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| Printable Version of Topic Click here to view this topic in its original format ExChristian.Net Open Forums > Backlash and Reactions > Being Outed Vs. Coming Out Posted by: HeathenM0M Mar 7 2004, 03:19 PM Eric's current dilemma has really made me think more about whether I should come out to my family and friends. My place to live doesn't depend on my silence, like Eric, but I've kept quiet because I didn't want to hurt anyone. I keep wondering if it'll be worse if I put it off and then someone finds out on their own. Will they consider my silence to be dishonesty? So, for those of us just trying to keep the peace ... will the situation be worse if we're found out instead of coming out on our own? Are those of us in the closet being dishonest? Or is it really none of anyone's business what we believe? Any thoughts? Posted by: bob Mar 7 2004, 03:28 PM Mom, the only one I have to worry about, even remotely, is my mom. My dad knows, my brother knows, but they are non believers also. But I guess for those raised in a strict religious family, it could be devastating. Posted by: HeathenM0M Mar 7 2004, 03:34 PM QUOTE (bob @ Mar 7 2004, 06:28 PM) Mom, the only one I have to worry about, even remotely, is my mom. My dad knows, my brother knows, but they are non believers also. Bob, In that case I'm sure it would be difficult to tell your mom. QUOTE But I guess for those raised in a strict religious family, it could be devastating. Yeah, I think that does make a difference. My parents weren't especially religious, they just made sure that us kids went to church. My mom knows and is okay with it as long as I don't refer to myself as an Atheist. My dad knows and thinks I'm good buddies with Satan now (but my dad's an idiot). It's mostly my in-laws that I have to worry about. They are now and always have been Southern Baptist fundies. Posted by: ericf Mar 8 2004, 04:10 AM Hmm, I wish I could answer this. I mentioned somewhere my attempt to come out religiously over two years ago. I didn't get very far and spent three weeks in reconversion hell. This time I don't know what is going on but I heard my mom reference my attempt to talk about it myself as a sign that she should have known. I still don't know how this is going to turn out for me. I have some extreme fundies in my immediate family -- my cousin called his sister the whore of babylon because she started to sleep with her husband a week before the marriage became final. He wouldn't even stay at her house when he was in town because she was living in sin -- she had to deal with this attitude the week of her wedding. I could go on... but I really don't know what to say. It feels good I guess to at least have the freedom to be honest now. At the same time it feels horrible because I don't know what is happening. I wish I could explain that better, Posted by: Fweethawt Mar 8 2004, 04:29 AM QUOTE (ericf @ Mar 8 2004, 07:10 AM) At the same time it feels horrible because I don't know what is happening. I wish I could explain that better, There is no better way to explain it just yet Eric. It's just ripples. Posted by: TexasFreethinker Mar 8 2004, 04:34 AM QUOTE (ericf @ Mar 8 2004, 07:10 AM) It feels good I guess to at least have the freedom to be honest now. To me, the honesty is the key point. I spent several years hiding my deconversion from my extremely devout Southern Baptist family. My mother, in particular, bases her entire life on prayer, bible study, church participation, etc. I initially planned to tell my family nothing about my deconversion since I didn't want to offend them or hurt my mother. In the end, I found that the silence didn't work and I was harming them more by being dishonest with them. Our relationships became strained and they weren't sure what was going on. It's not been perfect since I told them, and in fact, most of my family members don't even want to talk to me about my deconversion. At least our relationships are no longer being driven by a lie. And, the healing/understanding process has begun. Please don't take this as blanket advice to everyone facing this situation - I don't claim to know what's right in every situation. I do urge people facing this to consider the long-term impact of (even well-intended) dishonesty on their close relations. Posted by: Tocis Mar 8 2004, 04:41 AM QUOTE (HeathenM0M @ Mar 7 2004, 03:19 PM) So, for those of us just trying to keep the