You know what would be great.? If Bush would follow through with his "if your not with us you're against us" B.S. We need to tell every damn country that has Al-Qaida to stand the hell up and get rid of them. And if they dont...we will do it for them. I am sick of this shit.
But we cant do that. Why? Because the war protesters would be shitting bricks back here in the U.S. bitching about rights. So lets just keep them happy and allow these people to crash planes into more of our buildings. Since we are such a terrible country anyway, right?
People say that we cant call this a religious war because its not ALL muslims that are doing these things. Well, why the hell arent the GOOD muslims standing up to al-qaida and telling them to knock it the fuck off?! When Psycho Christians do stupid shit like bombings, the other christians are outraged by it!
I guess my real question is:
How do we get rid of Al-Qaida WITHOUT war? They are cockroaches throughout the entire world and some countries will just not stand up to them and allow them to dwell on their land. Some give them money and aid. sooooooooo....how?
Is John Kerry's plan to put them on trial? Put them in prison? fill me in, people...I really dont know.
Posted by: Joshua Jun 18 2004, 06:07 PM
I support taking a draconian stance when dealing with terrorists since it seems like they act with no conscience.
Posted by: Dude Jun 18 2004, 07:19 PM
How do we get rid of Al-Qaida WITHOUT war?
You choke the economy of countries who harbor and fund them.... You break off all trade and diplomatic relations (except to speak about dealing with terrorists) and sit back. If you could convince the EU and Asian economic powers to do the same...
But I have to say that the "Your with us, or against us" policy of the current administration is a problem, especially when they don't apply it to Saudi, Syria, Jordan, and Pakistan.
Posted by: Shadfox Jun 18 2004, 07:47 PM
Because the war protesters would be shitting bricks back here in the U.S. bitching about rights.
Are we talking about the ones that object to ANY war or the ones that object to unjustified war, like Iraq? I think you're painting again with too big of a brush.
The first step to eliminating terrorists is to stop making them. The CIA trained and empowered the Islamic militants. The US helped put Saddam in chage and arm him. That's only a small list of dirty dealings done to further economic interests in 3rd world countries. Why is it that America is only concerned with freedom and democracy when it makes a great excuse for war?
Posted by: CodeWarren Jun 19 2004, 12:33 AM
| QUOTE (Shadfox @ Jun 18 2004 @ 07:47 PM) | ||
Are we talking about the ones that object to ANY war or the ones that object to unjustified war, like Iraq? I think you're painting again with too big of a brush. The first step to eliminating terrorists is to stop making them. The CIA trained and empowered the Islamic militants. The US helped put Saddam in chage and arm him. That's only a small list of dirty dealings done to further economic interests in 3rd world countries. Why is it that America is only concerned with freedom and democracy when it makes a great excuse for war? |
*cheers*
That's exactly right: we can thank Ronald Reagan and the bourgening rise of neo-conservatism for making bin Laden and al-Qaeda a problem.
Why does this remind me SO much of Ho Chi Minh? Exact same scenario: set up a freedom fighter, turn our back on him when he intrudes on "Am'rr'ca's interests", and then make him a demon.
Only this time America fucked around with the wrong religion. Ho Chi Minh was a Communist and therefore an atheist .
It's almost cliche': one man's freedom fighter is another's terrorist. But that's the truth and of course with any of the big two (Republicans and, sadly, Democrats) in office, this will not change.
But I'd take Kerry over Bush any day. Someone who understands how the Congress works. You know, the whole "2/3 vote in Congress to declare war" deal...
Fuck I hate George Dubya Bush.
Yes, we must fight against terrorism. But at the same time, good foreign policy would take us out of those situations, thus preventing more bloodshed.
Posted by: fortunehooks Jun 19 2004, 04:19 AM
codewarren,hit all the nails on the head with this one.
i do want the beheadings to stop,but i understand why it will happen. the freedomfighters or terrorists as some call them,are a desperate group. all of these acts are acts of desperation,and to fuck with the u.s.a government.
Posted by: SaviorForSale Jun 19 2004, 02:45 PM
| QUOTE (Dude @ Jun 18 2004 @ 07:19 PM) |
But I have to say that the "Your with us, or against us" policy of the current administration is a problem, especially when they don't apply it to Saudi, Syria, Jordan, and Pakistan. |
I agree...this is definately one policy that you cant pick and choose to whom it applies.
Posted by: Redshift Jun 20 2004, 11:38 PM
| QUOTE (Shadfox @ Jun 19 2004 @ 05:47 AM) | ||
Are we talking about the ones that object to ANY war or the ones that object to unjustified war, like Iraq? I think you're painting again with too big of a brush. The first step to eliminating terrorists is to stop making them. The CIA trained and empowered the Islamic militants. The US helped put Saddam in chage and arm him. That's only a small list of dirty dealings done to further economic interests in 3rd world countries. Why is it that America is only concerned with freedom and democracy when it makes a great excuse for war? |
Posted by: TruthWarrior Jun 21 2004, 11:00 AM
| QUOTE (SaviorForSale @ Jun 18 2004 @ 09:07 PM) |
You know what would be great.? If Bush would follow through with his "if your not with us you're against us" B.S. We need to tell every damn country that has Al-Qaida to stand the hell up and get rid of them. And if they dont...we will do it for them. I am sick of this shit. But we cant do that. Why? Because the war protesters would be shitting bricks back here in the U.S. bitching about rights. So lets just keep them happy and allow these people to crash planes into more of our buildings. Since we are such a terrible country anyway, right? People say that we cant call this a religious war because its not ALL muslims that are doing these things. Well, why the hell arent the GOOD muslims standing up to al-qaida and telling them to knock it the fuck off?! When Psycho Christians do stupid shit like bombings, the other christians are outraged by it! I guess my real question is: How do we get rid of Al-Qaida WITHOUT war? They are cockroaches throughout the entire world and some countries will just not stand up to them and allow them to dwell on their land. Some give them money and aid. sooooooooo....how? Is John Kerry's plan to put them on trial? Put them in prison? fill me in, people...I really dont know. |
It's all the inevitable result of the eye for an eye belief.
