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| Printable Version of Topic Click here to view this topic in its original format ExChristian.Net Open Forums > Debating with Christians > Christians Murdering? Posted by: SaviorForSale May 7 2004, 08:42 PM I just caught the last second of the news earlier where they said something about christians attacking and killing hundreds of muslims in Nigeria? anybody hear about this? I could be wrong. Posted by: Doug2 May 7 2004, 08:57 PM http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/africa/05/07/nigeria.attack.reut/index.html Thousands flee town after attack LAFIA, Nigeria (REUTERS) -- Thousands of Nigerian Muslims braved hostile Christian roadblocks Friday to flee the town of Yelwa after an attack by Christian militia killed hundreds earlier in the week. Many wounded and exhausted, the refugees sought police escorts to take them to neighboring Bauchi and Nassarawa states as Christians manning road blocks in surrounding villages tried to kill them as they left. "On our way to the hospital they blocked the road and we had to turn back and get armed escorts," said Ozero Yunusa, a blacksmith shot in the leg in Sunday's attack. "Even then they still attacked our vehicles and one of my brothers was shot in the process," he said from his hospital bed in Nassarawa state capital Lafia. Lafia hospital was overrun with scores of victims from Sunday's attack, with some badly wounded people sitting on floors due to lack of bed space. The Red Cross said 955 displaced families were camped at a primary school in the town. The conflict between the Christian Tarok tribe and the Muslim Fulani is rooted in their competing claims over the fertile farmlands of Plateau state in central Nigeria. It has been stoked by a growing religious hatred in Africa's most populous country, and the sense among the Christians that Muslims are outsiders in Plateau. Survivors of the Yelwa massacre said they had buried 630 corpses in several mass graves around the market town after Sunday's attack. It was not possible to confirm the figure, but a senior policeman spoke of "hundreds" dead. Presidential spokeswoman Remi Oyo said 630 dead was an exaggeration, saying police had recovered 67 corpses. Access to the town was still extremely limited Friday due to continued skirmishing nearby. The Yelwa attack was the latest in a three-month-long conflict between Muslim and Christian groups vying for control of Plateau state. Before Sunday, the fighting had already killed at least 350 people on both sides, according to witnesses, military and Red Cross sources. The government routinely does not confirm death tolls in religious fighting for fear of reprisal attacks. Wounded victims spoke of a military-style, two-day assault on the town by hundreds of Christian militia, armed with assault rifles and machetes. "Some were shooting, others were burning houses, while others were looting. They had satellite phones through which they were communicating," said Abdullahi Bala, a truck driver who was shot in the back. A Reuters eyewitness saw corpses in Yelwa Tuesday showing signs of mutilation and sexual abuse. "It was an organized killing," said Justice Abdulkadir Orire, secretary-general of Jama'atu Nasril Islam and leader of Nigeria's 60 million Muslims. Yelwa had already witnessed one of the worst atrocities of the Plateau conflict in February, when Muslim militia killed almost 100 Christians, including 48 massacred in a church. Nigeria is a battleground for the world's top two religions, with its population of 130 million roughly split between Muslims and Christians. Religious violence has killed at least 5,000 Nigerians since 2000, when 12 northern Nigerian states established Islamic Sharia law. Religion is bullshit. Posted by: PseudoGod May 7 2004, 10:05 PM QUOTE (Doug2 @ May 7 2004, 08:57 PM) Nigeria is a battleground for the world's top two religions, with its population of 130 million roughly split between Muslims and Christians. Hmm, you would think Allah could put in a call to Jehova and tell his followers to stand down. Or vice versa. Ooops I forgot, each loving god wants the followers of the other god dead. I know some people say Christians and Muslims are followers of the same god, but since Jesus and Muhammad both got different orders from god and they both claim them to be true, they must be two different gods. Then again, it could also could be one god with multiple personality disorder. It's too bad more people don't wake up and realize neither of these silly gods even exist. Posted by: Reach May 7 2004, 10:44 PM QUOTE (Doug2 @ May 7 2004, 11:57 PM) Quoting from Reuters news source: Religious violence has killed at least 5,000 Nigerians since 2000, when 12 northern Nigerian states established Islamic Sharia law. How typical of the news media! Bury the most important fact at the bottom of the article. Last sentence of the news article... finally... is the reason for the violence: ... since 2000, when 12 northern Nigerian states established Islamic Sharia law. Revolution has never been pretty. Posted by: Jay May 8 2004, 06:25 AM QUOTE (reach @ May 8 2004, 01:44 AM) QUOTE (Doug2 @ May 7 2004, 11:57 PM) Quoting from Reuters news source: Religious violence has killed at least 5,000 Nigerians since 2000, when 12 northern Nigerian states established Islamic Sharia law. How typical of the news media! Bury the most important fact at the bottom of the article. Last sentence of the news article... finally... is the reason for the violence: ... since 2000, when 12 northern Nigerian