peace ... will the situation be worse if we're found out instead of coming out on our own? Are those of us in the closet being dishonest? Or is it really none of anyone's business what we believe? Just a sidenote... when you decide to come out on your own, you can choose when, where, and how. This could make it all much much easier. Dishonest? Basically not, because faith is always a personal issue (unless someone can prove some faith to be the One True Faith). Unfortunately this fact does not stop your friends and relatives from wondering anyway... Posted by: ericf Mar 8 2004, 04:44 AM tocis, you have a very good point. I had to deal with it after working a 19 hour shift at work... when I had gotten four hours of sleep before that. It could not have come at a worse time. I was in no shape mentally to deal with that. Posted by: HeathenM0M Mar 8 2004, 04:17 PM QUOTE (ericf @ Mar 8 2004, 07:10 AM) It feels good I guess to at least have the freedom to be honest now. At the same time it feels horrible because I don't know what is happening. I wish I could explain that better, Eric, I truly hope your Mom chills out and thing calm down for you. I need to head over to your thread and see if you've updated. Posted by: HeathenM0M Mar 8 2004, 04:20 PM QUOTE (TexasFreethinker @ Mar 8 2004, 07:34 AM) In the end, I found that the silence didn't work and I was harming them more by being dishonest with them. Our relationships became strained and they weren't sure what was going on. Texas, That's what I'm afraid of. QUOTE Please don't take this as blanket advice to everyone facing this situation - I don't claim to know what's right in every situation. I do urge people facing this to consider the long-term impact of (even well-intended) dishonesty on their close relations. You've given excellent advice, thank you so much. The dishonesty is what's been bothering me the most ... I really need to do something about this. Posted by: HeathenM0M Mar 8 2004, 04:23 PM QUOTE (Tocis @ Mar 8 2004, 07:41 AM) Just a sidenote... when you decide to come out on your own, you can choose when, where, and how. This could make it all much much easier. Tocis, That is an excellent point. I think it'd be so much easier to begin this conversation on my own terms. QUOTE Dishonest? Basically not, because faith is always a personal issue (unless someone can prove some faith to be the One True Faith). Unfortunately this fact does not stop your friends and relatives from wondering anyway... It sure feels like dishonesty (to me), but you're right that faith is a personal issue. Thanks for weighing in here. I really appreciate all of your perspectives. Posted by: jjacksonRIAB Mar 8 2004, 04:26 PM You can't live being other than who you are, and you can't live being ostracised either. My immediate family had no problem accepting it because my father is the only Christian. My grandparents - well it annoyed them. Even though it hurts to be treated that way, I came to a point where I just said to hell with them. I could find all of the great qualities in people who ditched me in others who wouldn't... Maybe they'll grow up and stop being jerks about it, but I'm not holding my breath. There are too many great things in life to spend it being concerned with what other people think about you. I say tell them. It's less painful to have it out than it is to pretend to be someone you're not, unless you like acting around the clock, which can be fun, but then two groups of people you told separate things will collide and you'll suddenly be called a fake by both of them... Either that or just refuse to go there and ignore the whole thing. Posted by: SpaceFalcon2001 Mar 8 2004, 10:40 PM As I've said before: Don't come out unless you are prepared to deal with the consequences. More than likely they will act out in some way, you will have to find out whether that way will be good or bad (use an analogy of a friend coming out), but this is for your growth, not theirs. Tread carefully. Posted by: Tocis Mar 8 2004, 10:53 PM QUOTE (HeathenM0M @ Mar 8 2004, 04:23 PM) Thanks for weighing in here. I really appreciate all of your perspectives. Glad to have helped Posted by: brick Mar 9 2004, 09:56 AM Is it just me or does anyone else think how negative a statement about our society this is, that something as vital and basic as honesty could be a such a volatile catalyst among our closest? Man, that leaves a bitter taste in my mouth. Truth should never be