture. Unfortunately in some people hate is a destructive force - in others, a unifying force, sigh.

I have been checking out a vodou thread at the haitixchange.com site... it's depressing. Some people saying we should stop hiding from our culture, some people saying we should embrace it 'culturally' and leave all the actual MEANING out of it and pray to Jesus , which would relegate it to an empty shell and near - useless status, and outright Crust STains and Muss Lambs who just want to forget all that 'diabolical' nonsense and get back to the good true religions of those who sold us into slavery (Arabs/muslims) and those who kept us good and tortured & enslaved (christians!).... sigh.

Posted by: Reach Nov 11 2004, 05:19 AM

QUOTE (luck mermaid @ Nov 9 2004, 09:10 AM)

QUOTE (Reach)

Christianity offered the slave hope, for eventual justice and an afterlife where every black man and woman and child would realize equality in the sight of God. It offered a painless heaven, freedom from slaveholders and foremen who doled out beatings and other forms of degrading punishment. Christianity offered good news and comfort; it was not so much forced upon blacks as much as they gladly embraced the faith with hope. As time went on, the church became the center of social life and it helped to strengthen the family unit, up until about the mid-point of the last century.

Yes, yes I'm sure they did. That makes alot of sense.
While I haven't read as much as you on Christianity's positive effects on slaves I will have to respectfully disagree.

Just to clear up any possible confusion, Luck Mermaid, I was saying, Christianity offered...

It is one thing to make an offer but it's an entirely different matter to close a deal and deliver the goods.

I was NOT saying that Christianity actually delivers what it promises. Most of what Christianity offered the slave had to do with an afterlife, since it failed to deal with the slavery issue in a manner that restored freedom and dignity to the black person. Although there are some notable exceptions, such as the Methodist circuit riders, much of American Christianity simply went into overdrive to accommodate slavery, attempt to whitewash its insidious evils and rearrange the currently held Biblical doctrines of that day to justify the ownership and mistreatment (abuse) of blacks.

Also, as an aside, I can't say much for "Christianity's positive effects on slaves," but I can say that I have learned some things from Cynthia Tucker. From where we are today, I'm not sure how well we are able to view this from the cultural and political perspective of the times and judge accordingly. It often takes centuries for people to wake up to the injustice in their own backyard, evils that they have tolerated or even perpetrated, in blindness, ignorance and/or hard-heartedness, etc...

Reach