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Posted by: Nihil Mar 5 2005, 09:22 AM

QUOTE

The national government will maintain and defend the foundations on which the power of our nation rests. It will offer strong protection to Christianity as the very basis of our collective morality. Today Christians stand at the head of our country. We want to fill our culture again with the Christian spirit. We want to burn out all the recent immoral developments in literature, in the theatre, and in the press--in short, we want to burn out the poison of immorality which has entered into our whole life and culture as a result of LIBERAL excess during the past years.

--Adolph Hitler; taken from "The Speeches of Adolph Hitler, 1922-1939," Vol. 1, Michael Hakeem, Ph.D. (London, Oxford University Press, 1942), pp. 871-872.

Posted by: Rhodacat Mar 5 2005, 10:17 AM

Nihil,

I have long thought over the role religion played in the Nazi government. Today the Catholic church tries its best to errase the fact that it alligned itself with Hitler and proudly displays the few members who oppssed him. Are you familiar with Detrich Bohnhoffer. This Lutheran minister oppossed Hitler by showing the pascifism of Christ and his teachings. Yet latter ole Detrich tried to murder Hitler himself. Remember to attempted assasination?

Posted by: Nihil Mar 5 2005, 10:29 AM

QUOTE (Rhodacat @ Mar 5 2005, 10:17 AM)

No, I don't remember it: I wasn't born yet.

Seriously, though.... Of course the church is trying to revise its history. That's what many powerful groups do to improve their image and suck in the chumps. Its a no-brainer. Any christian demonination (Read that closely) that has committed atrocities in the past (ie, most of them) have either tried to cover it up, or offer some meaningless show of apology. (Like its going to matter now)

Anyway, I do see a bit of similarity to the rhetoric of the above quote, and that of a certain house, which just happens to be white, currently occupied by a certain fundy....

Posted by: saviorforsale Mar 5 2005, 10:58 AM

I dont think that anybody in that house that is white is forcing you to believe anything. Nor are they telling you how to live your life. I have seen people on this site freak out at the slightest mention of christianity from anybody in the white house( I believe one person said they even kicked their tv in when Bush said "God bless America" or something like that). To me that is childish.
I hate Christianity. But I have yet to hear of anybody trying to force it on you by use of Govt. In fact, I heard Bush say that he thinks that an atheist is just a patriotic as someone who believes in God. I think a lot of Liberals want to make it seem otherwise for the drama. I also think that Conservatives would like it to be that way, but we have seperation of church and state in this country and it will ALWAYS be that way. I have yet to see anything even remotely threatening that. As long as there are people like you and me in the country, then it cant happen. I know that most of the people on this site would fight it to the death if it came down to it. The only problem is that so would the Christians.

And enough with the America/Nazi Germany comparisons. How dare you compare such miniscule American problems to inhuman mass murder and the suffering that the Jews went through. Do you honestly think that anything even close to that would ever happen here? Sorry, I just think its a stupid comparison.

Posted by: Cerise Mar 5 2005, 12:01 PM

QUOTE (saviorforsale @ Mar 5 2005, 10:58 AM)

In fact, I heard Bush say that he thinks that an atheist is just a patriotic as someone who believes in God.

You mean Bush Jr. not Bush Senior, right?

Posted by: MrSpooky Mar 5 2005, 12:03 PM

Bush Junior started National Jesus Day when he was governor of Texas.

Forgive my naive judgement, but that sounds rather like imposing one's personal religion on an American population to me.

EDIT:

user posted image

Posted by: Tocis Mar 6 2005, 11:42 PM

QUOTE (saviorforsale @ Mar 5 2005, 07:58 PM)

If it never happens in the US, so much the better. But compare the shrub's exploitation of 911 with Hitler's exploitation of the burning Reichstag for starters. That's just one of many parallels.
As for "Do you honestly think that anything even close to that would ever happen here?":
The sheer absurdity (to you) of that thought could, in a perverse twist of fate, guarantee that it will happen. It could lead to people ignoring the telltale signs of what happens. Do you think that the German majority in the 30s considered the coming horrors possible?