punishable, IMO. Posted by: Tocis Mar 9 2004, 11:51 AM QUOTE (brick @ Mar 9 2004, 09:56 AM) Is it just me or does anyone else think how negative a statement about our society this is, that something as vital and basic as honesty could be a such a volatile catalyst among our closest? Man, that leaves a bitter taste in my mouth. Truth should never be punishable, IMO. I'd say it's exactly because it involves "our closest". To a perfect stranger, there's not much of a problem in telling an inconvenient truth - after all, too bad if you hurt that stranger, but how much of a pain can that be? If it's your next of kin who's involved things become much harder. The balance between truth and kindness is a delicate one. Unfortunately. And you can't just stick to the extremes either (not for too long that is)... holding back the truth will hurt you, coldly announcing the same truth will often hurt the other side. All just my 2 cents worth of course. Posted by: HeathenM0M Mar 9 2004, 12:40 PM QUOTE (jjacksonRIAB @ Mar 8 2004, 07:26 PM) I say tell them. It's less painful to have it out than it is to pretend to be someone you're not, unless you like acting around the clock, which can be fun, but then two groups of people you told separate things will collide and you'll suddenly be called a fake by both of them... jjackson, Thankfully, the people I'm concerned about aren't people I see daily. I had an opening to tell my mother-in-law today, but I hesitated and ended up letting her monopolize the conversation like she always does. Posted by: HeathenM0M Mar 9 2004, 12:43 PM QUOTE (SpaceFalcon2001 @ Mar 9 2004, 01:40 AM) As I've said before: Don't come out unless you are prepared to deal with the consequences. More than likely they will act out in some way, you will have to find out whether that way will be good or bad (use an analogy of a friend coming out), but this is for your growth, not theirs. Tread carefully. Very good advice, SpaceFalcon. Thank you. I can't imagine what the consequences would be, but at the very least, telling them won't affect my living situation. Posted by: Buddy4me17 Mar 9 2004, 03:20 PM Mom, Of course it is your call to make, but for me, I would think that if you have the love and trust of your spouse and immediate family then the extended family's approval or disapproval isn't as big a factor. What I am trying to say is: does your husband know? Will he be on your side if there is some sort of confrontation with his family? If the answers to those are yes, then there is less risk in telling your in-laws. If every time they start to bitch at him he tells them to stay out of his marriage, then you are golden, if he is going to commiserate and think that you are satan's bride them you have a problem and should stay in the closet. Buddy Posted by: kashicat Mar 9 2004, 04:31 PM Some of it, too, probably depends on how "extreme" people's fundie relatives are. I know a family who kidnapped their own daughter and locked her up for a year in a camp, till she "straightened her life out." Granted, she was a teenager, and not an adult. But still, if one's relatives are extreme enough to do that sort of thing, it would be good to have an escape plan. For some people, it's really that bad. Posted by: Buddy4me17 Mar 9 2004, 04:54 PM Locked her up in a camp for a year?? Are we living in the same country? I'm sure you are not lying, but that fact that these things happen blows my mind. I admit it, I'm not an ex-fundy, or an ex-christian (I'm an ex reform Jew, now an atheist, and reform Jews are pretty liberal already) I grew up in New York (state not the city) and am in California so while I thought that I have seen some raving mad fundies I don't think I have ever even heard of someone sending a child off to a chistian camp for reeducation. Was this in the US? Buddy Posted by: kashicat Mar 9 2004, 05:07 PM Yes, this was in California, in fact. I heard about it when I went down to visit them (I'm from Canada), and by then their daughter was back, and seemed to be doing well. (Though she later "backslid" again -- this sort of thing never works permanently.) But even during the few days I was there, I ended up reading in their living room while they plotted with a teenage guy's parents and some others on how they were going to do the same thing to that boy early on Saturday morning. They were going to burst into his room while he was sleeping, and pretty much drag him out to the van outside, and