"These stupid evil bees keep on stinging me! I think I'll knock down some more of their hives!"
Posted by: Lokmer Jun 24 2004, 01:09 PM
| QUOTE (Shadfox @ Jun 18 2004 @ 08:47 PM) |
Are we talking about the ones that object to ANY war or the ones that object to unjustified war, like Iraq?..... The US helped put Saddam in chage and arm him. That's only a small list of dirty dealings done to further economic interests in 3rd world countries. |
This is exactly why we **should** be in Iraq - we made the mess by sponsoring a despot who brought ruin to his once-propserous and democratic country.
Unfortunately, our current administration chose to create a pretense of anti-proliferation instead of going in on genuine grounds, and they were many: 1) Saddam had continuously violated the agreement that stopped us from taking Baghdad, 2) He financially supported the bombings of our allies in Israel, 3) we had a moral obligation to correct the problem we created. But those weren't enough to risk the political capital of going in there, even though everyone (even in the Clinton administration) agreed that it would need to be done eventually.
No, instead of doing it the right way (with a carefully managed int'l coalition rather than a haphazard one, with a Marshall plan for occupation and rebuilding, actually ::gasp:: declaring war rather than going in illegally under an executive order) our current administration decided that that would be too much work. Besides, the constraints of an illegal war would have hamstrung the war profiteering and illegal torture that is going on now. So, instead they fabricated intelligence, used old data pieced together with supposition, wishful thinking, alarmism and demagoguery, and sold the electorate and the UN a fallacious bill of goods that has cost us the good will of the world in a way unprecedented in our history.
-Lokmer
Posted by: Vixentrox Jun 24 2004, 08:28 PM
I think some of that "illegal torture" isn't any worse than a hazing one might get joining a fraterity. Some of it over the top yes and is a ligetament concern, but I think much of the morale outrage is uncalled for.
I understand one of the tortures was making them stand for 4 hours...big whoop...some people stand for 8 at their job. I've darn sure stood for more than 4 while in the military. The wearing of panties? LOL....I KNOW that shit has gone on at colleges...I don't give a crap if it offends their muslim sensibilities. No lasting harm is done unlike what other contries have done to OUR soldiers.
Again, some of it was a cause for concern, but a lot of it is just bullshit IMO.
Posted by: TruthWarrior Jun 25 2004, 07:52 PM
| QUOTE (Vixentrox @ Jun 25 2004 @ 12:28 AM) |
I think some of that "illegal torture" isn't any worse than a hazing one might get joining a fraterity. Some of it over the top yes and is a ligetament concern, but I think much of the morale outrage is uncalled for. I understand one of the tortures was making them stand for 4 hours...big whoop...some people stand for 8 at their job. I've darn sure stood for more than 4 while in the military. The wearing of panties? LOL....I KNOW that shit has gone on at colleges...I don't give a crap if it offends their muslim sensibilities. No lasting harm is done unlike what other contries have done to OUR soldiers. Again, some of it was a cause for concern, but a lot of it is just bullshit IMO. |
I think there was a little bit more then that.
But I would agree that outwardly it looks silly as all hell. In our stronger minds we'd be able laugh as such things. Fucks with their minds though. Imagine making Jerry Falwel watch the Teletubbies for four hours. Haha.. the poor bastard! Then again that would be torture for anybody. It doesn't take much to freak a fundy out. Tortures are tailored to the victim. For you, it would have to be a much worse.
I suppose it's better then ripping their fingernails off or skinning them alive or the rack or crucifixtion or whatever physical torture. I've read that torture really doesn't work though, people will say anything, especially when you torture innocents.
There was some tortures that were really bad there (rape and beating people to death). I wonder what the hell is the benefit of making people go through such things. Intel? Bullshit. The twisted fucks were gleefully having fun with detainies. And now it will all backfire. Literally.
Posted by: jjacksonRIAB Jun 26 2004, 03:41 PM
Unfortunately, war is exactly what militant fundamentalists want - then they get to play out all of their religious fantasies and better yet: polarize the whole region against the "infidel".
The only kind of war that would be helpful in such a situation is an internal war that puts those who employ the methods of war, but only as a last resort, on top - the kind of war that won us our independence.
I think the one thing that empowers them should be taken away: our dependence on foreign oil. All of the trillions spend on the mideast over the years could have been better invested in opportunities and resources at home.
A good start would be to elimate taxes and license requirements on alcohol production. The prices of alcohol fuel will be so much more inexpensive than oil-based products that the market will switch over to them rapidly, after which the tax on gasoline could be eliminated.
Most people aren't aware of how much of an effect such licenses and taxes have on our production capabilities. As it is now, gasoline is artifically inflated in price, but not so much as alcohol fuels, giving businesses no incentive to switch to such fuels. This imbalance must be corrected before we'll ever be in a position to apply pressure on the mideast without damaging our own economy.
Economic independence is a key component in the war on terror (bleh, never thought I'd use that term in my own argument), for it presents us with a negotiation tool and places the power over our nation entirely within our own control - where it SHOULD BE.
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