states established Islamic Sharia law. Revolution has never been pretty. Indeed. However, I would say, as a Christian, that overthrowing the government is not really a proper role.... Posted by: PriorWorrier May 8 2004, 08:25 AM QUOTE (reach @ May 7 2004, 10:44 PM) Last sentence of the news article... finally... is the reason for the violence: ... since 2000, when 12 northern Nigerian states established Islamic Sharia law. Revolution has never been pretty. Reach, Do you suppose that there would be less violence with the absence of Sharia law? Within a relatively small county "with its population of 130 million roughly split between Muslims and Christians." Where these two groups each claim to have exclusive access to the same god. Are Muslims more militant in the pursuit of their faith. I get the impression that the killing goes both ways. Posted by: Vixentrox May 8 2004, 08:42 AM ...oh but THOSE are not TRUE Christians...TRUE Christians would NEVER do THAT! Can you hear the excuses already? Posted by: mandylibra1979 May 8 2004, 11:16 AM For sure, Vixentrox! excuses, excuses . . . Posted by: Reach May 8 2004, 04:29 PM QUOTE (PriorWorrier @ May 8 2004, 11:25 AM) Reach, Do you suppose that there would be less violence with the absence of Sharia law? Within a relatively small county "with its population of 130 million roughly split between Muslims and Christians." Where these two groups each claim to have exclusive access to the same god. Are Muslims more militant in the pursuit of their faith. I get the impression that the killing goes both ways. PW, I can't really answer your first question and I suppose you mean it to be rhetorical. In the absence of Sharia law, for the most part, there has been less violence because Sharia law itself is another brand of fundamentalism shoved down the throats of the citizens. But in the absence of that law, what would we be making our comparison to? Surely, anarchy would not be an improvement. Muslims of the last decade may appear, for the moment, to be more militant, but history shows us that Christianity can rise to great heighths of militancy under various leaders. "Are Muslims more militant in the pursuit of their faith?" Who knows? Like you, I see the killing being done by both sides. I would venture that there are many peaceable Muslims and Christians who might never take up arms against the other, but I doubt that they will get much exposure in the media which prefers dealing in terror and fear and promoting the same. Sadly, this latter peaceable group does provide an endless supply of victims. -Reach Posted by: Lokmer May 8 2004, 04:51 PM Even more tragic, if history is any guide the peaceful faithful are just as likely to be murdered by their siblings in faith as by the other side. :-( -Lokmer Posted by: Reach May 8 2004, 05:20 PM QUOTE (Lokmer @ May 8 2004, 07:51 PM) Even more tragic, if history is any guide the peaceful faithful are just as likely to be murdered by their siblings in faith as by the other side. :-( -Lokmer I agree, Lokmer. Fundamentalism, in any of its varieties, seems to be a breeding ground for animosity and intolerance which too often leads to hatred and culminates in rape, torture and murder. "...murdered by their siblings in faith..." Would we call that "friendly fire?" -Reach Posted by: yoshiah_ap May 8 2004, 11:40 PM QUOTE (SaviorForSale @ May 7 2004, 08:42 PM) I just caught the last second of the news earlier where they said something about christians attacking and killing hundreds of muslims in Nigeria? anybody hear about this? I could be wrong. It might be a counter-attack for things that Muslims have done to them. Or maybe just trying to escape from Muslim rule. Who knows? All I suggest is that there is more to this story Posted by: Tocis May 9 2004, 02:41 AM QUOTE (yoshiah_ap @ May 8 2004, 11:40 PM) It might be a counter-attack for things that Muslims have done to them. Or maybe just trying to escape from Muslim rule. Who knows? All I suggest is that there is more to this story Definitely. As is usual with the news media today, they will have picked the cherry (that which sounds most dramatic... if it bleeds it leads) and kept silent about whatever chain of events may have led to this. Makes one wish that, provided they exist, one could throw god and allah into a boxing or wrestling ring and tell them "No more killing of believers. The two of you, here, now. Go for it!". Posted by: Vixentrox May 18 2004, 04:25 AM It's called murder dumb-ass. They are not killing in the name of athesism unlike Xtians or muslims who are killing for their faith. Posted by: R.C. May 18 2004, 07:22 AM QUOTE (Guest @ May 18 2004, 07:01 AM) They are too killing in the name of atheism...the atheist chinese commies are enforcing ATHEISM, AS ATHEISM on the Tibetans as a specific method of destroying their cultural identity...Amnesty International Home Page. Of course you will deny it, in the face of all evidence, because to admit it destroys the whole premise of your rants. But most people see through your propaganda. You know goldy, you may have a point. I'll check out that web site. I personally don't deny that people kill "in the name of " atheism; that could be true. Even if it is, I think that there is a larger force at work behind these atrocities, since there also have been religious genocides as well; that larger force being the forcing of one belief system onto others; they are equally as evil, whether in the name of atheism or in the name of a deity. Posted by: Light_of_Reason May 18 2004, 09:37 AM Great point R.C. Forcing one's