Who was it again who said "Eternal vigilance is the price of freedom"? Ben Franklin?

Posted by: Pseudonym Mar 7 2005, 02:13 AM

The notion of anyone of fundamentalist Christian belief occupying any position of governmental influence is horrifying. Bear in mind that for the fundamentalist the bible is the word of the law; it is a universal ideology applicable to all human beings, regardless of cultural origin, spiritual inclination or personal prejudice. Furthermore, fundamentalists define themselves behaviourally and psychologically with direct reference to biblical ideology; it is impossible for them to function, particularly in the moral thematics that often preoccupy governmental legislation without bringing their religious prejudices to bear on the fact. That is why people like myself get scared and angry when we see evidence of the most influential military power in the world being administrated by right-wing religious lunatics.

Posted by: Reach Mar 7 2005, 03:55 AM

QUOTE (Rhodacat @ Mar 5 2005, 10:17 AM)

I have long thought over the role religion played in the Nazi government. Today the Catholic church tries its best to errase the fact that it alligned itself with Hitler and proudly displays the few members who oppssed him. Are you familiar with Detrich Bohnhoffer. This Lutheran minister oppossed Hitler by showing the pascifism of Christ and his teachings. Yet latter ole Detrich tried to murder Hitler himself. Remember to attempted assasination?

And what a shame that Dietrich Bonhoeffer failed in his attempt!

Of course, Hitler had him executed before a firing squad as a result.

Thanks for the quote, Nihil, and Bush's Jesus Day letter, MrSpooky, another object lesson in trivia and the shallowness of Christian thought.

Posted by: Lokmer Mar 7 2005, 10:56 AM

QUOTE (Tocis @ Mar 6 2005, 11:42 PM)

Who was it again who said "Eternal vigilance is the price of freedom"? Ben Franklin?

"Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty." -- Wendell Phillips, (1811-1884), abolitionist, orator and columnist for The Liberator, in a speech before the Massachusetts Antislavery Society in 1852, according to The Dictionary of Quotations edited by Bergen Evans

Posted by: Vixentrox Mar 7 2005, 11:02 AM

QUOTE (Reach @ Mar 7 2005, 04:55 AM)

QUOTE (Rhodacat @ Mar 5 2005, 10:17 AM)

Actually I think he was hanged at Flossenburg. Not that it matters much...dead is dead.

Posted by: tete de merde Mar 7 2005, 11:13 AM

Eh, I find it unproductive, at best, to fixate on religion (or lack thereof) as a primary motivator for individuals who are known for being particularly bad or particularly good or whatever. The partially-hidden premise is "Look at Hitler/Stalin/Torquemada/Pol Pot. Christianity/atheism can do this to anyone." But even a cursory inspection reveals the falsity of such a statement - truly extreme individuals are extreme in a variety of ways and because of a variety of factors; most people are relatively balanced.

Posted by: Tocis Mar 8 2005, 12:04 AM

QUOTE (Lokmer @ Mar 7 2005, 07:56 PM)

QUOTE (Tocis @ Mar 6 2005, 11:42 PM)

Who was it again who said "Eternal vigilance is the price of freedom"? Ben Franklin?

"Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty." -- Wendell Phillips

Thanx

Posted by: Reach Mar 8 2005, 05:42 AM

QUOTE (Vixentrox @ Mar 7 2005, 11:02 AM)

QUOTE (Reach @ Mar 7 2005, 04:55 AM)

And what a shame that Dietrich Bonhoeffer failed in his attempt!

Of course, Hitler had him executed before a firing squad as a result.

Actually I think he was hanged at Flossenburg. Not that it matters much...dead is dead.

Thanks, Vixentrox. I stand corrected. (I'm not sure why but I have this firing squad image stuck in my mind.) Dietrich Bonhoeffer was executed by hanging with piano wire in the Flossenburg concentration camp on April 9, 1945.