drive him to the camp. (It was a ranch, from what I recall; it was quite a while ago now.) (I'd love to think it didn't exist any more, but I have little hope of that.) The kids weren't allowed to see or write to their parents for the first couple of months. I think later "privileges" were contingent on their living up to their jailers' expectations. And meanwhile they'd be having school lessons and doing work around the ranch. I was so furious, listening to them plotting that evening, that if I'd known how to contact the ACLU I would have done so. I was still a Christian myself at the time, and had been trained to think of the ACLU as the enemy, so I was really lost about trying to get in touch. And of course, a few days later, I was back in Canada. Even when I was a fundie, I knew this was an outrage. I had already figured out that you don't make somebody believe something by ramming it down their throat. And if anyone had ever done that to ME, I'd have spent every day that year plotting against them. Posted by: Doug2 Mar 9 2004, 05:07 PM QUOTE (Buddy4me17 @ Mar 9 2004, 04:54 PM) Was this in the US? Most likely. I've heard of similar things. Posted by: kashicat Mar 9 2004, 05:09 PM I remembered the name of the ranch for years, but it's been long enough now that I've forgotten. I think the name had "Valley" in it, but that's no help, really. Posted by: Lokmer Mar 10 2004, 05:06 AM QUOTE (kashicat @ Mar 9 2004, 04:31 PM) Some of it, too, probably depends on how "extreme" people's fundie relatives are. I know a family who kidnapped their own daughter and locked her up for a year in a camp, till she "straightened her life out." Granted, she was a teenager, and not an adult. What was the name of the place? I'm in CA, and might have worked there at one point That would be a wild conincidence! -Lokmer Posted by: HeathenM0M Mar 10 2004, 06:31 AM QUOTE (Buddy4me17 @ Mar 9 2004, 06:20 PM) What I am trying to say is: does your husband know? Buddy, My husband does know that I'm an Atheist, and while he's actually attempting to be supportive now, he's hoping that this is some kind of phase. QUOTE Will he be on your side if there is some sort of confrontation with his family? This is so sad to admit, but I really don't know. I think so, but I can't be sure. Not about this. And because of the age of his parents, I really wouldn't want to be the cause of confrontations between them. I guess that answers my question for now. I don't think I'll be telling my in-laws at all, it just isn't worth it. QUOTE If the answers to those are yes, then there is less risk in telling your in-laws. If every time they start to bitch at him he tells them to stay out of his marriage, then you are golden, if he is going to commiserate and think that you are satan's bride them you have a problem and should stay in the closet. There's risk, I'm sure of that. I just feel so dishonest sometimes and I know that could come back to bite me in the ass later on. There are a couple of people I may need to tell just so they'll get off my back, but other than that, I'm just not going to worry about it anymore. I think that because I was so ridiculously open with my beliefs before, I feel like I have to be the same way with my non-beliefs. I'll learn. Satan's bride I can actually imagine them all saying something like that! Posted by: HeathenM0M Mar 10 2004, 06:33 AM QUOTE (kashicat @ Mar 9 2004, 07:31 PM) Some of it, too, probably depends on how "extreme" people's fundie relatives are. I know a family who kidnapped their own daughter and locked her up for a year in a camp, till she "straightened her life out." Granted, she was a teenager, and not an adult. Wow, that is messed up! Posted by: kashicat Mar 10 2004, 03:33 PM QUOTE (Lokmer @ Mar 10 2004, 11:06 AM) QUOTE (kashicat @ Mar 9 2004, 04:31 PM) Some of it, too, probably depends on how "extreme" people's fundie relatives are. I know a family who kidnapped their own daughter and locked her up for a year in a camp, till she "straightened her life out." Granted, she was a teenager, and not an adult. What was the name of the place? I'm in CA, and might have worked there at one point That would be a wild conincidence! Oh, that would be bizarre! I've been trying to remember the name of the place, but no luck so far. It may come back to me at 3:00 a.m. some night, the way things do. "[Something] Valley Ranch," or something like that. 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