set of beliefs onto another is probably the single largest cause of hatred and killing in the world at any given time. It makes me sick that more people are incapable of seeing that. Posted by: takethat May 18 2004, 11:04 AM Maybe forcing someone...is human nature and uh...not God's nature Posted by: Tocis May 18 2004, 11:17 AM QUOTE (Light_of_Reason @ May 18 2004, 09:37 AM) Forcing one's set of beliefs onto another is probably the single largest cause of hatred and killing in the world at any given time. It makes me sick that more people are incapable of seeing that. Aaah, are they incapable or just unwilling? Looks like the latter to me... (Anyway, welcome to our unusual little site ) Posted by: Tocis May 18 2004, 11:18 AM QUOTE (takethat @ May 18 2004, 11:04 AM) Maybe forcing someone...is human nature and uh...not God's nature Would be nice if the bible would support your point of view instead of listing a number of examples for god forcing people to do this and that, no? Posted by: chefranden May 18 2004, 01:53 PM QUOTE (takethat @ May 18 2004, 01:04 PM) Maybe forcing someone...is human nature and uh...not God's nature Posted by: I Broke Free May 18 2004, 03:09 PM QUOTE (All Your Names are Fakes @ May 18 2004, 05:43 PM) The Chinese are forcing Atheism on the Tibetan people as we speak, as a means of destroying their cultural indentity. (Amnesty International Site.) Forcing Christianity on them would result in the same cultural destruction. Would we be hearing your rants then? Posted by: TruthWarrior May 18 2004, 04:38 PM QUOTE (All Your Names are Fakes @ May 18 2004, 05:43 PM) The Chinese are forcing Atheism on the Tibetan people as we speak, as a means of destroying their cultural indentity. (Amnesty International Site.) Yes forcing is bad. And so is killing. Generally speaking. So then by your post one would infer Buddhism is the true religion! Yay! Posted by: =Veritas= May 19 2004, 08:23 AM Is there a difference between "killing" and "murder"? Just wondering... =Veritas= Posted by: Skankboy May 19 2004, 08:56 AM QUOTE The conflict between the Christian Tarok tribe and the Muslim Fulani is rooted in their competing claims over the fertile farmlands of Plateau state in central Nigeria. I think the point being missed here is that this is a land war. As usual, religion is a convenient way to justify atrocities (on both sides, I'm sure). As for Tibet... Ok, China is "officially" atheist. Granted. Every heard of a cult of personality? That's when a person is substituted for "god" in a culture. Stalin, Lenin, Mao all of these people established cults of personality surrounding themselves to help ensure social order. They outlawed religion not because they honestly don't believe one way or the other (that irrelevant), but because these religions undermined the ABSOLUTE authority of the leader. What China is doing to Tibet is fucked-up, plain and simple. To try to use it as a rally cry for Christianity or any other religion save Tibetian Buddhism, is just as sick and wrong. (PS - I think it's murder when the authorities [god, church, govt] haven't authorized it. I don't personally draw such lines. Dead is dead in my opnion.) Posted by: Reach May 19 2004, 10:31 AM QUOTE (mandylibra1979 @ May 19 2004, 01:18 PM) I am so sick of dealing with this person. The IP's 4.180.*.* and 4.181.*.* will be blocked from this site. I am personally going to contact this person's Internet provider - Genuity and report them for violating their Terms of Service. Thank you Mandy. My favorite database for IP addresses, American Registry for Internet Numbers: http://www.arin.net/tools/whois_help.html Someone said that fish and company stink after three days. Is it just me or does it seem like this character is serving up the same message all the time? It sort of reminds me of eating the same leftovers week after week, month after month. It was old after three days and this guest is in violation of the TOS. Posted by: Tocis May 19 2004, 10:45 AM QUOTE (reach @ May 19 2004, 10:31 AM) Someone said that fish and company stink after three days. Is it just me or does it seem like this character is serving up the same message all the time? Dear friend, let me just state: If you are in error then at least the two of us are suffering from the same hallucination. Posted by: Reach May 19 2004, 10:57 AM QUOTE (Tocis @ May 19 2004, 01:45 PM) QUOTE (reach @ May 19 2004, 10:31 AM) Someone said that fish and company stink after three days. Is it just me or does it seem like this character is serving up the same message all the time? Dear friend, let me just state: If you are in error then at least the two of us are suffering from the same hallucination. Well if that's the case, my friend, it's nice to know that I am in the presence of good company. The best of friendships generally improve with age. Posted by: Ro-bear May 19 2004, 04:32 PM What's all the ruckus? Of course Christians murder. So do Muslims, Jews, Atheists, Sikhs...get the picture? I don't think I'd take kindly to the establishment of Islamic law, but I hope I wouldn't resort to murder. I think that these events are more an indictment of fanaticism than Christianity. Of course Christianity provides an opportunity for fanatical group action, as do all the major religions. As an atheist, I rarely have occasion to defend Christianity, but in the interests of intellectual honesty I must acknowledge that the vast majority of Christians abhor murder. Powered by Invision Power Board (http://www.invisionboard.com) © Invision Power Services (http://www.invisionpower.com) |